Republicans don't scare me, THESE people scare me!

[GOPFighter]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-creation11feb11,0,6286102,full.story

Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With dinosaur puppets and silly cartoons, he was training them to reject much of geology, paleontology and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.

"Boys and girls," Ham said. If a teacher so much as mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, "you put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"

The children roared their assent.

"Sometimes people will answer, 'No, but you weren't there either,' " Ham told them. "Then you say, 'No, I wasn't, but I know someone who was, and I have his book about the history of the world.' " He waved his Bible in the air.

"Who's the only one who's always been there?" Ham asked.

"God!" the boys and girls shouted.

"Who's the only one who knows everything?"

"God!"

"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?"

The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

How would you like be a 5th grade teacher trying to teach the curriculum, and be confronted by student activists trained in church to confront evolution with simple questions like, "Excuse me, where you there?" How many elementary school teachers have enough background in biological science to combat these stupid, in-you-face questions?

Over the last two decades, this type of "creation evangelism" has become a booming industry. Several hundred independent speakers promote biblical creation at churches, colleges, private schools, Rotary clubs. They lead tours to the Grand Canyon or the local museum to study the world through a creationist lens.

They churn out stacks of home-schooling material. A geology text devotes a chapter to Noah's flood; an astronomy book quotes Genesis on the origins of the universe; a science unit for second-graders features daily "evolution stumpers" that teach children to argue against the theory that is a cornerstone of modern science.

If this gains enough momentum, teachers will just avoid teaching kids science rather than spend whole class periods arguing apples to a bunch of kudzo who aren't interested in the truth, but in scoring points.

Ham's daily 90-second broadcasts — on themes such as life in the Garden of Eden — are heard on more than 1,000 radio stations worldwide. He's building a $25 million Creation Museum near the Cincinnati international airport...

...As the session ended, Nicole Ableson, 34, rounded up her four young children. "This shows your kids that there are other people who are out there who believe what you believe, and who have done the research," she said. "So they don't think 'This is just my parents believing in fairy tales.' "

Emily Maynard, 12, was also delighted with Ham's presentation. Home-schooled and voraciously curious, she had recently read an encyclopedia for fun — and caught herself almost believing the entry on evolution. "They were explaining about apes standing up, evolving to man, and I could kind of see that's how it could happen," she said.

Ham convinced her otherwise. As her mother beamed, Emily repeated Ham's mantra: "The Bible is the history book of the universe."

Already polls show that about half of the American public believe in creationism. Understanding the science behind evolution requires a knowledge of science and the scientific method. For a population like ours that likes our news in quick sound bites and prefers simple solutions to complex problems, I can believe the simplicity of creationism to grow to the point where we can fully expect to see some major, acrimonious fights all over the country, even in upper income suburbs.

I firmly believe the American people will soon turn on the Bush Administration that is trying to make our country a fascist nation and embrace democracy and a balance of power again. I don't have the same confidence that Americans will be able to resist the religious zealots who want to push our country back into the dark ages where "the church" makes all the decisions for us.

[zanne]

1. These people are Republicans. nt

[Faygo Kid]

3. Beat ya to it, but I agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=388715&mesg_id=388715

[mconvente]

8. these people are morans

stupid fucking anti-science people

[GOPFighter]

10. Sorry, I know some Democrats who believe creationism

They happen to be devout catholics and send their kids to parochial schools. They hate Bush, but are very religious (in fact it is probably their religious beliefs that cause them t hate Bush.) This is a bigger problem than politics.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Interesting. No catholic I know believes in creationism.

Even the one hard-core born again one who goes on dinosaur digs during his vacation.

[GOPFighter]

21. Hey BMUS!

Seems that there are some liberal Catholics who are being pulled to the right by their conservative bretheren. They use the word "but" a lot.

[beam me up scottie]

23. Hi, GOPF! Most of the catholics I grew up with

don't go to church now, except for weddings and funerals.

It's weird, they only share one priest for all of the parishes.

[rawtribe]

2. Emily Maynard

will be scrubbing the toilets of the kids who learn science.

:puke:

[Quakerfriend]

4. As a scientist,

this stuff makes me sick to my stomach. And, I am a deeply religious person.

One thing I've noticed lately is the MSM keeps pushing the notion that *co. is all for improving our kids education in science. What a laugh! It's just more of the same from these crooks-

Pretend to care about a certain issue one day, and the next day slash funding for it.

I'm very happy to say that my 7th grader is receiving a marvelous educ with regards to REAL science- this in a strongly repug school district.

[raysr]

5. It's scary stuff all right,

but it never lasts long. They always overreach and then are beaten back under the rocks where they belong. All religions are cults, and BS. Some years ago 86% of americans said they were xians, now less than 74% say they are. Don't ask me for a link, read it in a Mark Morford column a couple of weeks ago that had a link. " All this pseudo-Christian panic is merely the last spasm of a dying dogma. Which is to say, conservatives may wail and religions may pule, but love winks and shrugs and evolves anyway, despite them both."

[glitch]

13. He's got a way with words, doesn't he?

"love winks and shrugs and evolves anyway"

[Maat]

18. My hubby has a Master's in Chemical and Materials Engineering.

So, needless to say, we are seeing to it that our kid gets a good science education.

My husband is a Pastafarian ( www.venganza.org ); I'm a universalist and a member of the Church of Religious Science ( www.religiousscience.org and/or www.rsintl.org ).

So, I'm a person of faith, who sees evolution, and science and faith as being VERY compatible.

The evolutionary system is INTELLIGENT DESIGN (or, it's a great system anyway).

[trotsky]

6. I wish more doctors would start doing this:

[JohnnyRingo]

7. At the first parent/teacher conference

Ask the child's parents if perhaps a home-schooled environment may be better suited to the family in light of their disdain for public education.

Then they're free to fill their kid's head with whatever nonsense they see appropriate and send them into the job market to compete.

I know this won't work, because their goal is to change what our kids learn, of course.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. When these kids grow up...

Half will be card-carrying Repugnicans, and half will be drug-addicted messes, unable to recover from the f*cked up childhood they had to endure.

[MatrixEscape]

11. That is only the tip

and in the mystical tradition, even though the creation of Adam is non-procreational, Adam did not become a "living soul" until god breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, (he was clay at the time).

This is overlooked by religious factions pushing the political wedge-issue. You can argue with it, since it is the symbolic storytelling of ancient, spiritual thought, but the issue is often avoided and even ignored later-on in the bible. Just because god, "knew you in the womb" that does not override the requirement of the "breath of life" in order to have the status of living soul, versus dependent organism/fetus.

We can also question why the tradition of the “birthday” has held fast. If our personal lives begin at conception ... darn, we are all three months short of a year older, ey?

I would balance that with the idea of a respect for life and its potential. A fetus is certainly a potential human being, from there, one makes personal choices that are sacred to the individual/prospective parent. Someone who does not want to, or does not feel ready to, bring another person into the World, for various reasons, can be just as loving and compassionate as someone who is eager to do so.

With free-will, as is a theme of the spiritual con-game of, “You are born a sinner ... oh and WE have the solution, BTW!” there has to be the capacity to make choices, hence removing those choices and making the decision for other sinners seems antithetical to the proposition.

I can think of nothing worse than being an “unwanted” child and to choose without interference is more sacred than placing the fetus on a pedestal to worship.

of the theocratic iceberg!

If you recall the red-scare menace during the cold war and the propaganda concerning it, and you imagined it was real, and you applied it to the political activities of the Dominonist movements and their political impact, in scope and impact, then you would have a rough idea of what is boiling and bubbling under the superficial glimmerings you get now and then as observable results.

Liberals and dems are too far removed from this activity, in most cases, to really get a handle on the fundies and just how much they have in the works. The big picture shows that the Handmaiden's Tale is merely a romp in the woods compared to the comprehensive and totalitarian, Fundamentalist movement stirring rabidly under the radar.

I would prognosticate that their Achilles heel is the fragmented, disjointed nature of their ideologies. While infighting over whose interpretation of the Bible is most correct and sanctified, (and there are hundreds) may weaken their convergence and dominance, it may take the more rational, reasonable, and compassionate members of the religion, to offer any real and viable opposition to this pox on liberty and democracy, et al.

Sadly, the wolf wears the sheep's clothing and the assumption is that the religious are mostly altruistic and respectful of our political system. This is absolutely NOT the case and an overthrow is certainly a potential issue. Yes, they have made major inroads within the system, but by overthrow I mean a complete transition to a Theocracy.

Only awareness, research, and opposition will for stall or eliminate the Dominionist threat to America. In this case, knowledge is power and time is an issue. Be diligent or bow-down to their doctrines after the power grab they are fomenting.

[ccpup]

12. Try this!

A daughter of a friend of mine was faced with that "were you there?" question followed by the "I know someone who was" statement not long ago. The man then held up his Bible and said "he wrote it all in here. Who are you going to believe?" My friend's daughter raised her hand and asked if she was supposed to believe everything she read. The man begrudgingly, I guess, answered "yes" to which she replied "so, Jessica (Simpson) really IS pregnant and Madonna and Mariah really DO hate each other?" The man gave her a strange look and she said "well, it was WRITTEN in the Enquirer at the store, so it must be true ... right?"

I guess the class kinda lost faith in the man after that. That story still cracks me (and the girl's mother) up.

[TankLV]

14. If I was a teacher, a simple retort is always handy:

Here's your pass to the prinicpal's office - you can leave immediately.

I will tolerate NO distruptions/disruptors in class.

END OF STORY.

[Whoa_Nelly]

15. The people exposed in this video scare the hell out of me.

EVERYONE should watch the video "Arsenal of Hypocrisy" to fully understand the bigger picture of the grand plan. This is a documentary, NOT a conspiracy video.

Arsenal of Hypocrisy:
The Space Program and the Military Industrial Complex
http://www.arsenalofhypocrisy.com/index.asp

I watched this the other night on Free Speech TV (FSTV). http://www.freespeech.org/fscm2/genx.php?name=home

It is the most compelling and telling documentary I have ever watched.

It's about thw why's and how's of unraveling our constitution, allowing people to die, creating wars, using pre-emptive strikes...all for the larger plan for controlof gold nad oil, for wealth and greed.

What the BushCo administration and PNAC thugs are doing is of huge design, it boggles the mind. Watching this video really puts it all in perspective..and it's scarier than hell, and made me mad as hell as it was explained.

Arsenal of Hypocrisy can also be requested as a library item through Project Peacemakers at: http://tinyurl.com/9b7o4

Are you outraged about the current state of affairs within our government? Are you wondering why there is so much meddling by this administration and what appears to be ugly and/or weird mistakes in foreign policy and military actions?

Please take the time somehow to watch this documentary.

It will make sense.

Our nation, our world is headed for greater disaster than ever known in its entire unrecorded and recorded history.

[Boojatta]

16. Given any claims about events long before you were born, what prevents

you from writing a book that makes those claims and that states that the information comes from God?

[Zenlitened]

17. Religion is killing the world. Again.

:(

How far will the fall be this time, now that we are in many respects a global civilization? Will there be any pockets of enlightenment left, to someday pick up the pieces and rebuild?

[charlie]

20. The New Lysenkoism

You can see from the article that evolution is just the toehold they needed to turn education and research from free inquiry into cant. They're already rejiggering astronomy and geology. History, social sciences, philosophy, literature... they'll all soon get the treatment.

What's reeeeally gonna gall me... if their efforts to secure God's blessings turn the country into a third world hellhole, no one will be angrier than the boobs who did it. Angry with everyone but themselves. Again. And so it goes...

[NMMNG]

22. The Bible is not a history or science text

Therefore it has no place in either type of class.

Any child who wants to know "were you there" can be told, "no, but scientists have discovered empirical evidence from that time, which is more than you can say of what is written in your Bible". (And no, referring to the Bible as evidence of what is written in the Bible doesn't work. That is circular reasoning.)

[f-bush]

24. No kidding..fundy is just a nicer name for nazi!

[Odin2005]

25. It's starting to remind me of late antiquity when anti-rationalism...

...and mysticism spread through the Roman Empire. German historian Oswald Spengler, of Decline of the West fame, said that Mysticism, anti-rationalism, and fascist-type despotism were the signis of a civilization in terminal decline.