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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 01:15 PM
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Another Take on Gospel Truth About Judas
Shades of Schonfield's The Passover Plot?

Another Take on Gospel Truth About Judas
Manuscript Could Add to Understanding of Gnostic Sect

By Stacy Meichtry
Religion News Service
Saturday, February 25, 2006; Page B09


The first translation of an ancient, self-proclaimed "Gospel of Judas" will be published in late April, bringing to light what some scholars believe are the writings of an early Christian sect suppressed for supporting Jesus's infamous betrayer.

If authentic, the manuscript could add to the understanding of Gnosticism, an unorthodox Christian theology denounced by the early church. The Roman Catholic Church is aware of the manuscript, which a Vatican historian called "religious fantasy."

According to scholars who have seen photographs of the brittle manuscript, it argues that Judas Iscariot was carrying out God's will when he handed Jesus over to his executioners. The manuscript could bring momentum to a broader academic movement that argues Judas has gotten a bum rap among historians and theologians as well as in popular culture.

The manuscript's owner said he has cut a deal with the National Geographic Society to release the English translation with a multimedia splash after Easter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/24/AR2006022401799.html
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 01:43 PM
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1. I have always felt this way. If it was supposed to be pre-ordained
and if this was the will of God, why punish Judas?
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 01:50 PM
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2. I always wondered why they didn't celebrate Judas, if you believe
all that's in the Bible, then Judas did exactly what God planned for him to do, which led directly to Jesus on the cross and the whole salvation thing - Seems like someone would celebrate Judas in the same way that Catholics have given such attention to Mary.
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believerinchrist Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 02:06 PM
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3. Actually, God didn't punish Judas...
Judas committed suicide. According to the Bible, Peter also denied Christ. The difference between the two men was one destroyed himself and the other dealt with his decisions by "repenting." I imagine the guilt Judas felt must have been overwhelming.

Just because Judas "betrayed" Christ does not mean that God stopped loving him or that what Christ accomplished through his death and resurrection doesn't apply to him. All of us have done things that have hurt ourselves or others--God understands where we are coming from and He loves us.

BNy the way, the people in the Bible were real people with real hopes and problems just like we are.
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Piscis Austrinus Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 04:43 PM
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6. Agree in most all of this
The only difference I see is that Judas' actions were in effect a rejection of who Jesus claimed to be (my other post on this thread addresses that issue in some detail - probably too much). Had he understood Jesus' true mission, power, and authority - as Peter obviously did - he might also have repented. The real difference I see between Peter and Judas is that between two men, one who gives information to the enemy under threat of torture and death (Gitmo fans take note) and someone who throws in with the enemy in order to get what he wants when his allies' offers are insufficient. It is the difference between a POW and a quisling.

I believe even Judas, had he repented as did Peter, was redeemable; however, the act of betrayal seems illustrative of a lack of faith.

Peace
PsA
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 02:50 PM
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4. I always thought Judas got a bad rap
He must have been an exceptional man to leave all his possessions and follow Christ. He did what he did out of passion, rather than selfishness.

I believe he and God have worked it out. He had to do what he did or the whole plan couldn't be put into motion.
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Piscis Austrinus Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-25-06 04:14 PM
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5. My understanding of Judas Iscariot - why he isn't celebrated
Edited on Sat Feb-25-06 04:36 PM by Piscis Austrinus
Judas was, to my understanding, one of the most radical of the original twelve disciples. It appears to have been his idea that Jesus would be an earthly king, who would shake off the Romans from Judea and Israel and set up a new Jewish kingdom.

Judas also, to my understanding, was more or less the purser for the twelve.
These two roles, if correct, yield insight into the differences that Judas had with Jesus; certainly Judas, as a radical Hebrew, would have thought it wrong to pay tribute to Rome (as opposed to "give unto Caesar what it Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's") and would not have understood - or at least have seen much earthly use for - the idea of Jesus as an eternal king.

Now, according to prophecy, Jesus was to be betrayed, and such a betrayal would have been an inside job. Note also that the actual betrayal wasn't exactly to the Romans, but to the governing council under the Romans at the time, the Sanhedrin. Judas betrayed Jesus to the Sanhedrin, from my view, in the interest of forcing Jesus' hand and making him summon divine power in order to overwhelm the government of Rome and its vassal Sanhedrin.

It is relatively well accepted now that this was never Jesus' intent, as the Kingdom was to be founded in the hearts of men and built on their positive and loving actions toward one another. Under the doctrine of original sin, man was and is sinful in nature. Under the Law, sacrifices were regularly made for the atonement of sin, but could not permanently free man from his burden; the sacrifice required was divine, through the Son of God (referred to as the Lamb of God, signifying the animal sacrificed for the atonement of sin).

In effect, Judas did actually set in motion the events that resulted in the establishment of the Christian faith, through the redemptive sacrifice of Christ. However, Judas did this not for others, but for himself, and for his own ideas of what the Kingdom of God would be. In effect, he tried to force God to conform His plans to Judas' actions. That was the great sin of Judas - in putting his own interests before that of God, he broke the first and most important of the Commandments.


I am relating this because I see a tremendous parallel between the actions of Judas and the aims of certain movements today which seek to establish, or prepare, an earthly kingdom of Christ based on the promise of His return. If you are not familiar with these, I suggest you research the Christian Reconstructionist and the Dominionist movements. Both of these are centered on the idea of establishing a theocentric system of society, if not an actual theocratic government.

These are dangerous movements, make no mistake about it. In view of the story of the betrayal, I have to view their ultimate aims as virtually equivalent to that of Judas. In particular I suggest researching the sermons of Mike Bickle, leader of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. While I do not question the sincerity of Mr. Bickle's heart (and in fact, I have met several IHOP associates in years past and am reasonably certain that they are - to their own hearts - both well-intentioned and actually more welcoming than one might expect), I do question his interpretations of Scripture, and in particular, I question the logical fallacy that what the saints will be doing in the eternal kingdom is what they should be doing now. There is a vast difference, Biblically speaking, between the pre- and post-apocalyptic worlds, and while we reside in the former, Christians are to act as they have been instructed to act until that time. In a nutshell, these Christians are doing their laundry before they've worn their clothes - clean, yes, but exceedingly foolish, and probably a waste of time - plus they still have to wash the clothes they've got on now.

This is the heart of the matter for the evangelicals, and for all who seek to prepare a kingdom of God on earth. The lesson of Judas is a very, very powerful one for those who would seek to create or enforce a kingdom in God's name. Clearly, a small but vocal group of Christians in this country and abroad support the idea of war in the Middle East, because - according to Scripture, again - the destruction of the nation of Israel is one of the key events leading to the establishment of the New Jerusalem. I do not doubt that, whether through outside lobbying or internal design of policy, some of the actions taken in the Middle East by our current government are either aimed at that end, or intended to carry the appearance of that aim for the benefit of the perceptions of these evangelicals. I doubt very much that this administration would have the support of conservative evangelicals, were the latter to comprehend that their participation in the actions of the administration might disqualify themselves from the very kingdom they seek to establish. It is comparable to trying to stack the deck before a card game. Most people who try to do this wind up being excluded from the game (often suffering serious abuse in the process), and even if they get away with it, what then is the point of bothering to play the game?

It should be noted here that, in that light, the part of the Creation myth that deals with the fall of Adam carries a kind of parallel to the story of Judas, with Satan as the unintentional catalyst.

I would therefore warn anyone in this movement of what is my belief: that to attempt to set in motion the events that might lead to biblical apocalypse is to repeat the sin of Judas. From what I've seen, only a minority of believers would suspect that Judas shared - or will share - in the kingdom of God (though, from reading here, there are definitely some who do, and I can't say they're wrong without falling into this same trap myself). This is thought to be the case for any of a number of reasons besides those stated above.

The attempt to set God's Kingdom in place is thus not merely a dangerous thing in many ways earthly; in the larger arena, such an action might well place such persons in opposition to God Himself (as they did Judas). In my gut, I believe that this is the eventual fate awaiting a number of people who have been at the forefront of this type of policy, whether by design or through the intent of deceiving supporters (which is pretty clearly warned about in Scripture). I do not myself wish this fate to befall anyone, because the implications are so horrifying that as a human being on this earth, I could not bear by my own actions or approval to condemn any person to such a fate, even those guilty of the most heinous crimes. Eternity is a long, long, long time to suffer even a little, let alone to suffer as much as is possible for every long, slow second.


I understand that many if not most folks here don't agree with this, and that's ok. This is just where I come from, having been in one of these movements in the past, and this interpretation of the story of Judas seemed to me to be relevant both to the topic and to the times in which we now live. I would ask only that you understand that I am not asking you to share in any way with my own faith. Most of you have brains that are probably more operational than my own.
:)

Peace
PsA

(PS: yes, people who post the Commandments on signs in their yards drive me right up the wall!)

on edit - spelling correction and forgot to retitle post - sorry! :O
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