WTF is it with the new Militant "Christians?"

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

I just saw this advert at a conservative site and nearly fell out of my chair. I read it as "You fuck with my shit and I'll kill you."

Nuts.

[niyad]

1. I don't care where they pray--SILENTLY

[moc]

2. Who's saying they can't pray?

Just don't make everyone else do it.

[bloom]

3. As if people are stopping them

what nonsense.

[nookiemonster]

4. Well, one would think that the fucktards could take

all that pent up anger and put it on the battlefield.

"Persecute at your own peril"
:rofl:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. I guess they're from the Jesus was a Rambo sect?

[madeline_con]

13. "Persecute at your own peril"

I take it as them saying the wrath of god will befall you! :eyes:

[MisterP]

6. give me a "P" gimme an "H" gimme an "A" "R-I-S-E-E" whassit spell?!

[Broken_Hero]

7. I have no clue honestly...

Maybe its just pent up frustration and rage, but who knows...

[drb]

8. It sounds to me like, "I'll kick your ass - just...

...like Jesus did!"

:sarcasm:

[kestrel91316]

9. They are Christofascists, and they disobey Jeebus when they

refuse to go into their closets and pray in silence as he commanded.

[ChoralScholar]

28. Far be it from me to quote the Bible here, but

the Fundies seem to ignore this verse:

"when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (Mt 6:5)"

Does anything in that verse sound like it supports school prayer? Or public invocations? I didn't think so.

[nemo137]

36. Don't look so surprised, they also ignore Jesus when he talks about

church and state (render unto Caesar, etc), and how to treat the poor (whatever you do to the least of these), and greed (don't store up riches on earth, where rust and moth consume).

Really, they don't know they asses from they ankles. They're the ones in church who spout off loudly at coffee hour or wednesday dinner, and every one around them sort of looks embarassed on their behalf.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. And this is why they piss me off so fucking much

the useless braindead fuckbags.

NO ONE - ANYWHERE - is stopping them from praying at any time, in any situation, whether on their own property or public property or even at work.

But these assholes feel that, unless the CEO or the principal, etc., gives them the bullhorn or the microphone to the all-building PA system so that the entire population has to pray with them, that they are being persecuted and told they "can't pray".

And they just keep pushing the lie, and lying and lying and lying and lying and lying...saying that (and I have heard this), they're "starting to wonder when the ACLU will make it illegal to pray in churches".

[WindRavenX]

15. EXACTLY

Nailed it spot on, as usual, Rabrrrrr.

Who the fuck is gonna stop people from praying? :wtf:

[TechBear_Seattle]

25. Bullseye.

If they are not allowed to mandate their own personal beliefs, then they are being persecuted. If they are not allowed to force everyone on campus to bow their heads when told and pray as directed, they are not being allowed to pray.

Fanaticism at it's finest. :banghead:

[madeline_con]

11. This myth that someone's stopping them is bull...

and I keep seeing it mentioned on fundie sites and TV shows.

I guess some of them are stupid enough to believe it.

[Maat]

12. Where this comes from is ultra-rich people like Scaife and Ahmanson ..

who give to these causes.

First of all, they give to legal organizations like the Alliance Defense Fund, who have a rabidly rightwing conservative Christian slant. They have their own version of Christianity, and anyone who doesn't agree with it isn't Christian, per their authors' columns.

These legal organizations basically encourage people to report any interference with their prosyletizing (e.g. bullying). The legal organizations frequently offer to represent the plaintiff for free; they are in it for reputation enhancement (and to drive the USA towards theocracy, in which presumably they will play key roles.

Info. on the Alliance Defense Fund:
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx ,
and on Liberty Counsel:
www.lc.org .

I research the Religious Hardright, and I did not see this sort of thing until other sites starting publicizing these suits. One can see examples of many of these 'you're interfering with my right to shove my conservative Christian beliefs down your throat during recess" types of legal actions:
www.agapepress.org .


That site - I've frequently thought of registering just to see what they are saying.

[Rex]

14. Ya really wanna know? They smell the New Crusade.

These 'Christians' are somewhat docile as compared to their past ancestors. Be thankful.

"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." Deuteronomy 12:2-3

During one Crusade, they killed everyone in the city of Jerusalem. Blood ran through the streets as every living creature was slaughtered.

Their ancestors killed everyone in the city of Jericho, long before the Crusades. Very, very bloody. It is in the Fundie blood cell to become angry and dangerous IMO. I'm related to enough of them so I should know.

[Union Thug]

and all for the prince of peace

Pathetic: the whole bloody lot of them.

[Rex]

23. Prince of Peace

In His name! It makes me ill! I want to vomit when I think about all the blood shed, 'in His name'. Reap the land, harvest the day. Mercy, sympathy and at the heart; unconditional love. Not on this fucking planet. No sir.

[gumby]

16. "Jesus Plus Nothing"

I've read this article several times and still don't get it; just like I don't get the above graphic. http://www.harpers.org/JesusPlusNothing.html

Is really as simple as the neo-fascists using Jesus as their mascot?

[catbert836]

30. No, it isn't that simple.

Right now, our country is being run by three main forces: Neo-Conservatism (that prompted the Iraq war and others, if it gets the chance), Big Business (which has repealed environmental and ergonomics laws) and Fundamentalist Christianity (which is behind ID and responsible for handing Bush the 2004 election). Although Jesus is the "mascot" of Fundie Xtianity, he doesn't even come close to being the mascot for the other two. In my view, saying that our government is neo-fascists using Jesus as their mascot is way to simplistic, because many of them are scared to death by their fellow travelers (the fundies) and on the other hand, I think most fundies fervently believe what they're saying.

[CatholicEdHead]

37. Mascot = Figurehead created for maketing purposes

it is that simple. It is not about faith, but power.

[rockymountaindem]

31. That article is really, really scary.

:scared:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

17. persecute? -keeping a lid on their infringment upon others is persecution?

They just want to force everyone to pray in school----most say no--they say that's persecution?

They just want to claim formally that this is a "Kristchen Nation--most say no--they say that's persecution?

They want the Ten Commandments engraved on our court blds--but rarely do the
"leaders" follow any of them--and many point that out--that's persecution?

Websters Dictionary must be wrong

[nookiemonster]

18. God....shakes.....head.....

"You batshit crazies don't speak for me. STFU before I smite your sorry asses"

[MnFats]

19. if you want a good scare, go to their website...

...
www.christian-underground.com


really really frightening...


fuckers copped their name from us, too.

[Az]

20. Our society is progressive, secular, and relativistic

Their view of such a society is that it is oppressive to their beliefs.

In the short term there may not be clashes. But as a tolerant and progressive society and a fixed dogmatic society travel the road together they become increasingly seperated from each other. Our diverse society and its demands of tolerance clash with the dogmatic claims of moral authority from their camp.

As we continue to dominate them and they become increasingly insensed at the corruption of the society there will come a time where they refuse to take it any more. This is the point at which the social contract disintergrates. This is where we are now.

The religious right has given up trying to abide by the rules of the society we promote. In their fury they cannot see the sense and reason we see. They are running on emotion and rage. They see themself as being oppressed and silenced. It doesn't matter that they completely get it wrong. They are beyond reason. They are in full war mode.

[nookiemonster]

21. "They are in full war mode."

Well, by all means pseudo-Christians, BRING IT ON!

Or are you just gonna sit there and bleed.

[mestup]

24. Like religious groups before them, maybe the Hard Right should set sail.

Since our Constitution mandates no central religious governing authority, perhaps these followers of the Christian Right wing should consider seeking a new land in which to practice their religious beliefs, free of societal oppression.

It's not like it's never been done before.
:-)

[Az]

26. It would be the same reason

The Puritans fled England because they were being restricted in how they practiced their exclusionary beliefs. It is seeming to be a repeat.

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Fear Not, Oh My Brothers

These "Christians" are so insecure in their faiths that they need to puff up and pound on their chests. The modern-day Cult of the Militant Virgin is usually part of this nonsense, too.

Their day of Penance -- not Judgement, not Damnation, but Penance -- is at hand. It will be difficult to see that their vision of Jesus is a false idol, but all idols fall.

In fact, if you follow the modern Christian movement, you will see that the sea-change started a few years ago. The Thug-Ass Jesus cult is living on borrowed time, running on fumes, and taking its last gasp.

--p!

[wtmusic]

27. as if people give a crap where you pray

Topic of discussion on their website:

"Questions Christians ask: How can I be happy?"

A: Give up your dependence on dogma, for a start. :rofl:

[NMMNG]

29. When I saw that several months ago I sent them an e-mail

I told them nobody was stopping them from praying anywhere, they just had some limits on where they could pray out loud, and who they could force to pray along with them. For some reason they never printed it :shrug:.

[Maat]

35. Actually, the issue is government sponsorship of religion ..

compelling people who are not hardright-fundamentalist-Christians to pay (through their tax dollars) for erection and/or maintenance of hardright-fundamentalist-Christian symbols, as they are forced to view such symbols in government settings.

That is what would be and is unconstitutional.

So, never let them switch the issue from government sponsorship of religion to a freedom-of-expression-related issue.

They are perfectly free to pray during recess, speak to another in the public square about faith, and to hold a sign up on a public sidewalk (as long as they comply with time, place and manner regulations -e.g. permits or whatever).

So, let's repeat, "IT IS GOVERNMENT SPONSORSHIP OF RELIGION THAT IS THE ISSUE."

That is what I emailed them about.

Sorry, end-of-rant. :rant:

Fellow DUers, since you believe in separation of church and state, I salute you.

:patriot:

[NAO]

32. Is there an expiration date on the Xtian Persecution Complex?

Jon Stewart asked on the Daily Show. As he pointed out, they (xtians) have been in control of well...EVERTHING, ever since about...that guy Constantine, which was in, oh about...300 AD!

[NAO]

33. If you think it's bad now, take a look at how they were a few hundred yrs

ago. From Robert G. Ingersoll's Heretics and Heresies:

"Give any orthodox church the power, and to-day they would punish heresy with whip, and chain, and fire. As long as a church deems a certain belief essential to salvation, just so long it will kill and burn if it has the power. Why should the church pity a man whom her God hates? Why should she show mercy to a kind and noble heretic whom her God will burn in eternal fire? Why should a Christian be better than his God? It is impossible for the imagination to conceive of a greater atrocity than has been perpetrated by the church. Every nerve in the human body capable of pain has been sought out and touched."

"Let it be remembered that all churches have persecuted heretics to the fullest extent of their power. Toleration has increased only when and where the power of the church has diminished. From Augustine until now the spirit of the Christians has remained the same. There has been the same intolerance, the same undying hatred of all who think for themselves, and the same determination to crush out of the human brain all knowledge inconsistent with an ignorant creed..."

"In those days the cross and rack were inseparable companions. Across the open Bible lay the sword and fagot. Not content with burning such heretics as were alive, they even tried the dead, in order that the church might rob their wives and children. The property of all heretics was confiscated, and on this account they charged the dead with being heretical -- indicted, as it were, their dust -- to the end that the church might clutch the bread of orphans. Learned divines discussed the propriety of tearing out the tongues of heretics before they were burned, and the general opinion was, that this ought to be done so that the heretics should not be able, by uttering blasphemies, to shock the Christians who were burning them. With a mixture of ferocity and Christianity, the priests insisted that heretics ought to be burned at a slow fire, giving as a reason that more time was given them for repentance...."

"According to the theologians, God, the Father of us all, wrote a letter to his children. The children have always differed somewhat as to the meaning of this letter. In consequence of these honest differences, these brothers began to cut out each other's hearts. In every land, where this letter from God has been read, the children to whom and for whom it was written have been filled with hatred and malice. They have imprisoned and murdered each other, and the wives and children of each other. In the name of God every possible crime has been committed, every conceivable outrage has been perpetrated. Brave men, tender and loving women, beautiful girls, and prattling babes have been exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ. For more than fifty generations the church has carried the black flag. Her vengeance has been measured only by her power. During all these years of infamy no heretic has ever been forgiven. With the heart of a fiend she has hated; with the clutch of avarice she has grasped; with the jaws of a dragon she has devoured; pitiless as famine, merciless as fire, with the conscience of a serpent: such is the history of the Church of God."

Yep, that's how those who "love their enemies" and "turn the other cheek" have treated those who disagree with them. If they continue to get uppity, and seize more political power, we are in deep doo-doo.

Robert G. Ingersoll's Heretics and Heresies
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/heretics_and_hericies.html

[shrike]

34. We're becoming a hysterical society

Some of the sanest folk I know are African-American -- they sort of have this zen-quality, like they know the man is out to get them and the struggle will never end.

Them aside, I see this attitude in many people. The whole country has a persecution complex. Right now I'm covering municipal government for a local paper. No religious issues here. But I really see a hysteria, a persecution complex among residents and some of the elected officials. Anyone who disagrees with me is out to get me. There's a conspiracy, against me and mine. Anyone who opposes my point of view needs to be "taken down." And on the surface, this is a pretty normal town.

It's a bit to disconcerting to watch all this, to say the least.

[mzteris]

38. New? "Onward Christian Soldiers"

is an oldie......

Maybe they're just regirding their loins for the new Crusade against the godless heathens.

[Inland]

39. The pretense of persecution is a common tactic, and not just among fundies

A pretense to persecution provides the following:

It compliments the pretender, who adheres to his position regardless of persecution.

It creates a label of bigotry and prejudice to slap on the "other".

It creates a number of strawman issues meant to provoke and inflame anger on both sides.

Of course, I've been freely pointing out atheists that take the same tactic here on DU. It's not limited to fundies.

[really annoyed]

41. self-delete

[really annoyed]

42. Huh?

I guess I don't read the posts you do?

:shrug:

But from what I have seen, "Christian" persecution is usually imaginary - such as this prayer thing. You can pray freely anywhere you want.. But why people would want to pray at the mall, I don't know!

I mean, I guess we don't have enough churches to pray in? :eyes:
Parents too lazy to raise their children correctly, so they want the government to step in and "teach" them how to pray and what religion they should follow?

It's not easy being an open atheist - our society and government is made for Christianity and its adherents.

This is not limited to atheists. I mean, look what Muslims go through.

My oldest niece and nephew are Muslim. They attend public school. Who knows what kind of friction they could see in the future?

I can remember after 9/11, my niece was ashamed to admit that her dad was from the Middle East - all because the children at school bullied her about it.

[Inland]

43. So what's your point?

My point was that sometimes people pretend they are persecuted as a means of self justification and validation. That doesn't mean that persecution doesn't actually happen. Sometimes it happens, but sometimes it doesn't.

[really annoyed]

40. Reminds me of a billboard I saw on the freeway...

I was driving to a concert in Michigan.

I was on the outskirts of Detroit, and I saw this billboard... It said something to the effect of "put prayer back in Detroit's public schools."

Nice, but I think public schools in Detroit need a lot more than prayer!