Inquisition was a mistake but legally justified, claims Vatican official

[emad]

Inquisition was a mistake but legally justified, claims Vatican official
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
(Filed: 30/01/2006)



The Vatican is preparing for fresh controversy over the Inquisition after allowing an official to appear in a television documentary to offer a defence of the "Holy Terror".



The Rev Joseph Di Noia, the Under-secretary of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, admits in a television series starting tonight that the use of torture and public burnings were "mistakes".

But the American-born cleric argues that these methods of suppressing heresy were explicable in the context of the times, when people believed passionately in heaven and hell.

Fr Di Noia's gloss on history is significant because the Congregation is the successor body to the Inquisition and, until last year, it was headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

The late Pope John Paul II apologised for the Inquisition in 2002.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/30/ninq30.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/30/ixhome.html

[emad]

1. Nobody expects....

[joeybee12]

4. Our three weapons, no, our four weapons...amongst our

weaponry...wait, I'll come in again.

[boobooday]

2. Sounds familiar

Sounds just like BushCo, defending their decision to invade a country that never attacked us.

[emad]

3. Extraordinary rendition not such a new idea after all....nor

Guantanamo.

[Silent3]

5. (Entering stage left...)

Nobody expects a legalistic defense of the Spanish Inquisition! :evilgrin:

Edit: I must type too slowly... I was beaten to it before I could click "Post Message". x(

[OneBlueSky]

6. wait a minute. . . the world's falling apart and the Vatican wants to . .

try justifying the Inquisition??? . . .

"stuck in the Middle Ages" is no lie . ..

[htuttle]

7. I suppose one could say the same about the Holocaust...

...since it was all legal according to the laws of Germany at the time.

I'm suprised Ratzinger, of all people, didn't point that out.

It was Jesus who was into lawbreakin', not the Church...

[bloom]

26. It just goes to show ya'

There is more to morality than laws.

[sui generis]

8. how many millions died in that "mistake"?

It's one thing to be speaking academically and make a statement like that in context of history, but to be a church leader and not thoroughly disown the inquisition and its methods as unChristian is unforgivable, because it implies that mistakes like this are acceptable.

The inquisitions were among the most gruesome low points of recorded history, and he calls it a "mistake".

The world doesn't need leadership (religious or political) that makes "mistakes" that cost millions of people their lives, horribly, and when it happens the current leadership has to distance itself with better rhetoric than qualifying it as a mistake.

However, in the interest of lending them rope, please catholic church, do go on, you're doing a splendid job of hanging yourself.

[Zhade]

17. Clearly the Vatican doesn't see the *Inquisition* as a mistake.

Just the methods, apparently.

Sadly, there are some here who would defend this.

[agingdem]

9. And I'm sure that...

every Jew who refused to convert and was burned to death understood "context of the times"...puleeze!

[edbermac]

10. Hey Torquemada whatya say? Just got back from the auto de fe

All pay heed! Now enters his holiness, Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition.
Torquemada - do not implore him for compassion.
Torquemada - do not beg him for forgiveness.
Torquemada - do not ask him for mercy.
Let's face it - you can't talk him outta anything!

The Inquisition (Let's begin)
The Inquisition (Look out sin)
We have a mission to convert the Jews (Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew)
We're gonna teach them wrong from right.
We're gonna help them see the light
and make an offer that they can't refuse. (That those Jews just can't refuse)

Confess, don't be boring.
Say yes, don't be dull.
A fact you're ignoring:
It's better to lose your skull cap than your skull (oy oy gevalt!)

The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquisition (here we go)
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

"I was sitting in a temple. I was minding my own business.
I was listening to a lovely Hebrew mass.
Then these Papist persons plundered and they throw me in a dungeon and they shove a red hot poker up my ass.
Is that considerate? Is that polite?
And not a tube of Preparation H in sight!"

"I'm sittin' flickin' chickens and I'm lookin' through the pickins' and suddenly these goyim pull down walls.
I didn't even know them and they grabbed my by the scrotum and started playing ping pong with my balls!
Ooh, the agony! Ooh, the shame!
To make my privates public for a game?"

The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquisition (here we go)
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to-

"Hey Torquemada, what do ya say?."
"I just got back from the Auto-de-fe."
"Auto-de-fe? What's an Auto-de-fe?"
"It's what you oughtn't to do but you do anyway."

Will you convert? "No, no, no, no."
Will you confess? "No, no, no, no."
Will you revert? "No, no, no, no."
Will you say yes? "No, no, no, no!"

Now I asked in a nice way, I said, "Pretty please."
I bent their ears, now I'll work on their knees!

"Hey Torquemada, walk this way.
We got a little game that you might wanna play,
so pull that handle, try your luck."
"Who knows, Toq, you might win a buck!"

"How we doin', any converts today?"
"Not a one, nay, nay, nay."
"We flattened their fingers, we branded their buns!
"Nothing is working! Send in the nuns!"

The Inquisition, what a show.
The Inquisition, here we go.
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away!
So all you Muslims and you Jews
We got big news for all of yous:
You'd better change your point of views TODAY!
'Cause the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Will historians in the future say

that Bush's methods of suppressing Constitutional rights and condoning torture were explicable in the context of the times?

[BiggJawn]

23. Well, his sycophants are saying that NOW...

Don't forget, History is written by the Victors, not the Victims.

[Goblinmonger]

12. Okay, okay, okay, okay, who am I?

Those people weren't real christians. You can't find any evidence that the people driving the Inquisition really believed Jesus was the son of God.

Thank you :applause: Thank you :applause: Thank you :applause: Don't forget to tip your servers.

[Silent3]

13. Won't most American fundamentalists tell you...

...that Catholics, not just members of the Inquisition but all Catholics, aren't "real" Christians?

[Goblinmonger]

14. That always floored me.

I grew up strict catholic (even went to seminary). After I was done with catholicism and in college, I was floored with the statements from people when they would say "I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian." What? We still have that mentality here on DU. Mormons are Christians according to some. Funny, my neighbor that is LDS says she's a Christian. She says she believes that Jesus is the son of God. But there you go.

[manic expression]

16. Well

I think what people are saying when they say someone isn't a "true" Christian is that while the Inquisitors were obviously Christian, it would be more than unfair to hold them up as representative of their religion. Just a thought.

I'm not Christian, in case you were wondering.

[Goblinmonger]

18. I know you're not christian

I actually do remember your discussion of your religion and, honestly, I do mull it over in my head once in a while. No more compelling than any other "religion," but it is something different.

But I would argue that the Inquisitors WERE the representatives of Christianity at that time. That is what Christianity was about. Many would argue that it is about very similar things now. The problem a lot of us have with the "No true christian" thing is really two-fold
1. It is a logical fallacy.
2. It smacks/is apologism to the highest degree. Don't change anything about the religion, just say that they aren't you.

[manic expression]

19. True

they were definitely representative of their religion at the time. It is also important to note the fact that the Inquisition was not a fringe group, but a group backed by the most powerful Christian figures of the day.

Christians with good intentions should (among other things) recognize that those past actions are representative of the religion, along with its history and legacy, and try their best to do better today.

...So I completely agree with you on this.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Holy crap

you and I agree on something? Wow. Clearly a time for :toast:

[manic expression]

21. On that point,

I agree!

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[InaneAnanity]

24. The people who murdered "heretics"...

...are just as christian as the suicide-bombers are muslim.

That is to say, they are ENTIRELY christian. They murdered for jesus. How sweet.

[funflower]

15. That's exactly what Sam Harris says. Crazy ideas lead to crazy acts.

What's the big deal (says Harris) about burning somebody at the stake if they're going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity anyway?

Sure. The Inquisition is indefensible; it's the product of indefensible thinking.

[genie_weenie]

22. Vatican is fucked up

The creation of the Medieval Inquistion was one of the most evil acts ever!

Read what the Catholic Enccyclopedia has too say about the masacre of the poor Cathars:

Ecclesiastical authority, after persuasion had failed, adopted a course of severe repression, which led at times to regrettable excess. Simon of Montfort intended well at first, but later used the pretext of religion to usurp the territory of the Counts of Toulouse. The death penalty was, indeed, inflicted too freely on the Albigenses, but it must be remembered that the penal code of the time was considerably more rigorous than ours, and the excesses were sometimes provoked.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01267e.htm

That's a helluva way to cover your ass for the butcher, rape, murder of some of the truest disciples of Christ I've ever read about... Severe Repression

[JVS]

25. Technically they're correct on that. There never were any laws...

against holding an inquisition, in fact some of the earliest persecution of non-christians by christians were done under the Roman laws that had previously been used to persecute the christians.