Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Yeah, those Old Atheists were so much NICER...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 03:18 PM
Original message
Yeah, those Old Atheists were so much NICER...
Once again this week, we were treated to a bunch of whining about those awful Gnu Atheists.

Apparently, according to this argument: most atheists/religious skeptics used to be polite, inoffensive milquetoasts who sat around respectfully respecting the Sheer Awesomeness of religion...especially one particular brand of Western religion.

I went digging thru my books and Mr. Google, trying to find some of these 'umble, respectful atheists. I'm starting to suspect that either (a) they never existed or (b) they were all burned at the stake before we got to hear any of their polite, reasonable arguments.

What I found is summarized below. And yeah, yeah, nit-pickers, quibblers and Google-miners...I KNOW some of these people weren't atheists in the modern sense. But since many of their sentiments seem to agree exactly with those horrible Gnu Atheists, I have included them anyway. If you don't like it, ask me for a refund.

So now all I need is for DU's Learned Theologians to find me some of those nice, polite atheists. Because from what I've read, even the ancient skeptics were pretty snarky:

"Everything has a natural explanation. The moon is not a god but merely a great rock. And the sun is not a god but merely a hot rock." Anaxagoras, ca. 475 BCE (For that opinion, Anaxagoras was accused of "impiety" and nearly executed. Only his friendship with Pericles saved him, and he was exiled from Athens instead.)

"When I look upon seamen, men of physical science and philosophers, man is the wisest of all beings. When I look upon priests, prophets, and interpreters of dreams, nothing is as contemptible as man." - Diogenes (ca 412-323 BCE) (Another story says that when Diogenes killed a louse on the altar rail of a temple, he wisecracked: "Thus does Diogenes sacifice to all the gods at once.")

"When men became less credulous, the power of the Pythian Oracle vanished." - Cicero (106-43 BCE)

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” - Seneca (6 BCE-65 CE)

"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Ma'arri (ca 973-1057)

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." - Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." - Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826)

"The being cannot be termed rational or virtuous, who obeys any authority, but that of reason." Mary Wollstonecraft (1759-1797), "A Vindication of the Rights of Woman"

"A book is put into our hands when children, called the Bible, the purport of whose history is briefly this: That God made the earth in six days and there planted a delightful garden, in which He placed the first pair of human beings. In the midst of the garden He planted a tree, whose fruit, although within their reach, they were forbidden to touch. That the Devil, in the shape of a snake, persuaded them to eat of this fruit; in consequence of which God condemned both of them and their posterity yet unborn to satisfy His justice by their eternal misery. That, 4000 years after these events (the human race in the meantime having gone unredeemed to perdition), God engendered with the betrothed wife of a carpenter in Judaea (whose virginity was nevertheless uninjured), and begat a son, whose name was Jesus Christ; and who was crucified and died in order that no more men might be devoted to hell-fire...The book states, in addition, that the soul of whoever disbelieves this sacrifice will be burned with everlasting fire." - Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822), Notes to "Queen Mab;" Shelley also wrote "The Necessity of Atheism"

“All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of the few.” - Marie-Henri Beyle, a/k/a Stendahl (1783-1842)

I really like this next one...

"Some heathens whose Idol was greatly weatherworn threw it into a river, and erecting a new one, engaged in public worship at its base.
'What is this all about?' inquired the New Idol.
'Father of Joy and Gore,' said the High Priest, 'be patient and I will instruct you in the doctrines and rites of our holy religion.'
A year later, after a course of study in theology, the Idol asked to be thrown into the river, declaring himself an atheist.
'Do not let that trouble you,' said the High Priest. 'So am I!'
- Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914?), "Two Sceptics," Fantastic Fables

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." – Samuel Clemens (1835-1910)

"Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains." – Robert G. Ingersoll (1833–1899)

"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God. So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake…Religion is all bunk." – Thomas Edison (1847–1931)

"...not only had I got rid of the theology and the supernatural, but I had found the truth of evolution." Andrew Carnegie (1835-1919), in his autobiography

"I don’t believe in God because I don’t believe in Mother Goose." – Clarence Darrow (1857–1938)

"It will yet be the proud boast of women that they never contributed a line to the Bible." – George W. Foote (1850–1915)

"Consciously or unconsciously, most theists see in gods and devils, heaven and hell, reward and punishment, a whip to lash the people into obedience, meekness and contentment." - Emma Goldman (1869-1940)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some GREAT quotes there.
What was the source? I LIKE it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Thanks! Many sources, including some Actual Books!
Many came from 2000 Years of Disbelief by James Haught, which is a handy collection of quotes and history for non-believers:

http://www.amazon.com/2000-Years-Disbelief-Famous-Courage/dp/1573920673

(Google was a good source, too, of course.)

Some even came from my tattered, falling-apart paperback copy of Great Quotations by Georges Seldes. I've been lugging that thing around for...well, a long time! My father did construction and traveled a lot, so he was always bringing home books he found in motel rooms, etc. One weekend he brought that book home, when I was really young.

We lived right next door to you - in SC. Not far from the Fundamentalist Vatican, Bob Jones Univ. in Greenville, SC. Criticism or even questioning of Xianity was strictly verboten. Seldes' book introduced me to people like Robert Ingersoll, so it was a real eye-opener.

I went to the library to see how many of these mouthy infidels had died as a result of sudden lightning bolts. The answer was none, which just helped confirm some suspicions I was already having.

:evilgrin:





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very interesting! In this context, some people seem to be convinced that Britain has recently become
horribly secular, and that as a result we are all going (possibly literally) to hell in a handbasket. Here is a short British history quiz:

(1) Which British Prime Minister was described as "a man whose life reflects a genial paganism, who regarded all creeds with the impartiality of indifference, and who looked upon all religion as a local accident and as the result of hereditary influences" ... "a sceptic as regards religion"?

(2) Which bishop lamented that in England "Morality and religion have collapsed to a degree that has never been known in any Christian country"? And when?

(3) Which Prime Minister was described as follows: "(He) appeared to have no religious status. Looking over his life, there was no sign that he was a Christian. He appeared to believe in God, but it all ends there. As far as can be deciphered, (he) showed no interest in religion until (a colleague's) conversion. But even after that, all records have shown he had no interest in God or Jesus at all."

(4) Which Prime Minister stated that 'Too much religion of any kind is a bad thing'?

(5) Which Prime Minister stated 'I believe in the ethics of Christianity. Can't believe in the mumbo-jumbo'?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And answers to the questions above:
(1) Robert Walpole, Prime Minister from 1721-1743. Our first Prime Minister.

(2) Bishop Berkeley, in 1738.

(3) William Pitt, Prime Minister from 1783-1801.

(4) Winston Churchill, Prime Minister from 1940-1945, and 1951-1955

(5) Clement Attlee, Prime Minister from 1945-1951



While most of the above Prime Ministers (and many other Brits, then and now!) might be better described as extremely indifferent to religion, rather than explicitly atheist, we certainly have a long history of Prime Ministers who 'didn't do God'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. And not a one brayed about pedophilia or psychotic mothers.
Reading R/T is often like reading a comic book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Wow! It must really bother you that we condemn the Church's harboring of serial child rapists.
You consider it "braying" too. It's truly interesting that atheists making mention of the fact that the RCC has hidden serial child rapists and worked to prevent victims from coming forward irritates you. I admit I'm at a loss to understand why you seem find mention of that heinous reality to be bad behavior.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I've read Cicero and you're no Cicero.
Not even a George W. Foote.

The OP attempts a comparison in rhetoric, not substance. It fails.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Good comeback!
It'd be even better if I had ever claimed to be equivalent to Cicero.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Just as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. The OP is a collection of more-or-less chronological quotes.
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 06:14 PM by onager
Attempting nothing more than to show that Old Atheists were just as snarky as Gnu Atheists.

Your attempt to find a rhetoric seminar in there also failed.

Next time I'll put in more Bakunin, Marx and Stalin. That should cheer you up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Comparing the snark of "gnu" atheists to the rhetoric of those people is a joke.
And I do prefer quotes from Marx to excerpts of DoD contracts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. He is supermad, lol.
Keep up the good work!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Care to elaborate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. This from the king
of non-elaboration and meaningless one liners.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. This, from an epigone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I think you hit a nerve.
Sweet Jesus, the responses like that are hillarious and sad at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Wha is "hillarious"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hillarious AND sad.
No need to replay your words, they are there for all to see.

Hilarious and sad, at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Another empty snipe, intending knowledge, revealing only attitude.
It's tedious.

Congrats on correcting your spelling. Third time's the charm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. It's nice to see you confirm my suspicion about hitting that nerve.
:rofl:

Plucked like a guitar string, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You engender an olfactory response, not a neurological one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Then I strongly suggest you check your undies, for what you smell is both local and organic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you for a living demonstration of what is wrong with the OP.
On the one hand, there is Diogenes, Cicero and Seneca.

On the other hand, there is . . . . cleanhippie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Don't count yourself out!
As the master of one-line dismissive responses, you could endeavor to raise the bar through behavior.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Exhibit 2.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thank you for that confirmation. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. You're welcome. Thank you for the evidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. There is also a long tradition of hostility to New Atheists..
or indeed rather old atheists. Over 200 years old:

'Last of the Anointed five behold, and least,
The Directorial Lama, Sovereign Priest,—
Lepaux: whom athiests worship; at whose nod
Bow their meek heads the men without a God.<18>


Ere long, perhaps, to this astonish'd Isle,
Fresh from the shores of subjugated Nile,
Shall Buonaparte's victor fleet protect
The genuine Theo-philanthropic sect,—
The sect of Marat, Mirabeau, Voltaire,—
Led by their pontiff, good La Reveillere.
—Rejoiced our Clubs shall greet him, and install
The holy Hunch-back in thy dome, St. Paul!
While countless votaries thronging in his train
Wave their Red Caps, and hymn this jocund strain:


"Courier's and Stars, Sedition's Evening Host,
"Thou Morning Chronicle, and Morning Post,
"Whether ye make the Rights of man your theme,
"Your Country Libel, and your God blaspheme,
"Or dirt on private worth and virtue throw,
"Still blasphemous or blackguard, praise Lepaux!


"And ye five other wandering Birds, that move
"In sweet accord of harmony and love,
"Coleridge and Southey, Lloyd, and Lambe and Co.
"Tune all your mystic harps to praise Lepaux!


"Priestley and Wakefield, humble holy men,
"Give praises to his name with tongue and pen!
"Thelwall, and ye that lecture as ye go,
"And for your pains get pelted, praise Lepaux!
"Praise him each Jacobin, or fool, or knave,
"And your cropp'd heads in sign of worship wave!


"All creeping creatures, venomous and low,
"Paine, Williams, Godwin, Holcroft, praise Lepaux!
"——— and ——— with ——— join'd,
"And every other beast after his kind.


"And thou, Leviathan! on ocean's brim
"Hugest of living things that sleep and swim;
"Thou, in whose nose by Burke's gigantic hand
"The hook was fix'd to drag thee to the land
"With, ———, and ——— in thy train,
"And ——— wallowing in the yeasty main,
"Still as ye snort, and puff, and spout, and blow,
"In puffing, and in spouting, praise Lepaux!' ...


Guard we but our own hearts: with constant view
To ancient morals, ancient manners true,
True to their manlier virtues, such as nerved
Our father's breasts, and this proud Isle preserved
For many a rugged age:—and scorn the while,—
Each philosophic atheist's specious guile—
The soft seductions, the refinements nice,
Of gay morality, and easy vice:
So shall we brave the storm: our 'stablish'd power
Thy refuge, Europe, in some happier hour....'


From 'The New Morality' a long poem by George Canning, Tory politician, published in 1798. At that time, the French Revolution and its values held the same sort of place as perceived threat to established morality that 'Communism' and 'multiculturalism' would hold in later years. The whole poem is interesting as an indication that fears of a decline in traditional values; of what would later be called 'moral relativism'; of insidious infiltration by dangerous foreign ideas; and of a decline in patriotism and 'manly virtues' were common to conservatives of the late 18th, as of the early 21st, century. As I always say: 'Things ain't what they used to be - and they never were!'



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Great Googling. Thanks!
Probably few if any of the clamorously self-professed Republicans of today, are aware that Robert Ingersoll was a prominent figure in the late 19th century Republican Party. Or that Ayn Rand was an avowed atheist!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. And, just like dry oak, they burned better. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fantastic post, onager.
Clearly it struck a nerve, so even better!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
33. Great post. Wish I could rec it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
34. I'm sure someone will find some nice bible quotes to prove you wrong
Because you know, finding nasty horrible judgemental sayings in the Bible proves ones superiority.... :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC