Catholic clergy join 10,000 in demonstrating for dalit rights in India

[rug]

NEW DELHI – A rally by Christians and Muslims demanding equal rights for their dalit members blocked traffic in the main streets of the capital for several hours July 28.

More than 10,000 people, including a Catholic cardinal, bishops, priests and religious women from across India braved intense heat to march more than three miles from a park to the Indian parliament.

The march capped a four-day protest that began July 25 with a fast organized by the National Coordination Committee for Dalit Christians, a joint program of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India and the National Council of Churches in India.

Dalit means “broken open” in Sanskrit and denotes people formerly known as untouchables in India’s multitiered caste system.

http://catholicreview.org/subpages/storyworldnew-new.aspx?action=10348

[madrchsod]

1. what? christians and muslims helping the poor?

i`ve read somewhere that christians and muslims do`t do those sorts of things. if i could only remember where i read that......

[emilyg]

2. ...

:hi:

[Vehl]

3. Most of these are funded by Mega Churches, aimed at converting the "heathens"

Millions of $ are spent on conversion efforts by evangelical, and other Christian/Islamic organizations in India. The funds mostly come from America/Europe.


What exactly are these people protesting about? sure there is some discrimination against dalits, but there is also heavy Pro-Dalit laws in India...for example Dalit students are allocated a huge % of university seats in India..seats they could get admitted to even if they perform much poorly on the exams than their counterparts. Funnily enough..a considerable number of Dalits are well off financially..yet they still enjoy the affirmative-action benefits due to their "Dalit" Status...all the while they could afford expensive tutors and whatnot. On the other hand, poor and non-dalit kids still have to get higher scores on exams than even their rich Dalit counterparts to gain access to the university. Some discrimination indeed!

Furthermore little do people know that the Father of the Indian constitution is a Dalit (not a Catholic though..he was smart enough to be a Buddhist).Gandhi and Nehru...both so called "high caste Hindus" these Catholic's rant about, asked a Dalit to write India's constitution! India has had Dalit presidents, Prime ministers...and has dozens of Dalit members of parliament.

These voicing of support by Christian "leaders" is but a ploy to get more converts. They use any means to "save more souls" and reap a great "harvest in Asia".

In fact during the Tsunami time, Christian missionary organizations were trying to convert people who were victims of the tsunami....as they always do..descending on the grieving people like a pack of jackals..offering monetary and other comforts. (thanks to their Evangelical/catholic missionary org funded deep pockets)

When I entered one of the rows of temporary shelters built for tsunami victims in Pattancherry village in Nagapattinam, I witnessed a minor scuffle in a corner.

Some inmates had surrounded a Christian priest and two nuns, and a war of words was going on.

"We are Hindus and we want to live as Hindus. Why do you want to convert us?" some young men shouted at the missionaries.

The priest said, "We are not here to convert people. We were only offering prayers for your peace of mind."

But flashing some pamphlets distributed among them by the three, the inmates snorted, "What does this mean?"

The priest had no answer

more here
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jan/24shoba.htm

This entire notion of somehow one version of "god" is superior to everything else in the world is anathema to Indian mind. Hinduism (and its sister philosophies like Buddhism/Jainism) posit that there cannot a single true way. How could there be only way true way when there are billions of different/unique humans out there? to claim that Christianity/Islam is the only way to god/salvation/whatnot is as stupid as claiming that everyone has to wear the same colored t-shirt..or they are wrong!...and will spend an eternity in hell :))


Even after nearly 400 years of concerted conversion attempts, only ~2% of Indians are Christian...and as more and more people get educated...and as the economy improves and people become more aware, the numbers of converts drops faster and faster. This explains the frantic efforts by Christian/Catholic missionaries to latch on to the calls for "rights" of whatever. Its funny that they call for the "rights" of certain people while campaigning strongly against the rights of women to have an abortion...and the right of atheists to ensure the separation of church and state. Hypocrisy at its best!


We Indian people have a civilization, culture and philosophy which is second to none...we never tried to push our religion down the throats of others...the countries of south-east Asia adopted Hinduism, and later Buddhism of their own will, compare it to the Catholic conquest of the Americas and the crusades...of the Islamic invasions....of child abuses by the church...and these people think they have the gall to talk about "rights". Such protesters should be ignored the way they are being ignored today. Good riddance I say! Let them make this last gasp to be heard before they fade away from history.



"Civilizations have arisen in other parts of the world. In ancient and modern times, wonderful ideas have been carried forward from one race to another...But mark you, my friends, it has been always with the blast of war trumpets and the march of embattled cohorts. Each idea had to be soaked in a deluge of blood..... Each word of power had to be followed by the groans of millions, by the wails of orphans, by the tears of widows. This, many other nations have taught; but India for thousands of years peacefully existed. Here activity prevailed when even Greece did not exist... Even earlier, when history has no record, and tradition dares not peer into the gloom of that intense past, even from until now, ideas after ideas have marched out from her, but every word has been spoken with a blessing behind it and peace before it. We, of all nations of the world, have never been a conquering race, and that blessing is on our head, and therefore we live....!"
~ Vivekananda

[Odin2005]

4. Yuck! I hate when the god-botherers take advantage of disaster victims!

[Vehl]

7. Yep, they do it all the time.

Flush with funds from the Mega Churches in America and Europe. This is the main reason that anti-Missionary feelings are high in many south Asian countries.

They converge on people and places affected by disaster/war/etc etc and provide monetary assistance (they have no shortage of funds!)

There was a thread on this on DU some years back (2005)

Villagers furious with Christian Missionaries (no jesus, no food)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3099180

Rage and fury has gripped this tsunami-hit tiny Hindu village in India's southern Tamil Nadu after a group of Christian missionaries allegedly refused them aid for not agreeing to follow their religion.

Samanthapettai, near the temple town of Madurai, faced near devastation on the December 26 when massive tidal waves wiped it clean of homes and lives.

Most of the 200 people here are homeless or displaced , battling to rebuild lives and locating lost family members besides facing risks of epidemic,disease and trauma.

Jubilant at seeing the relief trucks loaded with food, clothes and the much-needed medicines the villagers, many of who have not had a square meal in days, were shocked when the nuns asked them to convert before distributing biscuits and water.

Heated arguments broke out as the locals forcibly tried to stop the relief trucks from leaving. The missionaries, who rushed into their cars on seeing television reporters and the cameras refusing to comment on the incident and managed to leave the village.

Disappointed and shocked into disbelief the hapless villagers still await aid.

"Many NGOs (volunteer groups) are extending help to us but there in our village the NGO, which was till now helping us is now asking us to follow the Christian religion. We are staunch followers of Hindu religion and refused their request. And after that these people with their aid materials are leaving the village without distributing that to us," Rajni Kumar, a villager said.

The incident is an exception to concerted charity in a catastrophe that has left no one untouched.(ANI)

They tried similar methods in Srilanka also, trying to convert Buddhist/Hindu victims of the tsunami by promising aid if they converted.

In south Asia there is an age old term for those who converted during the colonial era. "Rice Converts". This term came to be because those days people who converted were given sacks of rice (especially during famines...famines perpetrated by the policies of the East India company which wanted "Cash" crops and not 'Wheat/rice" ).

Nowadays these sacks of rice has been replaced by Money, and other items, but the goal is the same.


Imho people who go about seeking to convert others have a ways to go in the human evolutionary ladder...they are similar to the KKK guys who thought anti-miscegenation was evil..or those who thought whites were better than blacks... The notion that one religion(Hinduism is not a "religion" in the Abrahamic-religion sense..more of a way of life) is the correct one while everything else is false reeks of similar backwardness.

[rug]

5. "sure there is some discrimination against dalits'"

What do you mean by "some"?

[Vehl]

6. Was that meant to be a reply to my post?

I assume it is.

Dalit's do face discrimination, but often not anymore than than the one's faced by others. Furthermore they are beneficiaries of the Affirmative action policies enacted by the government. I guess the Catholics can gripe about the discrimination faced by Catholic Dalits AFTER we see a non-catholic minority head of state in Catholic majority countries( India has had Dalit heads of states).

While they are at it...why the double standards for "rights"? In order not to be hypocrites, the Catholics/Christian/Muslim Missionaries should also fight for the "rights" of women to have an abortion, for couples to have same sex marriages, and for atheists to ensure the separation of church and state. So the Dalit Christians have "rights" but women, same sex couples and Atheists dont?

The last thing I would heed is the whining of people who are HIGHLY discriminatory/fight to suppress the rights to minorities while asking for the "rights" of people whom they think they have a chance to convert. Why the double standards? and why the selective response to my post? Would be better if you addressed the questions I raised in my previous post.



btw, for your kind info

Reservation is available to Dalits who follow Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism, but Dalit Christians and Muslims are not protected as castes under Indian Reservation policy.The Indian constitution in 1950 abolished untouchability, converting those castes to scheduled castes and tribes: in doing so it also provided a system of affirmative action (called the Reservation Policy) whereby 22.5 percent of all government and semi government jobs including seats in Parliament and state legislatures were reserved for those in those castes, the law also set aside space for admission to schools and colleges. In 1980 the constitutional policy was extended to cover the rest of the 3,743 backward castes in the country. But Christians who claim to belong to no cast are not included in the quotas, meaning those Dalits who convert to Christianity are no longer part of the affirmative action program run by the government. Dalit Christians have now appealed to the government to extend the benefits of reservation policy to Dalit Christians in order to improve their employment opportunities.<14> In 2008, a study commissioned by the National Commission for Minorities suggested extension of reservation to Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians.

^^ ironic. dont you think? especially the part where Dalits who converted to Christianity and claim that they have no "caste" still want to get the benefits of affirmative action for the disadvantaged castes? a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Cheers :)

[rug]

8. Yes, it was.

Although this article is eight years old, is it either inaccurate or out of date?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0602_030602_untouchables.html

I am not particularly impressed by arguments that discrimination is outlawed, given the 60 years following Brown v. Bd of Ed in the U.S.

To the extent Dalit discrimination persists, do you reject the support of Muslims and Catholics, or any other religion for that matter?

[Vehl]

11. I'm oppossed to it because I dislike hypocrisy

It's no secret that that untold Millions in money is pored into India by these churches to support the so called "disadvantaged" people. Make no mistake though..they are after one thing and one thing only...to convert people.

As I said, Dalits face discrimination, however its no more than what non-dalit people sometimes face in India. Furthermore not only ahs the government made this illegal, but has bent over backwards to reserve a huge % of seats in universities and jobs for Dalits. Dont u think 22-30% of ANY given field reserved for Dalits alone is not a massive pro-Dalit measure taken by the government? No other group even comes close to having such benefits in India.

And yes I reject the support of Muslims and Catholics for the simple reason that its hypocritical. Being hypocritical (as I explained in my previous posts...opposing same-sex marriages..opposing abortion..opposing separation of church and state) is worse than not even lifting a finger to help these people. Not only does it scare away people who are truly interested in social justice (not for the potential "harvests of souls") but also undermines the Dalit claims because of the duplicity exhibited by its supporters.


If I were to go about claiming that African-Americans should have the same rights as White-Americans BUT same-sex couples should never be allowed to marry, will any sane, logical person ever support my cause? nope. Its as simple as that.

[okasha]

9. Why is anyone a "dalit"

in a modern democracy?

[Vehl]

12. Cos they need that "title" to have the government benefits

of nearly 30% allocation in University/Jobs

Ironically a lot of "Dalits" who gain entrance to UNiversity/Jobs based on these affirmative-action quotas are economically well off than their non-Dalit counterparts. The system is broken yet the government still has it because it does not want to be seen as enacting "anti-dalit" laws...even though it would only be reforming a system being taken advantage of by people who call themselves Dalit for the benefits.

In fact in India you see this amazing spectacle of people fighting for the right to be listed as "Dalits/secluded castes" by the government just so they can get these very lucrative benefits!!

What beggars belief is that the so called "Dalits" who are Christian/muslim also want such quotas. The reason they supposedly "joined" those religions was because they do not have caste (Hinduism doesn't have caste either..its an antiquated social system..similar to the feudal system of Europe..and caste system also exists amongst south Asian Buddhists, Christians and Muslims..but people somehow associate it with Hinduism due to lack of knowledge) yet want to get the benefits the government allows for Dalits(dalits who are not Christian and Muslim..cos they cease to be "Dalits" when they convert).

Mahatma Gandhi called them Harijan (Children of Hari(god))instead of Dalits and along with Nehru (the first PM of India) requested Ambedkar, a prominent Dalit leader to write the constitution of India!. Imagine what a revolutionary idea it was at that time. Can anyone imagine one of the founding fathers allowing an African American to write the American constitution? Gandhi and Nehru, along with the rest of the Indian national congress leaders, were visionaries and were pro equality. This is why India has had Dalit PM's, Presidents, and chief ministers of many states. (Amongst these is Ms Mayawati...one of the most corrupt politician in all of Indian history). The term "Dalit" nowadays is mostly used just so they can get the affirmative action benefits.

[cleanhippie]

10. Maybe they could demonstrate how to obtain and use condoms while at it.