Scientology is the most whacked out bullshit I've ever heard.

[Jara sang]

and it is not a religion, it's a cult. A very dangerous cult. Look at this crap: They have their own friggin' navy.

[sasha031]

1. are they liberal?

[LiviaOlivia]

46. No

any group that is closed and secretive is not liberal IMHO...Doesn't matter if they donate money to liberal causes.

Openness is liberal.

[benburch]

2. It is a cult, and is evil.

And is an enemy of the USA.

[Jara sang]

10. Most human potential groups have fascist overtones.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. They have some VERY INTERESTING

beliefs. I'm partial to the guys streaming out of the volcano.

Makes the resurrection of Christ look tame.

[leftofthedial]

4. every cult should have it own navy

and a goodly suply of tasty little midshipwomen

[A Simple Game]

47. I noticed that myself. n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. What Happened To Tolerance?

[arcane1]

9. one can be tolerant...

and still think it's wacked-out bullshit

same with all the other religions :evilgrin:

[Warpy]

42. My yardstick for religious wackiness is the Irish Catholic

stuff I grew up with, which can best be appreciated if one has the bad luck to be born a despised female whose destiny is as a temptress, despoiling the utterly pure males in the church.

Scientology, from all I've read about it and heard about it from escapees, comes pretty close to the sheer nuttiness of a lot of Irish Catholicism.

I don't think religions started by bad sci fi writers are the answer to much of anything, but to each his own. It's their aggressive legal attacks against critics that alarm me.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Scientology Has Much In It That Is Quite Respectable, And Is No Way Only

for fools and freepers. I think you may be attacking it merely because you don't understand it. But as dems, we are supposed to be tolerant of others religions whether we understand/agree with them or not.

Would you mind going more into detail about what it is about scientology that offends you or deems it worthy of bashing? I'm just curious as to the context behind the statements.

Thanks! :hi:

[Jara sang]

20. It is a cult that suppresses peoples freedoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Organization

Many ex-Sea Org members have reported grueling and torturous treatment, including Gerry Armstrong, who, during his time in the Sea Org, spent over two years banished to its Rehabilitation Project Force as a punishment. Says Armstrong:

"It was essentially a prison to which crew who were considered nonproducers, security risks, or just wanted to leave the Sea Org, were assigned. Hubbard's RPF policies established the conditions. RPF members were segregated and not allowed to communicate to anyone else. They had their own spaces and were not allowed in normal crew areas of the ship. They ate after normal crew had eaten, and only whatever was left over from the crew meal. Their berthing was the worst on board, in a roach-infested, filthy and unventilated cargo hold. They wore black boilersuits, even in the hottest weather. They were required to run everywhere. Discipline was harsh and bizarre, with running laps of the ship assigned for the slightest infraction like failing to address a senior with "Sir." Work was hard and the schedule rigid with seven hours sleep time from lights out to lights on, short meal breaks, no liberties and no free time... When one young woman ordered into the RPF took the assignment too lightly, Hubbard created the RPF's RPF and assigned her to it, an even more degrading experience, cut off even from the RPF, kept under guard, forced to clean the ship's bilges, and allowed even less sleep."

[Jara sang]

22. I might also add this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy

Fair Game

Hubbard detailed his rules for attacking critics in a number of policy letters, including one often quoted by critics as "the Fair Game policy." This allowed that those who had been declared enemies of the Church, called "suppressive persons" or simply "SP," "May be deprived of property or injured by any means... May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

Scientologists sometimes claim that Hubbard canceled the Fair Game policy in 1968. What the "HCO Policy Letter of 21 October 1968" actually says, however, is "The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations. This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP."

Under pressure by separate investigations into Scientology in England, New Zealand and Australia, and bad publicity in the press, Fair Game was publicly cancelled in 1969. (HCOPL Mar 7, 1969)

However, in 1977, top officials of Scientology's "Guardian's Office," an internal security force run by Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard, did admit that fair game was policy in the GO. (Us vs Kember, Budlong Sentencing Memorandum - Undated, 1981).

In separate cases in 1979 and 1984, attorneys for Scientology argued that the Fair Game policy was in fact a core belief of Scientology and as such deserved protection as religious expression.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Ahhhhh, Gotcha. Different Distinctions.

I'm looking at scientology from a theoretical only standpoint of some of the wisdom contained within the writings. There is a lot of good things there. But you are talking more about the Church Of Scientology, which of course is now pretty much synonymous, even though they aren't. The CoS definitely abuses the whole concept for what appears to be massive greed, and there are many many out there who abuse scientology just to use it for marketing. I agree that the pressure marketing and scam-like essense of the 'business' of scientology is simply wrong.

But scientology on the concepts themselves, does have some good stuff in it.

On Edit: PLEASE NOTE: I said some good stuff. Some of the stuff is outright wacky too LOL But I still don't think it's worthy of bashing, as I have much respect for tolerance of others beliefs.

[Matariki]

41. good stuff like what?

honest curiosity here - since you've separated their IDEAS from their organization.

[Matariki]

40. could you go into detail about what *you* find 'repectable' in scientology

i'm real curious. i know quite a bit about it, and i think they're dangerous crackpots.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. Scientology is worthy of nothing BUT bashing.

There is NOTHING in it that is respectable. It is a criminal scam, based on suckering idiots out of as much money as they can be taken for.

If you go to a Scientology centre, they'll give you a 'free personality test'. This test has no psychiatric or psychological validity, and unlike most actual tests of this nature, there are 'right' answers. (The right answer being the way L Ron Hubbard would've answered.) No matter how you answer, they'll tell you you have problem areas in your personality causing whatever difficulties you have in your life, and that $cientology can HELP. For a fee, of course. They'll want you to come to 'auditing' sessions (US $500 or so an hour), where you'll be hooked up to an 'e-meter' (which is a simple ohm-meter, with soup-can electrodes, tarted up with digital readouts and a shiny case, etc...cost: US $4500+)and 'audited', which involves a sort of one-sided confessional, with the 'auditor' treating the glorified ohm-meter as a lie detector, the supposed object being to 'audit out engrams'...engrams being traumatic experiences (some from past lives) supposedly buried in our subconscious, that cause sickness, distress, discomfort,and so on.

There's also much reading (very expensive), 'training' sessions, etc...until you finally reach the stage of "Operating Thetan, level three" (cost to get to this point: $300K+), when you find out that the spirits (called 'thetans') of an alien race slaughtered by a psychotically evil galactic overlord named Xenu untold aeons ago are trapped inside your body and are the cause of all of your illness, distress, discomfort...you get the idea. Time for MORE auditing. More money, too. (Don't worry, though. If you can't afford it, you can sign a billion-year contract in their paramilitary 'Sea Org' and get free auditing and materials in exchange for working your arse off eighteen hours a day as a latter-day scullery slave or something equally degraded.)

[Goblinmonger]

61. South Park did this whole bit

and the funniest part was they had to put "Scientologist Really Believe This" on the bottom of the screen when they did the thetans bit because they were sure most people would think that they were making that shit up (they being Stone and Parker--since we know that Hubbard WAS making it up).

[Crunchy Frog]

51. Their eagerness to condemn women

who seek treatment for postpartum depression? The pricetag of their brand of salvation which can run into the hundreds of thousands, or millions of dollars? Their condemnation of an entire class of medical professionals and of the people who seek their assistance?

That's some of the things that I find worthy of bashing. I don't know about anyone else. And as a Dem, I feel completely free to be intolerant of some religious groups. I don't have a very high opinion of Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell, or Focus on the Family either. Are you going to condemn me for that as well?

[joeunderdog]

25. It left with harrassment.

I took a "personality test" in one of their "schools" when I was in college. Had no idea what it was--some cute girl pulled me off the street and told me they had this free eval, blah blah blah... Lots of touchy feely stuff--told me how she was a reformed slut and how it changed her life, etc. Long story short, she twisted my arm to give them some info and begged me to join. I wound up on their phone and mailing list and was practically stalked for about 10 years. They sent me probably 2 trash bags full of letters and called me a hundred times. I begged them to stop. Finally, I started asking the callers what they were wearing and told them I wanted to make these phone calls work for me. I told them that this was really about sex and that I was up for it.

They took me off their list after more than a decade.

True story.

[Inland]

57. Hey! Me too, a cute girl on the street!

She was approaching, red hair, fair skin, I could even see her green eyes. My gawking must have caught her eye because she smiled and approached, and as I was really seizing up she asked me if I wanted a personality test.

I was crestfallen, but I told her that I had already had a personality test, but unfortunately it had come back negative. I thought that was pretty funny, but she moved on pretty quickly.

[quinnox]

6. It is some crazy stuff

The more money you have and give to them the higher you go in enlightenment or something.

It's a scam.

[Beaverhausen]

44. Doesn't christianity work the same way?

Also a scam.

[Zebedeo]

64. No, it doesn't. n/t

n/t

[AX10]

7. I'm most certainly no fan myself.

It's a scam. The more money you give them, the more "enlightenment" you receive. :eyes:

[KamaAina]

18. They even have "reverse credit counselors"

who tell you how to get as many credit cards as you can so you can max them all out on Scientology classes. :puke:

The more money you give them, the more "enlightenment" you receive., indeed!

[SPKrazy]

8. And some short skirts on their female umm, ensigns?

Good Lord

what do they need a Navy for?

[HillDem]

11. Whatever. All religion is a little irrational, IMHO n/t

[hobbit709]

23. All religions look equally silly

when viewed from the outside.
"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh"

[ChairmanAgnostic]

all religions look silly. ALL religions ARE silly.

it is as simple as that.

[Ladyhawk]

54. I agree.

After breaking free from fundy Christianity, I can't understand why I ever believed in any of that tripe. :shrug: When it comes to religion, people are willing to believe the outlandish if the religion will assuage their fears (about the unknown, powerlessness, death, etc.). I think humanity would be so much better off if we got rid of them all, but as long as there are fearful people there will be religion. In other words, there will always be religion. :(

[troubleinwinter]

12. Interesting site:

http://clambake.org/

"Operation Clambake - Undressing the Church of Scientology since 1996"

[KittyWampus]

14. Did you know L Ron Hubbard Based Scientology On Black Magic?

Hubbard followed Aleistar Crowley.

Scientology does in fact rest on sound Esoteric Principles. But followers are ignorant of the inner meanings. It's half baked Qabalism.

[Matariki]

45. goddammit Aleistar Crowley is NOT 'black magic'

whatever the hell *that* is.

Hubbard worked/studied with Jack Parsons in the california OTO (Crowley's group). He then stole a lot of money from Parsons and ran off with his wife. By the way, I've noticed that if you mention the OTO to pesky scientologists they stop bothering you.

He was also in Naval intelligence so maybe he was spying on Parsons and the OTO.

[MazeRat7]

15. No more "whacked" than any other self-aggrandized group... (n/t)

[JuniperLea]

16. A religion started by a science fiction writer

And not a very good one at that!

[toymachines]

19. Tom Cruises mother is a good family friend, or was

She was hardcore Catholic and was good friends with my grandmother. Six months ago she started taking sci classes, and we haven't heard from her since. She used to visit once a year, and now my grams hasn't spoken to her for months. She even divorced her husband because of it. Thats fucked up! It is a dangerous cult that ruins lives. Just imagine the brainwashing involved. And it is a whacked out religion not deserving of the name. Tolerance is one thing, but not when it takes freedoms away from people.

[RandiFan1290]

29. It sounds like Amway

minus the soap.

[Ron Green]

21. Just from reading their introductory description, it sounds right on.

There's nothing on the face of it that doesn't make complete good sense. There must be all kinds of cultish elements surrounding Hubbard and his ways that put this group in the "whacko" camp.

[madeline_con]

24. Four words. Alien ghosts inside volcanos. 'Nuff said.

[devilgrrl]

26. Say! Isn't that Mr. Howell from Gilligan's Island?

:evilgrin:

[rzemanfl]

27. I live near Clearwater, the headquarters of Scientology. They

don't come to my door trying to bother me like some Christian groups do. Must a scam be run for 2,000 years to be considered a religion? Theirs is no sillier or greedier than the next guy's and I believe they leave little boys alone.

[cynatnite]

28. It's like any other organized religion in my book

No better and no worse...it's organized religion which I think is completely useless in society.

[Dr.Phool]

30. And they own half of Downtown Clearwater!!!

Hotels, office buildings etc.

Their headquarters is on some VERY expensive downtown, oceanfront property.

I drive by on occasion, and watch all the nice little zombies walk by, all dressed the same.

:crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly:

[FooFootheSnoo]

67. Yeah, I've noticed that too.

Very creepy. For a long time after I moved here I couldn't figure out who all the people in uniform in downtown Clearwater were. My brother finally told me they were scientologists.

[Book Lover]

32. Well, since Hubbard did not found it with the intention of it being

truthful, what can one expect? It was created as an over-lunch bet between him and Harlan Ellison.

[Beaverhausen]

33. Do you know any scientologists personally?

I know lots of scientologists.

I also know lots of christians.

Guess which group is more whacked?

[benburch]

35. BOTH.

Thats my experience. They are just whacked in different ways.

[Beaverhausen]

48. Right. So why is this "the most wacked out bullshit" the OP ever heard

Christianity is far more dangerous and wacked if you ask me. But that's just my opinion.

[maxsolomon]

38. is both an option?

Scientology is a religion if it says it is.

Christianity is a scam if non-believers say it is.

this thread will wind up pointless.

[papau]

34. It is a tax dodge that developed into a motivational business. In 1948

Hubbard won the Hugo and in his acceptance speech he went into a long rant on the evils of Federal Income Taxation and said he would start a religion to avoid such taxation.

It is interesting that there were folks in the 50's that viewed the motivational class sales as a religion.

And who knows, now without Hubbard it may evolve into a religion.

[salvorhardin]

58. That's not true

You're referring to the apocryphal bar bet with Robert Heinlein.

There were no Hugo Awards in 1948. The first Hugos were given out in 1953. Awards were retroactively given for 1946, 1951 and 1954 in 1996, 2001, and 2004 respectively. L. Ron Hubbard never won a Hugo.
http://worldcon.org/hy.html

[papau]

68. I stand corrected ???? - but that was the story in 62 at Asimov's spring

sci-fi picknic for the Boston University/MIT/Other Boston Sci-fi clubs (not told by Asimov as he was busy trying to get laid as I recall - just received wisdom from the crowd)).

The internet is amazing - I appear to have been told a variant of one of these: "Another variant is that Hubbard talked of starting a religion to avoid taxes. Jay Kay Klein reports that Hubbard said this in 1947." AND "Science fiction editor and author Sam Moscowitz tells of the occasion when Hubbard spoke before the Eastern Science Fiction Association in Newark, New Jersey in 1947: `Hubbard spoke ... I don't recall his exact words; but in effect, he told us that writing science fiction for about a penny a word was no way to make a living. If you really want to make a million, he said, the quickest way is to start your own religion.'" AND "After speaking for about an hour at the meeting, Mr. Hubbard answered questions from the audience. He made the following statement in response to a question about making money from writing: `You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.'" (The affidavit states that this was the 7 Nov 1948 meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association, of which Moskowitz was the director) AND "I always knew he was exceedingly anxious to hit big money - he used to say he thought the best way to do it would be to start a cult." (-- Sam Merwin, then the editor of the Thrilling SF magazines: quoted in Bare Faced Messiah p.133 from 1986 interview. Winter of 1946/47.) AND
"Around this time he was invited to address a science fiction group in Newark hosted by the writer, Sam Moskowitz. `Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous,' he told the meeting. `If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.' (-- Bare Faced Messiah p.148. Reference given to LA Times, 27 Aug 78. Supposed to have happened in spring 1949).





http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/scientology/start.a.religion.html

"To summarize: we have nine witnesses: Neison Himmel, Sam Merwin, Sam Moskowitz, Theodore Sturgeon, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, Harlan Ellison, and the three unnamed witnesses of Robert Vaughn Young. There is some confusion and doubt about one of them (Sam Moskowitz). Two are reported via Russel Miller: one is reported via Mike Jittlov: one reported in his autobiography; one reported in an affidavit; and one reported to me in person. The reports describe different events, meaning that Hubbard said it perhaps six times, in six different venues - definitely not just once. And the Church's official disclaimer is now reportedly a flat lie."



Thanks for the heads up on the Hugo being in error - and the truth being God knows what! :-)

[sproutster]

36. Jeeze I guess manson's little cult was ok too...

Because Scientology destroys lives via legal suits and exploiting their followers for money - They thrive on harrassment. Or is manson's little cult bad coz of the murders? Or Jim Jones coz of a little genocide... etc...

They pray on the weak.

[benburch]

39. Major resource on Scientology link here...

http://www.xenu.net <--- "Operation Clambake - The inner secrets of Scientology"

[fujiyama]

37. Scientology is nutty

but I find Islam and Christianity far more destructive.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

43. Because every Scientology thread needs it, here's OT3!

OT3 or "Operating Thetan level 3" is the super-secret history of the universe as revealed by elron his own bad self. This is the core teaching of the Church of Scientology. GENTLEMEN! BEHOLD:

The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger
stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very
space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet,
178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to
be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the
principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones
were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to
Las Palmas and there "packaged".

His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading
data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.

When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people)
captured him after six years of battle and put him in an
electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone.
The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length
and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never
recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc)
anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been
dispensed with by my tech development.

One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is
approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running
on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be
careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow
around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did
and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one
ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but
only that given here is needful.

One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or
to the body.

One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I.
It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing.
You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some
large, some small.

Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error.
Good luck.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

63. ... and in musical form

lyrics from OT3 by Enturbulator 009 (join to download the mp3)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=23466

L Ron Hubbard was a con man. A bloated, stupid charlatan. Its time to show his lies again.

L Ron Hubbard spent the last of his days in a Vistiril haze, with a BT craze, but let's talk about his earlier phase.

Wife beater, tax cheater, pill eater, lie repeater, e-meter, thought reader, mocked-up films in giant theaters.

He couldn't cut it in the Navy, he was found unfit for command - so when his book Dianetics was printed and was more successful than he planned - he took the money from his Freudian ripoff
routine, and started up a national pyramid scheme. I audit you, you audit me - everybody winds up clear, you see.

But Dianetics had a problem - it couldn't operate tax free, so Hubbard started a new scam - the church of $cientology.

Now clear wasn't good enough any longer and you had to be OT, and you had to pay a hundred thousand dollars or more just to make it up to OT3. "The wall of fire", the Xenu story - how Thetans were robbed of their formmer glory.

You see there was a fella by the name of Xenu, he was the galactic emperor and he knew that folks weren't gonna reelect him, so he hatched a plan to collect them. He froze them in glycol and alcohol
and packed them into DC-8's. He kidnapped tens of millions of them and transported them through space.
He brought them to the planet Teegeeack, which is the planet Earth we happen to be living on. He dropped them into live volcanos next, and blew up the volcanos with an H bomb.

And so - now when a Thetan reincarnates in a body, other Thetans stick to it and keep it working shoddy. Got to grab the cans, blow the rock-slams, purchasing a mind-fuck on the cult installment plan.

Shame on you Ron, for the lies you believed, and for the ones you don't, and for the folks you deceived.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/Lyrics.cfm?BandID=23466&songid=219149

-----------------------

(& while we're doing OT's, may as well mention the "Jesus was a paedophile" teaching in OT8:

"For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR."

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot8b.html

[rman]

50. Scientology Versus The Internet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Scientology_Versus_The_Internet

<snip>

In January 1995, Church lawyer Helena Kobrin attempted to shut down the Usenet discussion group alt.religion.scientology by sending a control message instructing Usenet servers to delete the group on the grounds that

(1) It was started with a forged message; (2) not discussed on alt.config; (3) it has the name "scientology" in its title which is a trademark and is misleading, as a.r.s. is mainly used for flamers to attack the Scientology religion; (4) it has been and continues to be heavily abused with copyright and trade secret violations and serves no purpose other than condoning these illegal practices. <26>

<snip>

The Church also began filing lawsuits against those who posted copies of its copyrighted scriptures on the newsgroup and the World Wide Web, and pressed for tighter restrictions on copyrights in general. The Church supported the controversial Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. The even more controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act was also strongly promoted by the Church and some of its provisions (notably the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act) were heavily influenced by Church litigation against US Internet service providers over copyrighted Scientology materials that had been posted or uploaded through their servers.

<more>

[rman]

52. Scientology vs Karin Spaink & ISP xs4all

www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/

"Fishman Affidavit"
www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/home.html

<snip>

When Fishman was then brought to court, he used parts of Scientology-documents to prove he had been brainwashed by the Church. These Scientology documents thereby became public material: anybody could go to the court library and read them. The Church, fearing that its sacred secrets would be revealed, had some of their people going to the library every day to borrow these documents, thereby preventing other people (read: non-Scientologists) from reading them. Nevertheless, the Fishman Affidavit got copied (it was also available through the clerk of the court, for a mere $36.50). Somebody retrieved the affidavit via the clerk, scanned it, and posted it to the net. The Fishman Affidavit has been travelling on the Internet ever since.

The funny thing is, when you read the document, you'll just see a bunch of gibberish. Apart from the instructions of how to treat non-Scientologists - almost every means is allowed to silence them; lying is common sense; cheating is part and parcel - there's just this silly and badly written science-fiction tale about Xenu who controls all of us people; except (of course) the few Scientologist who managed to 'clear' themselves. Well, L. Ron Hubbard was an sf-author, but not a very good one (and jeez, I happen to like the genre).

<more>

[ourbluenation]

53. Ah yes...theSea Orgs. I shit you not - high ranking scientolofreaks are

members of what they call the Sea Org. Calling Miss Holmes - your man Tom has got to be some sort of captain or general or whatever by now.

[Initech]

55. Go watch the most recent ep of South Park called "Trapped In The Closet"

Man, they SLANDER Scientology with Stan being the second coming of L. Ron Hubbard. It's hilarious.

[Jara sang]

56. I object to this thread being moved to Religion/Theology

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. It Is Where It Should Be, Shouldn't It?

Starting a thread debating the merits of christianity would likely end up here as well.

[LiviaOlivia]

60. If one recognizes Scientology as a religion

then you would be right.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

62. "$cientology $ucks" the album by Enturbulator 009

You'll need to join to download (I've never received spam) & there is a small obsession with Hubbard's homosexual / satanic dabblings with Jack Parsons, but otherwise these are generally good fun.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=23466

[trotsky]

65. I really don't understand.

If I started a thread entitled, "Christianiy is the most whacked out bullshit I've ever heard." it would get locked and/or deleted immediately. I happen to agree that $cientology is a complete farce, but the DU rules should either apply to all religions, or to none.

[beam me up scottie]

66. I concur.

As a matter of fact, we've protested this exact display of intolerance and hypocrisy before in this forum, and I do believe the threads in question were locked.

And as for the definition of the word "cult", I like this one the best:

A cult is a religion with no political power. ~ Tom Wolfe

:evilgrin:

[Ediacara]

69. Locking

The DU rules specifically state:

With regard to religion (or the lack thereof), Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and others. All are welcome here. For this reason, we expect members to make an extra effort to be sensitive to different religious beliefs, and to show respect to members who hold different religious beliefs. Members are welcome to discuss whether they agree or disagree with particular religious beliefs, but they are expected to do so in a relatively sensitive and respectful manner. As a general rule, discussions about ideas are usually permitted, but broad-brush bigoted statements about groups of people — either religious or non-religious — are not. If you are easily offended by discussions about religious beliefs, or if you take pleasure from offending or ridiculing people with different beliefs, or if you consider progressive people with different beliefs to be your enemy or your inferior, do not participate in religious discussions on Democratic Underground.

If you wish to discuss Scientology, please do so in a respectful and mature manner.