My biggest problem with fundamentalism

[EstimatedProphet]

Many, if not all, of the fundamentalist sects believe that the Bible is the whole and complete word of God. It is literally true, and contains everything that is worth knowing about everything. God in a book form.

This is in my opinion anti-spiritualism. Spirituality is the search for answers to the great questions in life: Why are we here? What is the purpose of life? etc. If the questions are already answered, then what's the point? If all the answers have already been discovered, then why even try to go on? There's no more point to life if it's already been drawn out and finished for you.

If the Bible is seriously supposed to be all the answers, and all you have to do is read it and all the answers are laid out, then it is nothing more than a glorified Cliff's Notes. Yuck.

[Surya Gayatri]

1. Mental strait jacket for narrow, frightened minds...n/t

[mzteris]

2. My biggest problem

is the "NO THINKING ALLOWED" mantra.

[Beer Snob-50]

3. I agree with the assessment about fundamentalist

I think that Catholism is good in that we don't believe that the bible is the answer to all questions. It is but a guide using short stories, poems, allegories, ect to help you along the way.

I have a problem with your defination of spirtuality. I don't think it is the SEARCH or answers, but instead I think the defination is that you believe that life was formed and we are guided by a spirtual force (be it God, or Allah, Mother Nature, or even Pamela Anderson).

[EstimatedProphet]

7. OK, but...

in my opinion, part of spirituality involves searching/exploring/trying to find in some way this spiritual force. In other words, I simply can't deal with the idea that we all just should read this book, and afterwards all our problems will be gone. I can't see the point in going on after something like that, if everything is already answered for you.

Maybe I should re-phrase: my sister is a fundamentalist, and she talks about how she has given her life to Jesus. Everything she does, all her questions, everything, she lets Jesus do or answer for her. So, my question becomes: why live your life afterwards? It's no longer yours. If you give your life away, then it's no longer yours, and that includes all the enjoyment, thought, everything. How are you at that point any different than a screwdriver? How does your life have any meaning?

[BushOut06]

11. If that's what makes them happy, so be it

If someone feels that serving Jesus or any other supreme being makes their life fulfilled, then so be it - why should we feel compelled to question their individual choice? It's not as if anyone forced these people to "accept Christ".

My problem with fundamentalism is NOT the religion itself - it's when they feel the need to impose their beliefs and morals on the rest of society. I don't care if they think abortion is wrong. But they shouldn't force that on everyone else. I don't care if they think the Bible is the literal word of God, if they think the universe is only 6000 years old. But if they start teaching that in public schools, then that becomes a problem.

[EstimatedProphet]

13. I'm not questioning their belief FOR THEM

I'm questioning it FOR ME.

And, I can't believe that God would create us for that purpose.

[Beer Snob-50]

14. I understand your def of spirtulity..

I guess the "finding" of this force should be part of the defination.

By giving her life to Jesus, I am assuming (or better yet hoping) that she is planning on living her life as he would. In service to others, living basically a good life, and also enjoying her life. I think that Jesus spent a portion of his life actually having a good time. His first miracle was turning water into wine. He also questioned things. Whether it was why the Jews did things a certain way, to why the heck did he have to do what his Father told him to do.

[EstimatedProphet]

15. Well, yes and no

The idea that she wants to live her life as Jesus would is there. In practice, she goes about it by praying for each decision she is confronted with-I've seen her pray to find out what ingredients to put into dinner. Seriously, she is trying to live her life by prayer only, and as far as I can see, that leaves little room for enjoyment. She questions nothing-she prays for answers, and takes the answers as set in stone.

So, what I am getting at, is that I simply can't see any point to living, if that's what living is. She is as close to ceasing to exist while still breathing as I can imagine. And I can't see this as having any kind of spiritualism about it. It seems more to me like a kind of anti-spiritualism.

But that's just me.

[Beer Snob-50]

16. Oh my!

Well, I think your sister is "looking" for the answers to the meaning of life, but she is not doing it in a way that Jesus would. Have her look at the passion of jesus in the bible. It will show him questioning his Father in Heaven.

[EstimatedProphet]

17. Exactly

And the thing is, her particular brand of Christianity encourages this. They all try to live like that. If you already have all the answers, then there's no point in questioning.

Yuck.

[yourout]

4. My biggest problem......

No Facts allowed.

[Hardrada]

5. My biggest problem

They think we're going to Hell (and often speed us on our supposed way)!

[Skinner]

6. There is so much to dislike about fundamentalism...

...that it's impossible to choose just one thing as the worst. So I'm not even going to try.

But your post reminds me of one thing that I find extremely irksome about Christian fundamentalism. They claim that (in your words) "the Bible is the whole and complete word of God." But they freely ignore the stuff that doesn't square with their worldview. So that thing about it being the whole and complete word of God is basically not true.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. I agree with you there

and I have a hard time not calling them hypocrites.

However, the thing that keeps me from becoming fundamentalist above all else, even the hypocrisy, is the idea that I am supposed to "give my life to Jesus", which I have to define seperately from accepting Jesus as my savior. Jesus, I believe, is man's savior-he led the way for Man's spiritual search. But giving my life to Jesus means I'm not living it anymore. I don't believe that was his intent. Why keep living if I'm not actually living?

[Coyote_Bandit]

18. Some of them

most notably the pentecostals and charismatics also believe that God's revelation is ongoing. Hence, He is speaking through them when them speak in "tongues". Usually what happens is that someone babbles incoherently for awhile. If they are alone they trust the "spirit" to reveal God's words to them. If they are in a church service then they trust someone else to interpret God's words into some form of comprehensible English. Not only is this highly suggestible but it is also easily manipulated. And since it is considered an ongoing revelation of God it is viewed as supplemental to Scripture. This is some truely frightening stuff. And, yea. many of the large non-denominational mega-churches have long ties to this kind of "teaching".

[waiting for hope]

26. Speaking in Tongues?

My thought - if God is so omnipotent, why in the world can't the individual who is getting the message sent through them to convey speak the language those listening will understand? Speaking in tongues was given to the disciples as a tool to help spread the word when they were in lands with a different language. The whole concept has gotten warped beyond it's original purpose.

[arwalden]

29. Someone Join Me... I'll Go In To Church And Start Babbling Incoherently...

(something I do frequently in the lounge anyway)

... and then YOU stand up and say "I UNDERSTOOD THAT!"... and then you proceed to explain that "God values his gay and lesbian children as much as any others and that they too should be permitted to join together in the eyes of God and the church in Holy Matrimony."

Would that work?

Or is it only the POPULAR and well-known church-regulars who get to babble-off some sort of telegraph from God?

[NMMNG]

22. That's what I call the "Cafeteria Plan"

They particularly like to use it when determining what to ignore for themselves, but enforce against others.

[Burning Water]

8. While I have no truck with

"fundamentalism", I think they could be combated much more effectively if Democrats actually knew what they believed. That is not it, but only a superficial analysis. I grew up in a "fundamentalist' household, and while I have left those beliefs behind, I do know that they are much more complex than that.

Want to fight 'em? Then learn something about them. And also remember, they come in many, many different flavors, so whatever you do learn only applies to some of them.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Well, I do know that my sister believes what I said

And I do know from my experience with several southern Baptists that their beliefs can be summed up that way.

[oneold1-4u]

12. Religious fundamentalists

are only "sheep" that will travel to the nearest water, but if it is a running stream, they will die of thirst unless the water is drawn for them and contained as still. The "sheep" today are only living because someone fills their trough for them!
They could care less what type of person does this!

[Coyote_Bandit]

19. My biggest problem with fundamentalism

is that the church assumes authority that does not rightfully belong to it and in doing so betrays its purpose.

[OneBlueSky]

20. fundamentalism absolves you from the responsiblity to think . . . n/t

.

[believerinchrist]

21. I absolutely agree!

When I hear someone say that every word in the Bible is true, I know they don't understand it. The Bible is a narrative that tells the stories of how people perceived God through the early years of recorded history. I see a progression of understanding God (much as the progression of the understanding our solar system) throughout its pages.

There are two interesting theories I have "developed" over the years. First, the most important words in the Bible are those of Jesus Christ--he never lorded over any other human being and he challenged the religious leaders of his day. He threw into the mix of ideas the concepts of God as a LOVING father and the importance of peope truly loving their fellow human beings. Second, underlying the narrative of the Bible is a thread of the war between good and evil--with evil being the force that brings hurt to the human race. The Bible suggests that there is a plan working out to deal with that force.

There are no cut and dried rules or answers within the pages of the Bible (contrary to what religion says) because what is most important of all is people. I believe God is great enough and loves enough to meet the need of our human race without destroying the very ones He loves. Love is a powerful force that will not fail.

[Odin2005]

23. Protestant fundies are such morons.

When you treat the Bible as the infallible word for God you are forgetting the context the bible was written in. A good example is that passage in the New Testament (Corinthians, methinks) that is used as one of the reasons fundies say homosexuality is wrong; Paul was criticizing the promiscuous sexual mores (adultery was considered A OK for greek men) that were considered fine in pagan Graeco-Roman society, not homosexuality. I'm an atheist, but if I had to pick a demomination it would be Eastern Orthodox, most of their traditions date from before the New testament was even codified.

[believerinchrist]

24. Every time I hear the words "infallible word of God"...

I shake my head--what does infallible mean anyway? That every single word is true? Anyone who believes that doesn't understand the book of Job. Chapters 3 through 31 are the conversation between Job and his "comforters." Job ended up saying he didn't know what he was talking about and God "told" the other three, they were not right. Therefore, anything spoken in those chapters were not true. I don't know how many times I've heard people quote from that section of the Bible--they don't realize the thrust of that book.

The way I look at the Bible is that within its pages is everything I need to know to love God, to love my neighbor as myself, and to press into overcoming evil in my life (and that evil is not other people).

[Coyote_Bandit]

27. The problem with thinking Scripture is infallible

is the failure to recognize that you the reader are fallible. And, as such, your interpretation and understanding of Scripure can be wrong. This explains why there are some 22,000 protestant denominations. Even with context Scripture can be misinterpreted.

[waiting for hope]

25. Here's my take on Fundies...

They are individuals who are desperately seeking love and answers for their own existence - the Big Book provides that and also gives them a sense of entitlement and superiority. I (and please forgive me to those who have come over to the other side and post here) truly believe that they are spiritually bankrupt and they lack the ability to open their eyes and hearts to the greater picture, that being the world as a whole. They are small minded and sometimes just plain mean, but it's all wrapped up in a bright shiny package so that makes their actions and words okay.

[Dogmudgeon]

28. The Bible as complete

There are 66 books in the King James Version; some versions, such as Roman Catholic translations, include 72. There is also an entire body of pseudoepigraphic or deuterocanonical works, commonly called "The Apocrypha". And even moreso, many of those books, whether canonical or deutero, were written by more than one author and passed through a series of scribes.

Even the New Testament has been rigorously analyzed by a number of bible scholars, and has been shown to be much more of a patchwork than whole cloth. In several places, entire sentences were inserted long after the original book was written.

The Bible is probably best read as a book of lore from many, perhaps hundreds, of different traditions and factions, and covers a variety of topics, from history to ethics to polemic to prophecy, etc. It's an entire library that we call a book.

However, about its purported perfection, even Christ commented (and I'll praraphrase here) that the Law was made for People, and not the other way around.

Throughout history, the bible has raised more questions than it's answered. Maybe that was the entire point.

--p!