My Born-Again Fundie Freak Sister has become........ a Jew!

[leftchick]

Good lord almighty I can not even begin to wrap my head around this one! While home for the holidays my mother mentioned to me that one of my older sisters had become a Jew and that she and her husband had their marriage vows renewed in their Temple.

The background is we grew up Roman Catholic attending Catholic schools for 12 years. She then became agnostic for a number of years telling me, why should I believe the bible when there are no women writers?

She had a rough first marriage and found Jesus about 20 years ago, with the whole "you are going to hell if you don't claim Jesus" spiel to me and my family.

She found her new fundie husband in God country in Virginia Beach, VA. They have been married ten years and apparently this conversion to Judaism happened last year.

We are not close and I have always referred to her as a fruit loop to my sibs. I really don't know what to make of this except perhaps she is trying to cover all of the bases before the final curtain call? Does this happen often with Christian Fundamentalists? Is she crazy?? :crazy:

[ixion]

1. well, good for her, I guess

maybe one day she'll find one that works for her. :-)

[DancingBear]

2. Is that last question rhetorical?

:) :)

If not, the Magic 8-Ball says "all signs point to yes." :)

[leftchick]

23. yes I guess it was indeed...

my friend's boyfriend was insisting to me that what she is doing was in the realm of normal. My friend by the way is Jewish and we had a lot of laughs about this. In a weird way. :)

[yourout]

3. Reminds me of the first Mummy movie were...

the weasaly character started praying in about 10 different religions when faced with death by mummy.

[soothsayer]

4. My catholic sis became a messianic (jews for jesus) jew!

And most recently a vegetarian too.

Edited to try to spell messianic better and to say first she became a born again, but then wanted a stricter god I guess so went old testament, except still love jesus, so....

[BonnieJW]

5. Jews for Jesus

I'm thinking this is what your sis and hubby became. It's another branch of fundie. Fundies don't become real Jews.

[Book Lover]

6. Well, she found a rabbi willing to guide her conversion

so she probably isn't crazy, unless she's so self-deluded that she doesn't even know she's lying to herself.

onedit: Points above taken about Jews for Jesus. They are a plain, old-fashioned cult.

[benburch]

7. Does she realize that the born-again neo-Christians want to kill her?

As soon as the "end days" come, they plan to kill ALL Jews who will not convert to "Christianity".

And, yes, I'd say you are looking at a mental illness. ALL hyper-religiousity is mental illness.

[Burning Water]

27. No they don't.

God's going to do it. They'll have nothing to do with it. At least that's the way I understand the belief.

[funflower]

55. According to the dispensationalist interpretation, God will kill ALL

nonbelievers in Jesus, not just Jewish ones. So join the club!

[Horse with no Name]

8. Sounds to me like she is desperately in search

of belonging.
She must not watch much television or it seems she might get hooked up the Church of Latter Day Saints--they sure make a pretty convincing commercial,lol.

[Demit]

9. 12 years of Catholic school, that's all I had to hear, lol!

Speaking as a survivor thereof. If the nuns you guys had were anything like mine, that's your answer right there. My PTSD took the form of running from all organized religion, however. Your sis is still bouncing around in the particle collider, I guess.

[dae]

10. Happened to my wife's brother. He went from Baptist, to

Charismatic(skipped the agnostic), and says he's now Jewish. I think he may be getting circumcised this week.
He never had a full deck of cards.

[rurallib]

18. Will he be wearing the foreskin on his left hand ring finger

as a sign of committment?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. It happens to "troubled" people. They go from one extreme to another.

I have a cousin who was first into drugs - then became born-again - joined the military - then Amway. Now he's a workaholic.

He was totally immersed and obsessed into each thing.

[leftchick]

13. yeah she is troubled

she has always been a handfull for my parents even into her twenties. She did the drug thing, married a loser, went bankrupt, borrowed a gazillion dollars from my folks for more schooling, met the current hubby, had two more children in her fourties, the younger has severe Autism. She also decided she is ADHD and takes aderol(sp?) which really ends up making her a speed freak. It is difficult to spend even a few hours with her.

[punpirate]

12. Uh, maybe this is not the time to tell her...

... that dispensationalist theory requires Jews to convert to Christianity when Christ returns, and if they don't, they end up getting killed in the midst of the battle of Armageddon.... :shrug:

[leftchick]

lol!

she apparently has selective old testament memory. :crazy:

[rurallib]

14. Please keep us informed when she goes through her

Muslim stage. That one should make you screw your head off in wonder.

[leftchick]

16. LOL! That is exactly what I said to my Mom!

:rofl:

[txindy]

35. Okay, I just spit tea all over my screen here.

**wiping to check for typos**

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

[htuttle]

53. My mother hit all those bases

Christian, then Jewish, then Moslem. With dashes of Buddhist and Sufi sprinkled in between and after.

I don't know what she is now.
Not sure she does either.

:shrug:

In any case, there were a lot of interesting books around my house while growing up!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. Some people are addicted to "extremism" and radical change/ideas in

their life. Whether this means being a drug fiend, a rabid Ann Coulterish RWer, a snake handling Pentacostal fundie, etc.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYCGirl]

20. What, may I ask, is a "Jew attitude"? NT

[slackmaster]

28. Play on Dr. Laura's bumper music, plus...

An Orthodox Jewish friend of mine spoke eloquently against Dr. Laura's conversion to Judaism which was followed promptly by a de-conversion. He said something like "She treats changing her life philosophy as casually as she does changing her shoes."

Dr. Laura plays a snippet of the song "I Got A New Attitude" by the Pointer Sisters at the beginning of her show.

[NYCGirl]

32. Never watched (or heard) Dr. Laura, so I didn't understand the reference.

NT

[kenny blankenship]

19. it's all part of her sick Cynthia thing

google "I'm as Jewish as fucking Tevya" if this perplexes.

[Acryliccalico]

21. LOL ....................n/t

:kick:

[CrispyQ]

22. Off topic, but thanks for the great link to the

save the whales movie. My heart breaks to know the harm we do to these incredible creatures thorough our callous behavior.

The household paper page is very educational! Great site -- I've bookmarked it.

:hi:

[leftchick]

24. one more person helping the helpless!

Thank you! :hi:

[Burning Water]

25. Well, I dated a girl once , long ago

who was a Baptist. After we broke up, she became a Jehovah's Witness. Now neither one of those groups has much use for the Mormons, so, before she graduated she had become one. She kept seeking spirituality, but to my knowledge never found it. I heard about 10-12 years ago she had committed suicide. I don't know what the score was there. All I can think about is"if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything", and I guess that's what happened to her.

[jokerman93]

26. My guess is she's still basically a fundie

If so, her conversion might have something to do with this:

The Samaritan woman said, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain; and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” Jesus responded, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.” (John 4:19-22)

:shrug:

[immoderate]

29. Interesting.

First, I hope the children, if any, bear up through the borderline insanity of their parents. Children are the biggest victims of religion. It takes you from things you want to do, to things you don't want to do. Prevents critical thinking development, and ultimately, can drive you insane.

I have noticed that the Christian Fundy team occasionaly trades players with the Orthodox Jew team. While conservative Jews have been relatively reticent in the culture wars, some have spoken up to ban abortion and erotic literature. Interestingly, there is no ban of abortion in Judaism, even a new born is not considered a full person and not given a regular funeral if it dies in the first week.

To my mind, it's a different flavor of (U) Kool-Aide.

--IMM

[davidwparker]

30. I live near VA Beach. If she decides she wants to follow the Messiah

again, Norfolk has a messianic synagogue called Beth Messiah. I've been there a couple of times so that I could get more into the Jewish roots of Christianity. I believe Christianity is what the Jews practiced around the time of the Messiah and in time, gentiles warped the belief system with traditions of men.

Good luck to her!

[leftchick]

31. Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah

Right? Maybe that is synagogue she attends because it would make more sense.

[davidwparker]

34. Actually, that's not true. Jews do recognize Jesus. The first disciples

were Jews. The messianic synagogue that I attended, they were Jews. Ever been to a messianic synagogue?

Follow the link -> http://sites.silaspartners.com/jewishjewels

Maybe in your experience no Jews have accepted the Messiah.

[leftchick]

36. The only Jewish folks I have known growing up

have told me that yes indeed they acknowledge Jesus existed but that he was not the Messiah, merely another prophet. The real Messiah has yet to come. I am not sure what form of Judaism that would be.

[NYCGirl]

38. Messianic Jews are a very small minority.

You are correct.

[davidwparker]

39. It's called Messianic Judaism. They accept Jesus, whom they call

Yeshua, as the Messiah and risen Lord. Just as gentile Christians do. They keep all there traditions and teaching of the TNK and writings, as they all point to the already-come Messiah anyhow. It gets tough for non-messianic believers to explain Isaiah 53.

They don't mind the term Christian, but prefer to call themselves Jewish believers.

[rockymountaindem]

56. In Judaism, Jesus is neither the messiah nor a prophet.

It is Islam which acknowledges Jesus as a prophet but not the messiah/son of God. The Old Testament and the Mishnah alike have nothing to say about Jesus at all, because they were all complied before the advent of Christianity. The only part of Jewish theology that has anything to say about Jesus is the Talmud, much of which was complied during the Christian era, and therefore contains debate about Judaism vs. Christianity.

As far as basic Jewish theology is concerned (not looking at relatively modern commentaries from the Talmud which make reference to Christianity), Jesus doesn't figure in at all.

[Chi-Town Exile]

44. I hate to break up the party ...

but mainstream Jews DO NOT recognize Jesus.

That is the MAIN difference between Christians and Jews.

Jews are STILL waiting for the Messiah. Christians believe that Jesus IS the Messiah. The reason the first disciples were Jewish is that Jesus drew his followers from his people (which were Jews) and he was considered a Rabbi. However, there is one disciple that was a gentile (not Jewish) as I am not well versed in the New Testament (as I am a Jew) I don't know what background the non-Jewish disciple (was it Simon-Peter?)hailed from.

While Jews for Jesus recognize Jesus, I'm afraid that all three branches of Judaism (Orthodox, Conservative and Reform) do not recognize Jews for Jesus (or even Messianic Jews) as Jews. These groups may call themselves Jews but you would be hard-pressed to find a Rabbi from any branch of Judaism that would call these people Jews. It's not that they are being creeps about it. It has to do with the tenets of the Jewish religion. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ. (Many Jews privately believe that Jesus walked the Earth and consider him a Prophet) but you will not find anything in Jewish liturgy or theology that would back that position up ... it is Islam that formerly recognizes Jesus as a Prophet. And ... if memory serves, Muslims consider Moses a Prophet as well.

The formal branches of Judaism consider groups that call themselves Jews but acknowledge Jesus as anomalies. I'll use a baseball example. If you change the rules of Baseball to end an inning with FOUR outs ... it is a new game. It is no longer BASEBALL, you need to call it something else. Same goes with Judaism ... if you accept Jesus as the Messiah ... you no longer accept Judaism in its current form. The current state of Judaism is that we are still waiting for the Messiah to appear on this Earth.

Hope this helps. (edited to remove rogue parentheses)

[leftchick]

45. Thank You!

You confirmed for me what I had always believed to be true. I have not heard of the Jews for Jesus but perhaps that is what my sister has joined!
It would make more sense that way and I realize that she would not really be a Jew if she had.

Do the Jews for Jesus have actual Rabbis? This is very bizarre.

[Chi-Town Exile]

46. Yes ... there are many Jews and Christians

that will become Rabbis within the Messianic Jewish groups. "Rabbi" is the terminology they use but I do not believe that they have any actual colleges or seminaries (if you will) where people are formerly trained. That may have changed, though, I haven't kept up with it.

I speak from experience. My Aunt and cousins are Messianic Jews. One cousin is called a Rabbi but I know for a fact he has had no formal training at any Jewish theological colleges. In fact, he was trained by a former Catholic Priest who now calls himself a Messianic Jewish "Rabbi."

My Aunt and cousins explained that in the Messianic Jewish tradition one honors Jesus by adhering to Jewish customs. They feel this the best way to worship Jesus as the Messiah because Jesus was a Jew that was raised with Jewish theology.

And IMO, a lot of these people are QUITE fundie!

However, if this makes your sister happy and at peace, what can I say? I have no problem with it. I only have a problem with people that want to shove their religion down my throat! LOL

[hippiegranny]

33. she has an addiction

it seems that whatever cult manages to "speak" to her at the moment - she's in with both feet.

[Cleetus]

37. Good for her

It took her a while, but she finally arrived (can you tell I'm a Jew?)

So long as she is happy, that's what matters.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. In 20 more years she might become a muslim.

:evilgrin:

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. It's not that far a stretch from RC to Judaism

Especially if you're into rules. The Old Testament is all about rules.

I know a few people who have converted to Judaism has adults. I grew up around a lot of Jewish people and my college boyfriend was Jewish. I celebrated most Jewish holidays for about 4 years. I enjoy all the rituals and the food was great. Better then sitting in church and genuflecting all the time.

If you've ever been to a Jewish temple, their regular service is not that different from the RC mass.

So I guess it could have been worse, she could have become a Scientologist.

[leftchick]

49. My very best friend of 42 years is Jewish

When we were children I would go to Temple with her on occasion and she would come to mass with me so I am very familiar with the similarities. It was funny to see her after I found this out and told her my Sister was now a part of her Tribe! Omg we are both so weirded out!

I find the born again "you are going to HELL if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior" type fundie the exact opposite of my Jewish friend's teachings.

Perhaps my sis is one of the Messianic Jews mentioned in this thread that I am not at all familiar with. That would make much more sense.

[undeterred]

42. She could become a Jew for Jesus and cover all her bases at once.

:shrug:

[txindy]

43. Okay, fine, then.

It's a bit confusing, all right. Does this make her more open-minded because she's willing to listen to new (to her) ideas or is she just easily-influenced? I'm betting on the latter, but not until she's bored with something, first, then she's open to suggestions. I'm just curious as to how she first jumps from one to another. What points her in each of those directions she's chosen?
Rhetorical question. Only she can answer that and I don't think I want to ask her. No offense! I just have little patience with fundies of any stripe. Fundie fatigue - I'm surrounded by them.

[StraightDope]

47. My guess is that your sis took the whole "God's chosen people thing"...

A little too seriously. After all, it does say that in the bibble, if I'm not mistaken. I wonder if she's keeping kosher? No more bacon, no more cheeseburgers, no more shrimp, as far as this secularist is concerned, no thank you!

No offense intended to Jewish DU'ers. My flippancy should be taken as a lame attempt at humor.

SD

[Jacobin]

48. Still looking for that magic way out, I guess

I don't have much time for people who can't embrace life as it is given to us, from whatever unfamothable source and try to live each day and appreciate it and love those around us, because it is all so beautiful and so damn short, even when its not always painless.

Looking for 'salvation' or an afterlife, or whatever just seems to me to be squandering the precious moments we have to simply live life and use the gift given to us.



But that's just me

[leftchick]

52. It isn't just you...

I am a very Liberal Catholic and that is me too! :)

[baby_mouse]

50. Sounds like she's collecting the set.

She's got a lot of work to do...

[LittleClarkie]

51. Is she a "Jew for Jesus"? Or has she sorta dropped Jesus as the messiah?

Just wondering how that works.

I find it interesting how the two intertwine. The tradition of communion comes out of Passover. I believe the cup Jesus was supposed to be holding up was the cup of redemption, the third cup in the Passover celebration.

[barb162]

54. It seems like she changes her religious status every ten

or so years so just wait a while.