faith is really a wonderful thing

[bertha katzenengel]

One of the attorneys for whom my cellmate works just returned from Italy. She brought my cellmate, Amy, a rosary from the Vatican. The rosary had been blessed by Pope Benedict.

To say that Amy's a devout Catholic is an understatement. When her boss handed her the rosary, the room lit up - Amy was absolutely radiant. When her boss said the Pope had blessed it, I'd swear she almost fainted.

I grew up Baptist, and was taught that, if Catholicism wasn't a cult, at least it contained within itself a mini-cult: the "cult of Mary." Even though I've rejected the idea of faith in a deity for myself, it was still hard to understand Amy's reaction. Some things linger even when one escapes from a state of blind acceptance.

It was very strange to see just a rosary move this woman so much.

OTOH, I understand it very well. I don't have time to explain how. Suffice to say that I have had deep, all-encompassing faith like Amy's, and I have to tell you that it is extremely comforting to believe in something or someone who is all-powerful and who loves you and is always taking care of you.

I'm glad for people who have such faith. I don't begrudge them their faith. Whether it's completely blind or, as in my beloved's case, tempered with reality, it's really a wonderful thing. It's probably good for their health, too. I'll bet it lowers the blood pressure.

I am not offended when someone says they'll pray for me - as Amy often does. My beloved, Mrs. V., participates in several prayer circles. When friends at work confide big troubles to me, I sometimes ask her to send those troubles to her circles. I think that participation strengthens her faith. And it helps the ones being prayed for to know I've done this (but I only do it, and only tell them, if they have this faith, too).

I have another friend at work, Treena, who is a fundamentalist evangelical Christian. Because of some apparent early miscommunication that I've never cleared up, I think she thinks I am one, too. I let her talk to me as if I am a fundy. If we have lunch together she says a prayer first. These things do not offend me. And I sent her a religious card when she was hit by a cab last week. I asked Mrs. V. if she thought I was a hypocrite for doing so. I often feel like a hypocrite when it comes to this casual friendship with Treena. But she knows I am a lesbian and that at the least I am agnostic (I waver between that and pure atheism) and she doesn't seem bothered by the knowledge.

I've given bits & pieces of my religious background on DU, usually in the Lounge. As I said above, I grew up Baptist. I went to a Baptist college. At 23 I entered several years of crisis, and that's when I rejected my faith. I've wavered since then. After I came out, I attended a Metropolitan Community Church for a while. But that didn't last long.

I have changed immeasurably since my days as a fundy. My experience and my agnosticism don't stop me from accepting that faith in a deity - faith like Amy's and Treena's and even a mellower faith like my beloved's - is good for the believers.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I think it was sweet that you sent your coworker a religious themed card

after all,you did it to honor HER, to show sympathy in a way that she would understand.

[bertha katzenengel]

6. I appreciate that.

I do try to relate to her on her terms. But I struggle every time I talk with her. Hypocrite? Not hypocrite? Or am I just a liar? It's a big internal fight.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. How does it feel in your heart?

If in talking to the person, your heart feels at ease, then go ahead. If you have a constricted, "ugh" feeling, then don't. The mind loves to play the game of "to do or not to do", but the heart doesn't play games, if you are still enough and listen.

[applegrove]

2. They've done studies. They thought that real religious types might

be more inclined to madness. Actually there are two types of religious (and it is pretty obvious when you meet people which they are). Some are intrinsic. Some extrinsic (they do it for the rewards outside their faith). Turns out the intrinsically religious (Carter, your friends etc.) are less prone to madness than anyone on the planet. Next come agnostics or atheists. Then the extrinsic religious are the scariest bunch of all and live & struggle with their demons more than anyone.

Thought that was interesting. And very true in my experience.

[bertha katzenengel]

7. fascinating

It would be interesting to read about this. Do you know of any resources?

[applegrove]

9. It was posted here a week or two ago? I'll look. n/t

[bertha katzenengel]

10. thanks, I appreciate that so much -- I don't come to this forum

very often :hi:

[applegrove]

11. Cannot seem to find it? But look up intrinsic & extrinsic on google with

religion & sanity and you should find some talk of self-actualization and the like. You may find the actual article there.

Hmm - I was going to save that article too! Sorry - maybe I read it somewhere else..

[papau]

3. Thanks for a very nice post - Stay mellow! :-)

:toast:

:-)

[Shell Beau]

4. I think that is beautiful!

Thanks for sharing!! :hug:

[shrike]

5. Nice

Faith, for many people, is an emotional thing. A feeling, A yearning, a desire, whatever, to connect with the unknowable -- the divine, if you will.

Some people don't have that desire, and others seek to understand the universe, rather than connect with it. You don't reason yourself into faith, and I really don't think you reason yourself out of it, either. I remember reading an article about an elderly atheist who had once studied for the priesthood. He no longer believed in God, he said, because he "knew" God did not exist. No proof needed either way, he just "knew." And I've heard believers say the same thing about why they believe in God.

[applegrove]

12. It is a capacity. Does allot of good if it is not exploited. Same as

many other human abilities.

[Az]

13. Faith is a complex thing: Both good and evil

Faith can give people the confidence to struggle on when all rational hope is gone. It can be the thing that makes a difference. But this is true whether the struggle is for good or for ill.

The trouble comes from the very fact that Faith is resistant to probing. It nearly demands that no questions be asked of it. It assumes responsibility. This enables those that hold to it to unburden themself of dealing with the responsibility.

Responsibility is often a terrible burden. It can weigh us down and create stress that can halt our progress. Faith in things enables us to bipass this by handing the responsibility off to the subject of faith.

In our modern times it is becoming increasingly perilous to do this. Our abilities to do both good or ill increases at a steady pace. If we cannot take responsibility for our actions and our path then we may fall victim to a terrible misstep due to relying on faith to lead the way.

Faith is indeed comforting. But we know not where it leads us to. We believe that the things we have faith in will lead us to safety. But maybe that is what will blind us at the critical moment.

[bertha katzenengel]

14. It certainly has the potential for evil. But by no means does it lead

every faithful person to commit evil.

[Mrs. Venation]

15. Faith Is Morally Neutral

I agree with your assertion that faith can be complex, but I disgree that it can be good or evil. I think faith, in and of itself, is morally neutral.

The faith of fundamentalist zealots is resistant to probing. The practitioners of such faith strongly resist having their beliefs subjected to rational thought, logical examination or in-depth questioning. That faith is not sustained by growth; it is sustained by fear and by strict control. IMO, that faith is not the faith of the majority of believers.

The faith of the rest of the world is not only open to probing, but grows and matures because of that probing. I believe that a faith that cannot withstand examination and that resists questioning is a faith that is not worth having.

My faith demands that I take responsibility for my actions. While some believers may shrug off responsibility -- "the devil makes me smoke, drink to excess, promiscuous, etc.," -- I think the vast majority of us are quite willing to embrace the notion of freedom of choice, and we are also quite willing to take responsibility for our actions.

I think your entire post consists of sweeping generalizations. People of faith do not march in lockstep to any one theology, dogma or ideology, and even narrowing the scope of your argument to fundamentalists wouldn't be validated by my own experience with fundamentalist Christians.

Many of us practice faith tempered with objectivity and reality. While faith is of great comfort to us, we are not blinded by it.