Question for Atheists and Pagans

[InvisibleBallots]

Do you feel persecuted in the US? Do you believe that you are in physical danger from Christian fundamentalists? Do you feel inhibited from criticizing Christianity in the real world, and make up for that here on DU and online generally? Do you feel yourselves to be heirs of the pagan and atheist victims of Christian governments in Europe and the US hundreds of years ago?

One specifically for the Pagans - are you from a Christian family?

Just for the record, I assume for most these answer are "yes", but that's just my impression from reading posts.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. i am an atheist

and feel no personal persecution but more of a persecution of my beliefs...

[RUDUing2]

5. question?

so you feel that it is because you are an atheist or because you believe differently then what they believe?

Asking because as an RCC, fundies are also virulent against my beliefs..to the point of not considering me a christian at all in any form and destined for hell...the preacher at my moms SB funeral even mentioned this knowing that 5 of her grandchildren, two of her daughters and 3 of her sils plus several of her neices and nephews were catholic...(we let it go, dad was in enough pain as it was without *going there* he didn't even realize that the preacher had done this)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. because they want to legislate their religious beliefs

[RUDUing2]

28. thing is that they want to legislate *their* religious beliefs that are

not necessarily the same as the majority of christians beliefs..

do you really feel that it is because you are an atheist or because you believe differently then what they have decided is the *right* way that you feel persecuted?

Believe it or not the fundie churches spend much more time preaching and teaching against the false worshipping and the pagan and idolatorous beliefs of catholics (In their opinion) then they do against non-believers...

[Warpy]

15. I've felt persecuted

personally when people I work with have made horrible comments about the godless and how immoral they MUST be. And yes, I've corrected them all on that account and reminded them that I'm an atheist.

It's never been particularly easy to reject the dominant superstition, no matter what it is. In fact, the more lunatic that superstition happens to be, the more passionately people seem to cling to it, and the result is incredibly uncomfortable for those who don't.

I never proselytize, but this is who I am, and I'll stack my internal ethics up against their external morality any old day.

[CrispyQ]

19. Well said,

and exactly how I feel, too.

The idea that atheists are immoral is so hypocritical!

The only difference is, did you define your code of ethics yourself or do you follow a pre-defined (supposedly by a 'Deity') code? If you believe in free will, each & every one of us is still confronted with the fact that every decision we make is a test of our morality. Will you follow your belief system or go against it?

[MissBrooks]

2. No...

I believe in tolerance.
I don't care what the Christian Fundamentalists do. They don't bother me at all.

If we all respected each other's decisions, opinions, religious beliefs, etc., we would all be a LOT happier. Why should I feel persecuted because someone believes something I don't. I don't get angry at the French because we speak different languages.

It's all over blown!


PS... I was raised catholic.

[gumby]

17. Perhaps you should care what the Fundies DO.

It's not what fundies think, it's what they are actually doing that is truly frightening. For them, it's not just about being intolerant of other's beliefs, it's about seizing the government and using the law to force everyone else to their "values."

For Starters:
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm
http://www.harpers.org/JesusPlusNothing.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/16167

[MissBrooks]

20. I think you're paranoid

[gumby]

25. Even paranoids have enemies.

Some of us even know who some of them are.

[benddem]

3. the persecution I feel

is from the Christians who are stating we are persecuting them.
I for one have no connection to any ideology...I just don't believe in God....especially not the hatefull one all these not very christians seem to believe in.

[mitchtv]

4. Pagan /Pantheist

from an RC family. 12 yrs. Catholic school.I don't feel persecuted, but I am gay, religious beliefs are secondary discrimination.I still feel 'culturally' Catholic. We celebrate any holiday here.I love the pre Colombian gods.

[Union Thug]

6. as an Atheist and former Asatruar (Norse Pagan)

I don't feel persecuted.

As an Atheist, I feel as though way too much time is spent worrying about superstition in the public sector. I hate the fact that freakish fundies are able to get their mythologies interpreted and as science while denying access to science in certain classrooms.

When I was involved in Asatru, I never felt persecuted, either. Just annoyed with the loudmouths in the fundie and satellite xtian movement. =)

[alvis]

7. I'm an atheist, but don't feel persecuted.

But I live in NJ. I think the persecution has a lot to do with where one lives. I think I would feel a little more apprehensive in the Bible Belt, or other religious/conservative areas.

[PaganPreacher]

9. OK, in order:

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. Yes.

I am a panentheist, and Primal Pagan.



The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[NMDemDist2]

10. i just pretty much keep my mouth shut

end of persecution

but I don't fit well in either catagory you listed.

closest I can come to a label for my spiritual belief is "New Age Zen" :shrug:

[NAO]

11. In the past, I felt only vague prejudice from irrational misconceptions

People just have this aversion to atheism. It is a learned aversion and part of our culture. It was always OK to not be into religion, but to come right out and say you are an atheist always caused some discomfort for many.

Pagans had many of the same problems. The aversion to paganism was more often due to the belief that they were some kind of freaks or outside the mainstream. They got the normal shunning that anyone who does not follow the heard gets.

But lately, with the 'Christian Revival' and the attendant slide into Christan Theocratic Fascism, I do feel that sometime in the future, non-Christians may be persecuted for their beliefs.

When I first came to believe that Christianity was a fraud, and escaped 18years of Fundamentalist Christian upbringing, I wanted to tell everyone and was very enthusiastic about freeing the world from religious superstition. I found that people were fond of their superstitions, and I learned to just let it slide.

But with the 'moral values vote' of 2004 and the Christian empowerment and election of Bush, I once again feel the need to debunk the superstitions of Christianity. I believe that these beliefs are inimical to personal freedom, and now I have hard evidence (the 2004 election) that they are destructive to society as well.

The writings of Thomas Paine and Robert Ingersoll need to be revisited and widely distributed.

[Solon]

12. Let me see...

I only felt persecuted if I did anything that would advertise I was pagan, such as the time when I put a pentagram bumper sticker on my car, woke up the next morning, and someone keyed "Satanist" onto the side of the car and broke 2 of my windows. There was also the time when I had the audacity to actually where a pentacle around my neck, oh shit that was a bad idea, I was 18, left work, went to the gas station and some "good ole boys" there introduced me to a bat, all I remember of that is being called "Satanist boy". So do I feel persecuted? Only if I actually tell anyone about it, outside of family that is, they are cool. Hence the reason I'm sick and tired of Christians that whine about shit they have no clue about. I know that all Christians aren't like that, but by all the Gods, I'm sick and tired of all the shit that they spew about being "persecuted".

ON EDIT: Thanks to the internet, I can be open without fear, and the only thing I worry about is some bad words, which don't hurt me at all.

[verdalaven]

16. Holy shit Solon

Where do you live? I only want to know so I can avoid going there!

We live in a small town, small school, ect...my daughter is the only Buddhist in the mix, she is open about it and is wonderfully accepted. I always took that for granted, until right now.

I hope you find a safer home where you can live in the open. Tucson is nice. I have found Michigan pretty open, despite early fears when I first moved here.

My best to you! Stay safe!

Elizabeth

[Solon]

23. Missouri, the ass end of the Red part too...

Besides those two incidents, our crazies pretty much keep to themselves, but I'm not open anymore, more like "in the closet". I consider it a run of bad luck more than anything.

[junker]

13. No. Christians are physical cowards. Afraid of pain. And am aikidoist

as well as having studied other martial arts. Besides the body worshipers (christians) are bound to the reduction of the kalapa's to the material (meaning they think pain is real and meaningful). So do not fear them, even en masse. Yes they want to persecute due to their inherent understanding of the fragility of their system/belief structure and its obvious non-relevence to universe dimensional or material, but on the whole they are failures at this. En masse their minds are mush and easily the siddhi's are employed against them.

Individually, only a little ki is needed to 'flick' the channels in their minds to another freq and thus alter their next thoughts. No mind discipline or strength there at all. But what can one expect? These people believe that the planet is only 6000 years old, and in virgin-birth, and physical-form life after death. They have not only never heard of the nama and the rupa, but also will forcefully exclude any conflicting reality from their minds in order to protect the fragility of their belief system. While this makes them dangerous to the uninitiated, the rishi amongst us need not worry about the christians. After all anicca, dukha, annatta still rule.

Hate having battles of wits with unarmed people such as christians. Too boring for words.

namaste.

[verdalaven]

14. I am from a Christian family, with Christian background.

I've never felt persecuted for taking a different path. Most often friends and family worry about my immortal soul, but they do so in a loving way. If they didn't care, they wouldn't try saving me from the fires of hell. :)

[Agnomen]

18. I don't feel persecuted (yet)

primarily because I live in a large city in the Northeast, and evangelical Christians are not a dominant presence here. Since I've always considered religion/faith/beliefs (or lack thereof) to be a personal matter, I don't find myself discussing my views very often, nor do I dispute or criticize those of others. For the record: my family background is nominally RCC - but not very religious or churchgoing.

[Withywindle]

21. I'll see if I can help.

I am a Pagan, have been since 1989. I am originally from an atheist family (My dad's a pretty militant materialist, my mom's a lapsed Catholic).

Do I feel persecuted for my beliefs? No, because I live in Chicago and almost everyone I know is a liberal. :)

Growing up in rural Virginia, though, I was bullied and threatened in school constantly over it, mitigated only by deciding to go to church with friends out of sheer peer pressure (My parents would drop me off and pick me up-- they were cool). Most of the threats and vandalism (nothing major: phone threats, tires slashed) against our family happened when my parents complained about the religious indoctrination I was getting in my (PUBLIC) school -- mass-recitation prayers every day, being told "dinosaur bones are tricks of the devil," that kind of thing. This was in the 70s and 80s. I still worry about my family that's still there sometimes. Beautiful countryside and SOME wonderful people, but I wouldn't move back if I were paid by the hour just to sit there.

I don't consider myself a direct heir of previous victims of Christian intolerance and bloodlust (as well as some current ones), but I certainly feel a certain amount of solidarity with them.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Pagan

I do feel persecuted in the US. I KNOW I am in physical danger from Christian fundamentalists. I never am inhibited from criticizing Christianity (or any religion) in the real world. I do it here too, on DU. I do it respectfully, but even that is met with cries of oppression.

I am not from a Christian family. My family is Jewish, so I grew up with being oppressed by Christians all my life. I don't care if people are Christian. What I do care is that they think their way is better than mine, and they feel "pity" for me. Fuck your pity, I don't need it, I am just fine. I don't like that anytime you disagree with a Christian (not all of them), they fall apart because you are "oppressing" them. Christian? Want to see REAL oppression? Move to China and see how well you can worship there!! Until then, be willing to accept that others' belief differently from you as you do from them. It is not ALWAYS an attack on your faith!

[noamnety]

24. my answers

Do you feel persecuted in the US?
Rarely, but I am good friends with people who are gay and they are persecuted, and it matters to me.

Do you believe that you are in physical danger from Christian fundamentalists?
I never did before 2000, but increasingly I feel like the radical right is using the courts, congress and the health care system to impose religious law on all of us. I feel like there is a very real possibility that medical choices - particularly birth control - are being restricted, and that does put me in danger, as I would be a high risk pregnancy.

Do you feel inhibited from criticizing Christianity in the real world ...
Absolutely. Unless you know you are among like minded people, it's just not done.

... and make up for that here on DU and online generally?
I speak more freely online, but I tend to be extremely guarded in my online speech as well, it's definitely not making up for anything. That's like saying eating half a carrot stick is making up for skipping breakfast.

Do you feel yourselves to be heirs of the pagan and atheist victims of Christian governments in Europe and the US hundreds of years ago? No.

One specifically for the Pagans - are you from a Christian family? I'm an atheist, from an atheist family.

[InvisibleBallots]

26. thanks to everybody

I learned a lot that I didn't know.

[lazarus]

27. I've lost at least one job

And when I was managing a store in small-town Alabama, had to figure out clever ways to fend off questions like, "So, where do you go to church?"

Yes, they actually ask that down there.

So, yes, I feel persecuted. When the President of the US says I'm not a citizen, I feel persecuted.

When the majority of Americans won't vote for an atheist, I feel persecuted.

When I'm constantly being told this is a Christian nation, I feel persecuted.

[sybylla]

29. I'm with lazarus

I've never lost a job but it never came up and now I'm self employed. On the other hand I know several employers who would not likely hire me if they knew.

But I do feel persecuted for the very same reasons lazarus mentions. Additionally, I feel persecuted when separation of church and state battles in my community bring out the wackos who initiate "witch" hunts for non-believers or people holding other non-conformist views.

It's odd. I don't really encounter a day-to-day kind of bias but no one can persecute you if they don't know you're atheist. I think it's similar to the persecution of gays, though certainly not as severe and probably not as pervasive. Still, as long as you're in the closet, no one cares. But step out and point out that something goes against separation of church and state and you're a marked person in your community. Run for office openly atheist and watch doors get slammed in your face. Put an atheist or even humanist affiliation on your resume or job application and you'll not likely get a call for an interview.

[Az]

30. Persecution yes. Physical perhaps not

at least not yet. But I can list a large number of events if you wish where I was definately harassed for my atheism. Though I can brush these assaults off, I simply put should not have to.

And if I were to shout out there is no god after a bunch of sports fans finished a pledge of allegiance with emphasis on under god I may well expect a beat down or a beer shower.

[Dervill Crow]

31. Pagan henotheist

I live in a pretty liberal part of the country, but there are quite a few Christian fundies at my workplace. Several of the gals I lunch with will remark about other people, "Well, (s)he's a Christian," with the implication being of course that person is upstanding, honorable, and an all-around great person, which does tend to bug me. I don't advertise that I'm Wiccan (okay, I do wear a pentacle but it's subtle). Since November 2 I feel a lot more vulnerable and actually am a bit worried about what's coming down the pike. We've had some e-mails at work recently instructing us not to discuss religion or politics or anything that might make anyone "uncomfortable," and since my son started driving my car and removed my "Goddess Bless" bumpersticker (which I put on shortly after the arrival of all the "God Bless America" stuff that sprang up all over my office building and nauseated me after 9/11) I haven't replaced it.

Not raised Christian. The Jesus story was given the same weight as Santa and the Easter Bunny and no one in the family attended church. My mom was from the south and sort of a cross between Baptist and American Spiritualist with strong belief in the paranormal. I spent my mid 20s to 30s as a born-again Christian, and both my family of origin and my husband, a nonpracticing Catholic, were horrified and are quite thankful that I outgrew it. I even read Dobson when my kids were little, and I swear he wasn't that insane 25 years ago.