Question comparing "no graven images" for Judaism, Christianity, Islam

[uppityperson]

I had a thought on another topic about "the cartoons", isn't there an old testament Commandment about no graven images?

Wouldn't this apply to Judaism, Christianity, Islam equally? So why are there crucifixes and statues and those sorts of things, seems predominantly in some Christian sects? Should there be no cartoons, no representations for any of the big 3 religions (that spring from the same original source)?

This does not excuse anyone from responsibility for their actions (can a cartoon or image "make" you riot or hurt others) but a true wondering.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. It's talking about idol worshipping

[uppityperson]

3. I looked it up on Wikipedia, found interesting differences and similaritie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
Jewish Understanding
The ten statements
2. "You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Jewish Interpretation
2. "You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
One is required to believe in God and God alone. This prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities, gods, spirits or incarnations. To deny the uniqueness of God, is to deny all that is written in the Torah. (2)
It is also a prohibition against making or possessing objects that one or other may bow down to or serve such as crucifixes, and any forms of paintings or artistic representations of God. (3)
One must not bow down to or serve any being or object but God. (4)
One is prohibited from making sculpture of human beings even for the fine arts. (5)


Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christianit
"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."

- The text of what Catholics recognize as the first commandment precedes and follows the "no graven images" warning with a prohibition against worshipping false gods. Some Protestants have claimed that the Catholic version of the ten commandments intentionally conceals the biblical prohibition of idolatry. But the Bible includes numerous references to carved images of angels, trees, and animals (Exodus 25:18-21; Numbers 21:8-9; 1 Kings 6:23-28 1 Kings 6:29; Ezekiel 41:17-25) that were associated with worship of God. Catholics and Protestants alike erect nativity scenes or use felt cut-outs to aid their Sunday-school instruction. (While not all Catholics have a particularly strong devotion to icons or other religious artifacts, Catholic teaching distinguishes between veneration (dulia) -- which is paying honor to God through contemplation of objects such as paintings and statues, and adoration (latria) -- which is properly given to God alone.)


Jehovah's Witness
Second - Images are never to be used in worship - all forms of idolatry are an open affront to Jehovah. (Vs.4-6)

Muslim Understanding
Commandment 2: Thou shall make no image of God.
Qur'anic Equivalent: "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols." (14:35)

---------------
Finally we to Idolatry

See main articles: Idolatry, Idolatry in Judaism, Idolatry in Christianity, Idolatry in Islam

Christianity holds that the essential element of the commandment not to make "any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above" is "and bow down and worship it". Thus, they hold that one may build and use "likenesses", as long as the object is not worshipped. As a result, many Christian buildings and services feature images, some feature statues, and in some Orthodox services, icons are venerated. For most Christians, this practice is understood as fulfilling the observance of this commandment, as the images are not being worshipped.

Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that the incarnation of God as a human, Jesus, makes it permissible and necessary to venerate icons.

For Jews and Muslims(and some Protestants as well), veneration seems to violate this commandment. Jews and Muslims read this commandment as prohibiting the use of idols and images in any way.

Very few Christians oppose the making of any images at all, but some groups have been critical of the use others make of images in worship. (See iconoclasm.) In particular, the Orthodox have criticized the Roman Catholic use of decorative statues, Roman Catholics have criticized the Orthodox veneration of icons, and some Protestant groups have criticized the use of stained-glass windows by many other denominations. Jehovah's Witnesses criticize the use of all of the above, as well as the use of the cross. They believe Jesus was killed on a torture stake and not a cross, and they accentuate the pagan origins of the symbol. (Conversely, critics counter that the Jehovah's Witnesses conveniently ignore the phallic connection of an upright stake, although they do not use it as a religious symbol.) Amish people forbid any sort of graven image, such as photos.

[renter]

8. Hi Uppity, maybe I can help...

with the Christian part. In the Old Testament God instructs the Jews not to worship animate and/or inanimate objects AS a god. Such idol worship among the Canaanites for example gave rise to sacrificing children by burning them alive.
Some groups would worship a fertility object via prostitution with men, women, and children or all of the above. You can see about the same thing today with the worship of money and wealth,fame and power. Christian symbols are viewed NOT AS a god, but as a way of "visualizing" an unseen God into something physical one can see or touch. The crucifix and rosary beads are an example. A favourite hymn is another. The crucifix IS NOT God, it forms a tangible connection that a physical mortal can relate to immortal God. The example Jesus gave at the last supper is another example. Hope this helps.

[Goblinmonger]

13. It's like Mooby in Dogma

And remember to say "God Bless You" when a crazy angel who is threatening to kill every everyone comes into your boardroom and sneezes.

[11cents]

2. Eastern Orthodox Christianity had its "no graven images" spell

The "Iconoclasm Crisis" in the Byzantine Empire, when icons were destroyed because they were considered idolatrous.

For whatever reason, Judaism and Islam maintain a strict taboo on the notion that it's possible or appropriate to convey the image of God visually. Christianity includes the notion of God incarnated as a man who lived out his life on earth like any other, so maybe that's one of the reasons that it has a different attitude in general -- if God was a man, why not paint a picture of him as you would any other man? Or maybe it's cultural, with Judaism and Islam maintaining a reaction against pagan practices of the ancient Middle East and Mediterranean.

[madmom]

4. I often wondered about this, how they "idolize" the virgin Mary,

and pray to statues of this st. or another depending on what they ask for. Isn't this considered worshiping idols?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. Technicality

Mary is a middleman or middleperson. You pray to her to intervene and advocate for you.

She's kind of a heaven lawyer. Maybe even Attorney General.

[Goblinmonger]

14. It's Martin Luther back from the dead!

That is one of the main things that will stop a reunification of catholics and lutherans. That and transubstantiation.

[Inland]

6. There's been different applications of "no idol worship".

One one extreme there's the iconoclasts, which don't allow any representations at all. There was a period of that in christianity, but the extreme expression is in Islam, where any depiction of Mohammad is forbidden. Whereas most christian sects today allow depictions of just about anything and anyone as long as it is not itself worshipped, that is, don't worship the statue but use the statue as a meditation tool for something else.

The problem being the original sources, I suppose. There's not a really clear prohibition against any representations, so you can pretty much draw the line anywhere it makes sense. I suspect that the important thing is making a distinction with the other cultures, that is, both the hebrews and the early muslims were trying to avoid the practices of cultures they were trying to supplant, and christianity, having been adopted by greeks and romans with a tradition of secular statuary, painting, tile, etc, found a place for it. But that's a guess.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

7. It can lead to some odd results

I recall one of my old teachers telling me that someone in the Muslim world wanted to make a film biography about Mohammed. The film was made, but because there could be no depiction of Mohammed, the entire film was his point of view, and there was no "voice of Mohammed," so the other actors pretty much had to repeat what the Prophet had just supposedly said, then respond to it, like someone talking on the phone in a low-budget film.

"Good morning Mohammed, how are you today? You say you are fine? Excellent. Would you care for breakfast? You would? You say you want a piece of fish with some yogurt? I will get it." etc.

[Inland]

9. Did that movie ever get made, or released?

I thought it was an animated version, and I remember hearing about it's problem. The way you describe it is pretty funny, and if it came out anywhere near that lame, it wouldn't be produced.

[charlie]

10. It was produced

I remember it. Not just once, twice, concurrently. One version for the mideast and one for the western infidels. The speculation that the Prophet was going to be portrayed in the flesh (by an American actor) reached fever pitch before opening, prompting bombings and hostage-taking, including an incident in the US. The whole episode was a comedy of dashed hopes for the devout Muslim whose only dream was to create an epic on a par with the likes of Gone With the Wind for the Muslim world.

[Inland]

11. And an epic it would have been.

As religious, political and military leader, Mohammed's bio story makes movie sense. I don't remember any bombings or hostage takings, though.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

12. Couldn't say

I heard about it 20 years ago, and I don't know any other information about it.

[Goblinmonger]

15. Isn't that the problem with most biblical interpretations?

You can draw the lines at any point you want. It is pretty wide open to interpretation across the board. If it weren't, we wouldn't have 5000 sects of Christianity with divisions based on, in the big scope of things, relatively minor differences.