Local Pastor Dies In Freak Baptism Accident

[beam me up scottie]

Rev. Kyle Lake, the pastor of Waco’s University Baptist Church, died Sunday morning in a freak accident during a baptism as his congregation looked on in horror.

Lake was in the process of baptizing a woman at about 10:30 a.m. Sunday at the church at South 17th Street and Dutton Avenue when a microphone fell in the baptismal.

Lake went into cardiac arrest and was confirmed dead at about 11:30 a.m.

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1931747.html

Darwin Award, anyone?

[qanda]

1. That's very sad

It must have been tragic to watch something like that happen. I remember when I was baptized and it was a special day.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Oh dear

I have no words

[salvorhardin]

3. Oh my gawd!

Real life has finally trumped Spinal Tap's drummers!

[brainshrub]

4. I see no Darwin here.

I think Darwins are given primarily for stupidity.

This death sounds like a freak accident, not an act of stupidity.

My favorite Darwin: The guy who decided to warm himself on a cold Christmas night by standing in front of a telecommunications microwave dish. (After being warned not to repeatedly.)

[greyl]

9. He was just ignorant of the voltage going through the mic, I guess.

He got the mic wet and shorted it out, it's not that he was in the water while holding it.

edit: I see now that the two sources quoted in this thread are in conflict over the exact details. However, it doesn't make sense that the mic fell into the baptismal and only killed one person in the water. The pastor had to have been holding the mic at the time.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Using an electric microphone near a baptismal isn't stupid?

I'll let the end result speak for itself.
:evilgrin:

Remember the drunken rock-n-roller who tried to play his electric guitar in the bathtub?

Same thing, except this guy was sober.

[brainshrub]

19. It was sheer bad luck.

Who knew that a church mic wire could pack such a punch?

The Rock & Roller was funny. How about the group of guys who decided to play Russian roulette with a land mine?

[beam me up scottie]

22. You don't think the mic had a warning label on it?

My battery operated appliances even have warnings.

"Who knew" is exactly what the Darwin Awards are all about.

Russian roulette with a land mine...:rofl:

[brainshrub]

27. Here's the full story from DarwinAwards.com

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-07.html

(22 March 1999, Phnom Penh) Decades of armed strife have littered Cambodia with unexploded munitions and ordnance. Authorities warn citizens not to tamper with the devices.

Three friends recently spent an evening sharing drinks and exchanging insults at a local cafe in the southeastern province of Svay Rieng. Their companionable arguing continued for hours, until one man pulled out a 25-year-old unexploded anti-tank mine found in his backyard.

He tossed it under the table, and the three men began playing Russian roulette, each tossing down a drink and then stamping on the mine. The other villagers fled in terror.

Minutes later, the explosive detonated with a tremendous boom, killing the three men in the bar. "Their wives could not even find their flesh because the blast destroyed everything," the Rasmei Kampuchea newspaper reported.

[beam me up scottie]

29. "The other villagers fled in terror."

Been there many times when I was out drinking with my buddies in the Marines...

[brainshrub]

31. I never, ever, EVER drink at a bar where I see:

1) Rugby Players
2) Marines

It's why I still have all my teeth.

[beam me up scottie]

32. A rule to live by.

My friend's dad was a Marine and he always talks about the time his pop got into an argument with an Army Ranger about who was meaner.

My friend's dad ended it by putting his lit cigarette out on his cheek.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Crap!

Now I'm going to be on that site all night.

No way you can read just one.:evilgrin:

[1620rock]

36. Cambodia

Sheesh! Maybe they should rename The Plane of Jars the Plane of Jerks!

[greyl]

28. Not on the mic. In the operating manual, definitely. ;) nt

[patdem]

25. Yeah, I blow dry my hair while sitting in the tub all the time..I just

hold it out of the water..of course my arm gets tired, but I MUST hold it out of the water or I will....zaaappppzzzzz...

[beam me up scottie]

35. I use my toaster while I'm showering.

Saves time in the morning, you know?

[Kolesar]

55. I hope you're joking, because that isn't kosher

I saw a girl get electrocuted holding a hairdryer. Her idiot kid brother came in the bathroom with a video camera to film her. She was drying her hair by the sink. She set the dryer down in the sink to slam the door in the brat's face, and

BAM !
DOWN !!
ELECTROCUTED !!!

She blacked out, collapsed, but survived. They also showed us films of a guy getting electrocuted & killed when he touched his vacuum in a wet driveway and a guy die in his wet basement. They put together this training for work, and it really changed the way I use electricity. You could say I "got religion".

edit: your penance is to read my preachy post 54

[beam me up scottie]

56. Nope, my dad didn't raise me to be a Darwin Award nominee.

I have a healthy respect for electricity.

Thanks for caring, though...you're sweet :hug:

[Kolesar]

57. I was talking to Patdem, not you!

[beam me up scottie]

58. So you don't care about me?

:cry:

[Kolesar]

59. Your life is most precious

And I know you are only getting one. I have seen some of the stuff you say and so did He.

[beam me up scottie]

60. "He" ?

Oh, right.

I'm going to hell.

I forgot about that for a minute there...:eyes:

[trotsky]

63. It so often comes back to threats, doesn't it?

"Naughty, naughty atheists. Someday you will be in hell and god and I will be looking down at you, high-fiving each other."

[beam me up scottie]

64. I'm scared, trotsky.

Did you check the basement for pods?

[trotsky]

66. ?

[beam me up scottie]

67. ~

[Az]

68. ^

This is what I got.... :shrug:

[Az]

65. Been there

Really don't see what all the fuss is about. Could use a few more stores. But really... its not that bad. Nice drive anyway.

[LiberalPersona]

78. Certainly sounds like one to me

What kind of idiot would keep something electronic directly over water, especially one with a detachable part?

[TNDemo]

5. What happened to the woman?

Wasn't she in the water?

[greyl]

8. She wasn't injured, thank god.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1264795

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[valerief]

7. Could be a Darwin

How do these baptisms work? Does the pastor stand in water and hold/wear a live microphone? If so, definitely a Darwin. Of course, if the live mike fell from the sky/heavens, I'd say someone above was making an offer the pastor couldn't refuse.

[Freedomfried]

10. Does it pass the "snopes test"?

The story smells funny to me.

[greyl]

13. I think so.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1264795

[salvorhardin]

15. It's believable to me

While microphones have very little voltage or current, water would greatly reduce resistance in this case. The pastor would have been the clear line to ground through his heart. It only takes about a tenth of a volt to stop your heart.

[phaseolus]

45. or, perhaps,

faulty, poorly-grounded sound equipment. I remember back in my stage crew days in high school, you would occasionally get a little electrical tingle when touching the microphone stand.

[Kolesar]

54. YES, it sounds like a ground-fault. Don't believe low voltage is safe !!!

About a third of outlets in this country are miswired according to the IEEE. That means that the protection of ground circuits to prevent fires are not there. That means electrocutions are likely.

Hell, you could touch the raingutter on your house and get electrocuted if there is some odd miswiring using the cable tv where there was a swapped line and neutral and a short.

A technician I know had a spark in his attic when he dragged an antenna wire across the cast iron vent pipe from the bathroom. Miswiring!!

Your bathrooms, kitchen, basement, and garage should all have GFI protection. It would not be a bad idea in the rest of the house too.

Be safe! I would miss you.

[asjr]

12. Must have been an electrifying performance.

[A Simple Game]

16. Thank you. I wanted to come up with something funny.

But now I don't have to.

[Nihil]

52. Shocking!

Up to your shoulders in water and requesting a electrical device that
is plugged into a mains-powered amplifier isn't a "freak accident",
it is just plain stupid.

Ah well, maybe his "sacrifice" will have enlightened some of his flock
with regard to basic electrical safety.

[Alcibiades]

14. It is a Baptist church in Waco

Probably not the most liberal congregation around. I cannot stand it when evangelicals say "bad things happen only to those who reject Jesus" or the equivalent, i.e. "New Orleans got the judgment of God in that thar hurricane" "God wanted the Rams to win the Super Bowl because we're Christian."

I always wonder how they rationalize stuff like this to themselves.

BTW, this Kyle Lake character made an itty bitty little walk-on appearance in Mother Jones a few years back. Here it is:

<snip>

In Waco, after Seay's sermon, Kyle Lake, a University Baptist pastor, leads an orientation meeting for prospective new members. He talks about how during the Enlightenment, God was held suspect because he was invisible, then continues on to discuss Descartes, science and reason, and the failings of "progress."

"Mankind," he concludes, "has gone to hell."

There are five young women in the group, all blond, all Baylor students, slumped on couches in Seay's office. Are they buying this? Do they get what Lake is talking about? One of them, I notice, has nodded off.

<snip>

[beam me up scottie]

17. The statement from the church:

We are confident that Kyle is in heaven today because of his trust in Jesus Christ as his Savior.

[Alcibiades]

20. "Mankind has gone to Hell"

But he gets to go to heaven.

Then there's the unintended double meaning: is it the case that he's in heaven because of his faith in Jesus, or is it the case that he's dead becaue of his faith in Jesus? Don't know about the first part, but the second is certainly true.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Of course, he's special.

If you want a closer look at how twisted some of them are, see BB's thread.

“I was a faithful husband,” he said, mystified as to how he ended up in hell. “I taught my kids right from wrong. I took my family to church on Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas.” One of his sins was hunting on Sunday mornings. A demon yelled at him, “You chose the enjoyment of life over Jesus.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2197696&mesg_id=2197696

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Failings of progress? This wouldn't have happened with a wireless!

[greyl]

30. Battery pack would have 'harmlessly' shorted out. :)

[Spinzonner]

18. Apparently the Lord has upped his technology

and doesn't use lightning anymore.

(Yes, I should be ashamed)

[beam me up scottie]

24. *Snort!

Yes, you should! :spank:

[zulchzulu]

23. That is indeed sad...

RIP, Rev. Lake.

[dweller]

34. the lord works in mysterious ways ... n/t

dp

[Christa]

37. zap him straight into heaven

from the church's website: We are confident that Kyle is in heaven today because of his trust in Jesus Christ as his Savior. O8) :think:

[NAO]

38. Very Sad. This is one case where Christianity will actually help people

I am fond of saying that "I love Christians, but hate Christianity". For all of the Xtianity bashing I've done here on DU and elsewhere, this story breaks my heart. If it were a joke, it would be funny - but it's real. That man had a wife and three children, who very likely saw their father killed before their very eyes.

Part of me wonders how the hell these people can still believe that God is watching over us and that everything is in his hands. It is such an natural human response to this kind of tragic loss to ask "why? why me"? But these people believe that not a sparrow falls...

For all the harm that Christianity does to humankind, and despite the most basic fact - that it is not true - I am sure that this family and the people in that church will be comforted by the notion that 'to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord'. They will find comfort and solace in a way that People of Reason, who believe in naturalistic explanations of all phenomena, would not.

I believe that Christianity is grossly mistaken about the way the world is. I believe it does far more harm than good. But I will admit that in cases like this, it does provide comfort to those who are grieving, by quenching their desire to ask "why" and their resentment at a random unexplainable freak occurrence that took their loved one away so suddenly on what was supposed to be a happy occasion. Possibly that is why it was invented, and why it persists to this day without evidence and despite evidence.

[beam me up scottie]

39. I might have more sympathy for

them if I wasn't sure they'd already written my ass off to hell.

I have a big problem with staged events like this.

My ex-mother-in-law's church put on a big show every Sunday and it was televised.

Since when do you need a microphone to baptize someone?

[NAO]

40. It definitely falls into the RTFM category, but their use of technology

is not, in and of itself, offensive.

Don't get me wrong, I despise the hobbled-together mass of primitive superstitions know as 'Christianity' as much as the next rational person, and yes, they have written us off to Eternal Damnation, but...

In their defense, why shouldn't they stage events? The Greeks staged dramas about their gods. They did not have electrical equipment, but they had those masks...someone could have been suffocated or something.

Hollywood actors, baseball teams, anti-war protesters, and yes, even Evangelical Christians have a legitimate right to use technology at their events. But they should definitely RTFM.

[salvorhardin]

42. Hmm...

From the Athens Daily Oracle circa 100BC:
"Local orator dies in tragic deus ex machina accident"

[beam me up scottie]

43. I'm not saying they shouldn't use the stage.

But they also shouldn't wonder why some of us find their Vegas style proselytizing nauseating.

My ex-MIL and her pack were paid to lurk in hospital corridors like vultures, trolling for vulnerable patients to "save".:mad:

[NAO]

46. ad/pr marketing; predatory witnessing, etc.

are very degrading and annoying.

[beam me up scottie]

47. Didn't they used to

just go out back and dunk them in the nearest pond or creek?

I'm not even sure I know what a "baptismal" looks like?

[NAO]

48. Like a museum aquarium/cut away dolphin exhibit

I was baptized in a real Baptist church baptistery. I can tell you exactly what they look like.

(BTW, if you have been "sprinkled", you might as well just sprinkle gasoline on yourself and light a match, because you are going straight to Hell! The only way to quench the fires of Hell is to be completely dunked.)

So in the front of the church there is a giant 5000 gallon aquarium built into the wall. It has fiberglass on three sides, and Plexiglas on the front. There are stairs on each side.

You go to a dressing room and strip down to your underwear. Then they give you a robe (like the sort Jesus always wears in old Bible illustrations) to wear. You descend the stairs, pushing out the giant air bubble that forms in your robe. At the bottom is the preacher. He grabs your nose, pinches it shut, mumbles some gobeldy-gook, and then bends you back and dunks you, saying, "buried in the likeness of His death", then brings you forward out of the water saying, "raised in the likeness of His resurrection". And all the people say, "AMEN".

And that is how REAL baptisms are done.

[beam me up scottie]

49. Dear dog,

how old were you?

When I was a kid, you would have had to drag me down, kicking and screaming into something like that.

I've never even been "sprinkled", heh heh.

Boy, didn't my ex-MIL look at me like a winning lottery ticket.

Imagine the bonus points she could have gotten if she had been able to get me to agree to be dunked.

[NAO]

50. I spent the first 19 yrs of my life in a personal relationship with Jesus

Christ... and it was VERY hard, I mean extremely difficult for me to be dragged away from Fundamentalist Christianity, kicking and screaming, and scared to death, but in the end intellectual honesty and rationality won out over indoctrination and superstition. I realized that Jesus was just an "imaginary" friend and that the Bible was just made up - a "Grim Fairy Tale".

But growing up in a fundamentalist church, going to a christian elementary, middle and high school, going to church services 3 times a week, and earnestly studying the Bible on my own for 19 years did leave me with an excellent grasp of this destructive myth.

To this day (I am 39 now, it's been 20 years) I know the Bible and can quote scripture better than most Christians I meet. I can explain to them the subtle nuances of the doctrines of their faith, before I debunk them. And I honestly understand the mentality of Christians, because I really sincerely believed it at one time. Somehow, it makes sense from the inside, as long as you don't look too close.

[beam me up scottie]

51. I am so glad

my parents were freethinkers.

I haven't met too many who managed to "get away" like you did.
And since I've no personal experience, I can't even imagine what it's like.
My ex grew up thinking he was going to hell.
Actually, he still believes that.
How can anyone do that to their kid?

[Maat]

61. Some faiths/belief-systems don't even believe in Hell.

We don't in Religious Science.

Poor man.

I do not agree with my nutty Southern Baptist relatives about anything.

No one deserves this, however.

I feel sad for his survivors.

[beam me up scottie]

62. Maybe you can answer my question.

There's a thread in GD about southern baptists' stand on homosexuality, and it's not exactly tolerant, here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5294067

My co-worker is a sb and she claims they are more tolerant than other types of baptists.

True or not?

And isn't Jimmy Carter an sb?

[Maat]

69. That is an outright lie, as far as I'm concerned.

No one is more intolerant than Southern Baptists. They state that they believe in the 'inerrancy' of the bible, and are obsessed beyond normal comprehension with homosexuality and the 'homosexual agenda.'

As some on DU know, I research the Religious Hardright, and write on it for my local groups.

If one were to imagine a continuum (say, being a bit silly, a zillion miles), the Unitarian-Universalists would be on the far left/liberal side, and the Southern Baptist (as is widely recognized) would be on the far right (the righthand end of the continuum). My faith/belief-sytem would be very close to the UU's (I'm a Religious Scientist, as I said; UCC is also REALLY progressive).

The Southern Baptists are notorious for saying 'love the sin, hate the sinner.' I'll translate for you, "I want to be a hateful bigot, so I say that Stephen Bennett, or another 'ex-gay' can lead a gay person out of homosexuality." The ex-gay stuff is the most dangerous stuff out there.

Hold on for links ..

On edit:

"FIRST-PERSON: Homosexuality in theological perspective, part 4

...

First, evangelicals must establish our understanding of homosexuality on the Bible and rest upon an undiluted affirmation of biblical authority. The Bible is unambiguous on the issue of homosexuality, and only a repudiation of biblical truth can allow evangelicals to join the moral revisionists.
...
This means that evangelical Christians must with increased effectiveness uphold the biblical model of sexuality. We must affirm its goodness without embarrassment, give thanks for the gift and its enjoyment, acknowledge without hesitation that God intended sexual relations for pleasure as well as for procreation, and never retreat from the clear biblical teaching that sex is intended only for the context of committed and monogamous heterosexual marriage.
...
This column was adapted from Mohler's weblog at www.albertmohler.com. Mohler is president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. For more articles and resources by Mohler, and for information on "The Albert Mohler Program," a daily national radio program broadcast on the Salem Radio Network, visit www.albertmohler.com. "
http://www.bpnews.net/bpfeature.asp?ID=2037
(Albert Mohler is one of their most prominent theologians.)

[beam me up scottie]

70. Great, right in my neck of the woods, too.

It wouldn't be so bad, I guess if they wanted to keep their beliefs to themselves, but they can't do that, can they?

They have to spread this disease everywhere and condemn everyone to live the way they live their miserable lives.

This explains a lot of the signage I see around here. :mad:

I'm guessing then, that Jimmy Carter couldn't be a southern baptist?

[Maat]

72. I know these things because ..

as I was becoming more progressively liberal, my in-laws all moved back to Oklahoma and became Southern Baptists.

There is no greater threat to the preservation of separation of church and state, in my humble opinion, unless it stems from Dobson's organizations (Dobson was raised in the hard, hard right Church of Nazarene).

If you look closely at the picture of Booosh signing the 'Partial Birth Abortion Act,' you will notice Richard Land, their 'Ethics' Commissioner.

Whereas UU's, Unity, and Religious Science honor all paths, the Southern Baptists are the most dogmatic, and insist that a wife 'submit' to her husband.

Yes, both Carter and Clinton were raised as Southern Baptists, but Carter has disavowed the Southern Baptist Convention and publicly denounced their positions on many issues.

[beam me up scottie]

74. I'm really glad to hear that

about Jimmy Carter.

I love the man, always have.

I was shocked to find out how many southerners around here hate him, though.

I'm not sure if it's because he's a Democrat or if it's because he dissed their religion.

This country could use a lot more Carters and Clintons.

I listened to Jimmy Carter's interview on NPR last week and one thing is for sure, the reichwing would never have gotten this far if they hadn't installed their puppet.

Liberal christians are as terrified of them as non-christians are.

[Maat]

75. You've got that right.

I happen to live in Religious-Wrong, California. We have one of the highest per capita rates of hardright churches in the state. I'm in the Temecula/Elsinore Vallies. We are about an hour and a half north of San Diego - inland, going up the 15 Fwy.

We've started a small group of progressives affiliated with churches (UU, Religious Science, Pagan, United Church of Christ). It is small right now, but growing.

We just have to keep speaking up. What happened around here is that the local Calvary Chapel organization (very hardright like the Southern Baptists - don't let any casual clothing fool you) - anyway (excuse the writing), the local CC somehow managed to acquire all of the low-powered FM radio facilites/equipment. It turns out they had a little help from their FCC buddies, apparently. The Religious Hardright owns the local newspapers. We are making small inroads, however.

Keep up the good fight! I've got to go vote. Not only am I going to vote to defeat anything Gov. Ahhnoold, but I'm going to vote for the moderate/progressive school board candidates. I'm going to do my best to make sure that a certain 'Conservative Christian' attorney doesn't get on the school board - by educating some of my neighbors about extremism.

Carry on the good fight!

[Maat]

71. Here's more ..

The Southern Baptist Convention (the administrative body):

"Resolution On Human Sexuality
June 1991

...

WHEREAS, Scripture reveals that human sexuality is a divine gift declared good in His sight and meant for the enjoyment and fulfillment of men and women within the sacred institution of marriage, and only within that institution; and

WHEREAS, Scripture condemns any abuse of sexuality, including premarital sex, adultery, rape, incest, pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, and homosexuality; and ... "


http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=984 .

[beam me up scottie]

73. They don't beat around the bush, do they?

I'm originally from New England where prudes like this at least had the decency to hide their real message for fear of losing adherents.

Be it further RESOLVED, That the Convention call upon all Christians to uphold the biblical standard of human sexuality against all onslaughts, celebrating sexuality as a divine gift to be exercised for the enjoyment and procreation of human beings, but wholly within the command and law of the Lord, under whose holy love, redemptive justice, and righteous judgment all humans stand.

Yeesh, always with the persecution and the defensive posturing.

Like we're going to FORCE them to have anal sex with an ex-con named Bubba.

[Maat]

76. HeeHee.

:rofl:

I started researching the Religious Hardright during law school, and began doing presentations on it.

One could literally spend days research the hostile, nasty, mean-spirited, dangerous, destructive, anti-gay, anti-feminist, and anti-equal-opportunity articles and resolutions the SBC and those affiliated with it put out.

And progressives poke fun at their Ethics Comissioner, Richard Land (the guy in the photo with Booosh), because his wife has worked since their kids were in kindergarten, despite their dogma describing how women should submit to their husbands and mind the home and the kids. He gets VERY defensive when they do that.

[MikeH]

77. Reminds me of a joke

I remember first hearing this joke (or a version of it) in Sunday school when I was in junior high school.

Three men were being baptized. The preacher dunked the first man and asked do you believe?

The man said yes, and the preacher blessed him and called the second man in, dunked him and asked do you believe?

The second man said yes, the preacher blessed him and called in the third man. The preacher dunked him and asked do you believe?
The third man said no.

The preacher dunked him again holding him down a little longer this time, pulled him up and asked do you believe

The third man again said no. The preacher then dunked him again, and held him down for a much longer time, pulled him up again and asked again, do you believe?

The third man said yes, I believe.

The preacher asked what do you believe?

The man said I believe you are trying to drown me!

[NAO]

41. The Amish have been vindicated. Electricity is a tool of Satan!

I can hear it now:

"We had exhorted our Baptist brethren against the use of the Devil's instruments. We had admonished them to shun electricity as it is a tool of Satan's power. But they did not listen, and lo, behold, the demonic force hath taken his life."

Of course the Amish will not hear about this vindication of their beliefs because they do not have access to ABC newswire, but if they did...

[beam me up scottie]

44. Are the amish vindictive?

I don't think I've ever met one who would be comfortable saying "I told you so".

The amish around here and in Pennsylvania where I lived previously, practice what they preach.

I have a great deal of respect for them.

[shrike]

53. Off-topic, but a similar tragic accident in my neighborhood

Fellow (who lived next door to my BIL) was cleaning his pool. The power washer was supposed to shut off if it fell in water. (Granted, he was a bonehead for the way he was cleaning.) Well, it fell in (it was an above-ground pool) and didn't shut off, and the guy was electrocuted. His 16-year-old son saw it happen, and without thinking, ran over to pull him out. He, too, was electrocuted. The other brothers, 12-year-old twins, saw the two of them, but fortunately did not follow their brother. They ran next door to get my BIL. He, fortunately, had the presence of mind to disconnect the power washer from the electrical outlet (though he doesn't remember doing so) before going after the bodies. He called 9-1-1 immediately (they were too heavy for him to get out on his own). Paramedics came immediately, but they were too late.
No matter how you feel about clergy, that was a terribly tragic thing to have happened. Especially if it happened in front of the man's family. Absolutely devastating for the surviving children, but they pulled themselves together and went on. At the funeral luncheon, the twins' grandmother made a remark about them being "just boys." One of the twins said, "I'm a man now, grandma."