for those of us that used to be fundies

[zonmoy]

how was it that you managed to get away from fundie belief. For me I suppose it was that I read pretty much everything I could get my hands on and the more I read and saw the less sense fundamentalism or as my families church called it evangelicalism made

[beam me up scottie]

1. Excellent subject.

The courage of the people on DU who have escaped just blows me away.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

2. Education

And curiosity, and being separated from the flock.

Thank dog.

[beam me up scottie]

3. I think he's looking for details.

It can't have been that easy for everyone.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

9. I was being minimalist

Education really was the key, as was separation from the flock.

No professor at my hometown U would ever have had the courage to teach the way my religion profs did where I wound up going. Taking a coherent look at the Synoptic Gospels had a great deal to do with it, and comparing those with the Gospel of Thomas.

Kurt Vonegut was critical, as well, especially "Sirens of Titan." "Thank God." "Why?'

"Why," indeed?

[smtpgirl]

12. education

of everything, get anything that you can get your hands on.

Different points of view give you a broader thought, new ideas, new ways of doing things

[smtpgirl]

10. exactly

it is a state of mind, no pointers here

[smtpgirl]

14. maybe that is why we do DU

so many opinions here, much to learn

[beam me up scottie]

20. Yes, that's it.

And to feel solidarity, as well.

Those of us who live in red states need to belong to the thing that is DU.

[libhill]

24. Or

risk losing our sanity - :)

[beam me up scottie]

25. Yes, that too.

I feel like I've gone way past that point many times.

I have to keep telling myself:

"BMUS, you'll go to jail if you run over them with your car, and what would the animals do if you're not there to take care of them?"

[GOPFighter]

29. I'm glad you have pets

Otherwise we'd have to break you out of jail.

[babylonsister]

4. So was it religion or politics that sealed the deal?

And if it was religion, why come to DU?
I'm honestly curious as I have an older brother who has sipped, neah, quaffed the Kool-Aid, both religious and political.
I bow to your knowledge. Thanks!

[zonmoy]

27. could not both have proven a problem to be looked at

to me liberalism seemed to be much closer to what christ seemed actually to be teaching as well as the fact that I am on disability and will always vote where my economic interests lie. also I hate censorship with a passion believing that all veiwpoints need to be heard and would love for pbs to be made much more like the bbc. another thing is that I believe that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they neither decieve, intimidate, or use force against another person. also I see the powerfull and I think that they need to be limited so they are not allowed to use their power to harm others.

[Goblinmonger]

5. I came from red state hell

I grew up in rural North Dakota. My parents were both staunch Republicans (racist, devout catholic, the whole nine yards). My three older brothers are still Kool-Aid drinkers. My older sister (16 years my senior) is a liberal. She and I are the only two that went to college. I graduated high school from a catholic seminary and left with the twinkle that catholicism (and religion as a whole) and Republicanism were a crock of shit. Then I hit college. I was always an avid reader and read some Bertrand Russell my Freshman year. I was actually encouraged to think and that started me on the path to the far-left atheist I am today. I married a very liberal woman in 1987 and passed her on the spectrum a couple years later (she is still very liberal, don't get me wrong).

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. I came to a terrifying realization ...

I was taught that to bring the Messiah, all you had to do was get the entire Jewish nation to observe the Sabbath for two consecutive weeks. So, I deduced, if you killed everyone who wasn't observant, in a couple of weeks they'd be back anyway ... so wasn't it justified?

Brilliant, wouldn't you say, for a twelve year old? Scared me silly, because the first doubt entered my mind - what if what I had been taught was wrong?

That thought broke the spell and everything else, as we like to repeat, is commentary - go and study.

[libhill]

7. Wasn't raised in a fundie church, but-

I believe that anyone who would sit down and read the Bible thoroughly, would quickly reach the conclusion that it is full of contradictions, anachronisms, and absurdities. It couldn't possibly be true. And it's glaringly obvious that Christianity is simply a re-working of dozens of pre existing "dieing / suffering savior" myths. Religion is the root of all evil in the world. It will be a much better place when and if mankind ever progresses beyond the primitive, idiotic god worshiping phase. We can only hope.

[Goblinmonger]

8. I forgot to mention

in my post that reading the bible, the whole bible, was part of the beginning of the end for me. It was my Junior year and my spritual advisor thought it would be a good think. I have been an avid reader since pre-kindergarten. Once I started reading it all, I realized that so much of what we were taught was dogma was just metaphor and that there was some really heinous and contradictory shit in there. Ironic that my Catholic priest spritual advisor helped me on my road to atheism.

[libhill]

11. Indeed -

He did you a great favor, and never even realized what he was doing. :)

[beam me up scottie]

13. That's interesting.

I had the same thought when someone posted in this forum about people reading the bible in the subway.

Maybe if more people actually READ it, I mean REALLY read it, instead of having it read TO them, they'd realize that the fundies have been leading them around like sheep.

[libhill]

17. Right

And I think that therein lies a lot of the problem. Too many people never bother to blow the dust off of their Bible and actually READ the thing. As you say, they allow their respective priest or preacher to read it and interpret it for them. At most, they read a snippet of "scripture" here and there, maybe in conjunction with a Sunday sermon or a class they're taking. But I have to wonder how many people actually bother to read the whole thing objectively, and then follow up with their own research. It doesn't take a rocket scientist with an advanced degree, to realize that religion is hog wash.

[beam me up scottie]

22. I've also known people who read it

and it made them realize that the fundies have it all wrong.

They're attracted to Jesus and his message, and because of that, they reject the hateful dogma.


I'm an uppity atheist, but I appreciate any kind of critical thought that leads to tolerance.

Even if it leads many to believe in gods whose existence I doubt.

[smtpgirl]

15. the bible for me

was folk tales, stories handed down and scribed. Whatever the author, that is what the reader gets, their interpretation, not ours or mine

[zonmoy]

36. indeed

reading the bible and a lot of other books and websites is what really changed my belief system from religious right to not relitious.

[Dr.Phool]

19. Exactly! Read the bible, and if you can comprehend what you're reading

You'll understand that it's full of shit! I was raised in a fundy church and family, and started having some cognitive dissonance. If Jesus loves you, why would he send people to hell for eternity who had never heard of him?

Then I started studying astronomy. And Carl Sagan was a great inspiration.

I'm glad I've been free of those shackles for about 30 years.

[libhill]

23. Good point there -

If Jesus / God loved humanity, then why would he condemn so many people to hell? That was a major problem for me before I became an agnostic. After, if God is so all powerful, and "Jesus is the way and the life", why so many different religions in the world? And why should people suffer for eternity in hell, for the simple reason that they were born into a different culture, on a different continent, perhaps one where Jesus / Christianity is marginalized or completely unheard of? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

40. Christianity irks me incessantly,

simply for the fact that it too-often takes others' ideas and pretends as if they are all brand-spanking-new. Well, lookie there, that ain't so.

:eyes:

[Lars39]

16. I crashed and burned all sudden-like around the time of my mom's death.

Fundies get really weird around the terminally ill.
I'm still recovering from the spiritual/mental abuse, post-traumatic stress.
Can't stand to be around fundies now.
It's not good for anyone's mental health.

[fknobbit]

18. I have talked to some of my fellow military retirees

On various forums that profess change, I think with reluctance. I have this strange feeling that I'm talking to Dr. Strangelove. You just know that they will buy almost any excuse to revert.

[Sabien]

21. healthy doses of...

...Bill Moyers and the Nation in college.

[w13rd0]

26. Those around me...

...were under the impression I was fairly intelligent and a good debater. This was back in the late 80s, early 90s. I went to a southern baptist college, and did a lot of study in biblical apologetics. But the more I read, the more questions I had. And the logical leaps made to force the world to agree with the ideaology were flabberghasting. Even then though, I wasn't with the "Christian Right". I was raised by two women, I had a decidedly "liberal" bent in my approach to social issues and I found Biblical foundation in rejecting the wrong-headedness of much of what they were preaching. In the political process, I would far more frequently vote for Independents or third-party candidates. But of course, going to a southern baptist college, my conclusions were demonized and railed against as heretical. I found myself asking, "Why subject myself to what I know to be wrong?" I met far too many hypocrites, saw too much hatred in the name of Jesus. And I had enough exposure to other points of view to begin to filter the noise. I had a talent for getting inside people's heads, and the more I did, the more I came to the conclusion that people were, generally speaking, more animal than divine or sublime. From there, I attribute the continuation of my journey to evolution as a person. Seems a common theme here, but I will echo it. Questions & education. Reading everything and believing nothing. Discovery that being a humane and decent person was more important than the form of a persons faith.

I rejected monolithic ideaologies because everything that lives changes. The very essence of life is change, fluidity. This ran quite contrary to the teachings of all the worlds monotheistic faiths. Examining the social impact and historical developments of world religions, including Christianity, convinced me that religion was at its root an attempt to conjure permanence where none exists. It's a cynics way of convincing people to "do good" without believing they are intelligent enough to do so without threat of eternal punishment. And everything I read and studied, from the Christian perspective, could easily be turned completely on its ear by challenging its principle tenant, that "God is good". I found little supporting evidence of that goodness. It became a "War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Obedience is Freedom" sort of proposal. The original sin, and that which according to mythology got Satan tossed out of heaven, was pride. The audacity to "question God" was the unforgivable, and that was unacceptable.

My time on that side of the fence I now view as an anomoly. I've essentially returned to the ideaology of my youth, having accepted that the troubles I went through as a teen could be attributed more to harmones than the invisible hand of a god or satan.

It certainly "felt" sincere enough at the time, but that was probably just the harmones. The "warm feeling" from helping someone, or listening to them, is something I still experience. Reverence for "all of Creation" is something I still have. All of that which I might have considered "positive" is still accessible, and without the baggage of a psychologically and spiritually crippling ideaology.

[GOPFighter]

28. I'm glad you asked!

Heh, I'm always happy to talk about my escape from lunacy.

Growing up in a fundamentalist church it seemed like the there was a big disconnect between what was taught and how the congregation acted. Then I joined the Air Force and got away from my small Bible Belt town and my family.

I entered the Air Force as a RW fundamentalist but found I was drawn to the the liberals in the barracks because they were smart and curious. Whenever I tried to interject my religion and politics they kept asking me questions I couldn't answer. Four years later when I left the Air Force I was a liberal, and pretty non-religious.

Then I went to college and soon realized that everything I had been taught about history, religion, and politics as a kid was a lie. EVERYTHING! I realized I had to relearn everything from scratch. I learned to think and evaluate facts for myself. Eventually I was able to admit to myself that the Christian religion was the most illogical set of beliefs imaginable.

This has been a long process however, and not without a lot of anger and pain.

[doni_georgia]

30. I just one day snapped out of it - literally

We belonged to a charimatic church - one that was part of the Toronto Blessing/Prophetic movement. We had been non-religious before friends had gotten to us and "saved" us. This church was like a cult - we quit seeing our friends and got new friends in this church. I didn't agree with every thing the church did, and at first they all said it was okay. But the longer we were there the more we were expected to accept everything spoken in the church as God's Word. I went with the women of the church to a prophetic conference at Mike Bickel's Internation House of Prayer. I felt NOTHING. They were all talking about how great it was, and I was sitting there thinking - "what a racket!" We sat in for a "prophetic reading" - basically a fundy psychic session. The stuff the guy told me was all false - I could have done better with Tarot cards. When we got home I really started listening to what was being said in church for a change instead of just getting caught up in the emotions. These people were nuts. The final straw came one day when I realized my mike had been shut off (I sang and played keyboards on the praise team). I asked about it, and was told that someone had gotten a word that I was backsliding. That same day someone said my children were rebellious and disobedient because I was out of God's will. When we got home that day I just snapped out of it completely. It was like I had been hypnotized and someone snapped their fingers. I never went back and never looked back. It took my husband a little longer. But he eventually snapped out of it as well. I currently have no real idea what I believe, and that's okay with me.

[MikeH]

Deleted dupe post

[MikeH]

31. What you say reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes

They all talk about how great and wonderful it is, just like the Emperor's New Clothes, and everybody is expected to go along; there must be something wrong with anybody who doesn't.

[doni_georgia]

34. That's exactly what it was like

I remember one church service that everyone claimed the "Shekinah Glory" of the lord fell on the church. People were falling out all over the place, laying in the floor "drunk in the spirit." I was sitting there watching everyone. It was very odd watching all these people hyped into a frenzy who truly believed that God's spirit was doing this to everyone. Even more interesting was looking around at the people who, like me, felt nothing. It was an eye-opening moment. After that day, many of the people who sat and watched just quit coming. They saw it for what it was. Like you said, the Emperor had no clothes.

[MikeH]

37. Shekinah -- Is that at all like, or related to, Shock and Awe?

[doni_georgia]

39. More like everyone in the room but me was tripping on acid

[catbert836]

32. Not exactly fundamentalist, but

here was my antidote to the ultra-conservative Catholicism I was brought up into:

1. I have an uncle who's an athiest, as well as a Marxist. So, needless to say, he's a really cool dude. Hearing my dad tell me he, and many other really great people, were going to hell just didn't seem to click for me.
2. Reading fundie literature. It scared the shit out of me, especially the Left Behind series, and to a lesser extent, the Screwtape Letters.
3. The good people here on DU helped to wake me up to all that religious ignorance.

[toddaa]

33. Intense belief and doubt at the same time

I was desparate to believe. I remember spending hours in prayer asking for faith. But the harder I prayed, the less I believed. My whole world was defined by people who were fervently moved by the power of belief. In high school, I went through about a three year period in which I was the ultimate fundamentalist. But at the same time, I didn't believe any of it. I can't really explain the contradiction, but looking back I know that being a fundamentalist ultimately led me to total rejection of all supernatural belief. If I had been a moderate, I'd still be a Christian.

I know a common attack on atheists is that we are just hate God. Not true. There is no God (whatever that is), so there's nothing to hate. However, I do hate Christianity. It is a hideously loathsome belief system and I cannot find a single redeeming virtue in any of it. Jesus may be a champion of the poor and downtrodden to Christians, but he is a miserable anti-intellectual tyrant to me. I know and respect many Christians, but I despise their beliefs. I have come to hold the same opinion of other religious beliefs as well, but when you are subjected to a mindfuck like Christian fundamentalism, you can never let go of your first intense hatred towards something that robbed you of a childhood free from mental anguish.

If I could kill it, I would.

[unschooler]

35. I really started questioning when I read church history.

I'd always been the most devout, serious, earnest kind of Christian. Then I began to understand where the Bible and our other Christian beliefs actually came from, and I realized that my belief system was (to borrow a phrase) "built on sand." It took me about 10 years to get completely deprogrammed (not always sure I am yet).

For me, deconversion was a frightening and socially painful process. But, now that I'm "free at last," I have so much more peace of mind. The other great, unexpected benefit is that now I'm much more open to people and have developed a lot of wonderful relationships that I would have missed had I stayed "inside the Matrix" of traditional Christianity.

[varkam]

38. The thing that I think a lot of people don't realize...

is that certain types of religious indoctrination can lay the groundwork for something much resembling Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder later in life - and I think this is especially true with fundamentalism, as it tends to be fundamentalists who will 'beat the sin' out of the child, etc. More secularly minded individuals tend not to do such things.

People crave certainty, and fundamentalism is one way to provide that answer. The problem, however, comes once people begin to realize that we don't really live in that kind of a world - things tend to be much more complicated and nuanced and shrouded in shades of grey. I whole-heartedly agree with several of the posts that mentioned education as a way to transition from such a life - it's importance cannot be over-stressed.