Athiests: What's with the obsession with fundamentalists?

[supernova]

And fundamentalist theology?

I get the impression reading some of you that you feel you live in a sea of fundamentalists. They they are EVERYWHERE! And you constantly talk to them ALL THE TIME about extreme theology. :crazy:

If you are related to them, that might be one thing. I could see chafing at that, since, well, we do have to see speak to our relatives from time to time. :-)

I'll be clear. I have no problem with unbelief in and of itself. If that's your orientation toward the universe, I'm happy for you. I'm just frankly curious that some one who purportedly doesn't like religion or want to talk about such matters, winds up thinking about the most extreme examples of it so often? :shrug:

Again, this isn't a challenge. I'm not saying this in anger. Just sign me:

Frankly curious in NC

[salinen]

1. Fundamentalism is harmless

Just good Christian folks minding their own business.

[supernova]

3. I wish it were that simple

Religion used to be a private thing. I wish it were again.

[bloom]

41. What planet are you on???

Post #38 lists quite a few problems - as does this article...

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=1800...

"U.S. legislators backed by the Christian right vote against these issues with near-perfect consistency. That probably doesn't surprise you, but this might: Those same legislators are equally united and unswerving in their opposition to environmental protection.
<snip>

Like him, many Christian fundamentalists feel that concern for the future of our planet is irrelevant, because it has no future. They believe we are living in the End Time, when the son of God will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire. They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed -- even hastened -- as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.
<snip>

People under the spell of such potent prophecies cannot be expected to worry about the environment. Why care about the earth when the droughts, floods, and pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the Apocalypse foretold in the Bible? Why care about global climate change when you and yours will be rescued in the Rapture? And why care about converting from oil to solar when the same God who performed the miracle of the loaves and fishes can whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a Word?
<snip>

DeLay has said bluntly that he intends to smite the "socialist" worldview of "secular humanists," whom, he argues, control the U.S. political system, media, public schools, and universities. He called the 2000 presidential election an apocalyptic "battle for souls," a fight to the death against the forces of liberalism, feminism, and environmentalism that are corrupting America. The utopian dreams of such movements are doomed, argues the majority leader, because they do not stem from God.
<snip>

In the past, it was not deemed politically correct to ask probing questions about a lawmaker's intimate religious beliefs. But when those beliefs play a crucial role in shaping public policy, it becomes necessary for the people to know and understand them...."

[samwisefoxburr]

2. Because they inpose their verson of things on other people....

...Reproductive rights, gay rights, etc. They think they are always right because it is the Word of God. It is a threat that shouldn't be overlooked.

[supernova]

4. I agree with you

and I'm just as concerned as anyone on DU about the acendencey of the fundamentalist faction.

But I don't spend a lot of physic energy worrying about them or how they think. I tend to channel my energies into things I can do locally like work with local Dem party.

edit: spelling

[samwisefoxburr]

13. I actually enjoy it...

...Don't know why, I guess I love getting pissed off about the crazy things they do. I'm very calm and nice in person, though. :) I don't feel or get stressed about it or anything like that. It's just an interest I have and I have fun with it.

[supernova]

24. Ha Ha.

Is it how you get your mental exercise? :-)

I frankly couldn't take the stress on a day to day basis. :silly:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

35. I can guess why.

It's because arguing with someone who is clearly wrong, and totally so, is much more relaxing than arguing with someone you actually have to engage your brain to rebut, let alone someone who may actually prove you to be wrong about some things - or at least that's why I enjoy it.

[Jackie97]

33. I agree with that.

I have also worked with the Democratic Party. When I have time to do work and volunteer work at the same time, I was thinking of working with less fortunate people. Stuff like that normally puts things into perspective. I don't think most of us channel all our energy on the fundamentalists. Nobody's worth that.

[BOSSHOG]

5. I am not an atheist

but I live in a red state and I see it and hear it often. Baptists are told from the pulpit and from the radio that they are being persecuted because of their religion. The truth - they are being prevented from imposing their religious beliefs and views on the population and being prevented from abolishing the constitution and replacing it with the Bible. Ergo - they are persecuted. Also, when I hear the likes of Dopson saying he will "target" politicians who do not march in lock step with his religious beliefs then an enemy is made for fundamentalists. I believe the base is ignorant and has no idea of how lucky they are to be served by the Constitution. I also would like them to reduce the hypocrisy level by preaching all of Leviticus instead of just the parts that support their raw hate of a segment of the population. Bottom line, the Constitution is not a weapon to be used by religious zealots against law abiding, tax paying productive citizens they choose to hate.

BTW, I like Johnny Depp as well. I look forward to the next Pirate movie when Keith Richards will play his Father.

[supernova]

11. Do you know a lot of Baptists?

I live in a red state too, btw.

But I have to say I feel somewhat cheated in these religious debates, because I don't know any fundamentalists anymore. Everyone I know is Moderate or Liberal, theologically speaking.

I used to know the Baptists quite well. I live next door to a Baptist Church; it was my Dad's church. But I stopped visiting there when the family with whom I was friendly moved and he wasn't the minister anymore. His daughter was my age and we played together often. Sadly, and typically, I hear she went on to have a very rough adolescence.

That was when I was a kid. I don't know anyone there anymore and haven't for many years.

Edit: Re: Johnny. POTC 2 & 3 on the way! :D Last I heard, Keith hadn't actually signed to do it, but it would be SO COOL! :-) In the meantime, I'm anxiously awaiting Charlie & the Chocolate Factory.

[BOSSHOG]

18. I live in South Mississippi

and there is a baptist church every mile on the country highways around here. These people would kill for bush. They accept zero criticism or comments of their religion or of anything a republican may do or say. Their position is defensive - they are trained to respond that they are being persecuted by secularists and liberals. We are free to believe what we choose in this country (thank God) but we (they) are not free to codify their religious beliefs as they would like to. I didn't serve in the Navy 24 years swearing to support and defend the bible.

I hope Richards signs on. That would be quite a pair. CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow - the wonderful scene when he was awaiting his fate on the gallows. My wife got the POTC "Lost Disc" special edition with "8 never before seen bonus features" for Christmas. We haven't watched it yet.

[supernova]

21. I do know republicans like that

and we don't discuss politics as a general rule because of it. I'm not really sure where this persecuted mind-set comes from. How they got to be so frightened in the first place. It's a kind of willful ignorance.

I didn't serve in the Navy 24 years swearing to support and defend the bible.

Love it! :D And thanks for your service.

[BOSSHOG]

25. The mind set comes from

years of indoctrination by those needing foot soldiers and voters to push their agenda. I sometimes listen to American Family Radio and it is nothing but indoctrination and hate. At every opportunity they are told that liberals are evil (with no proof) and that christians are being persecuted (with no proof). Their fear and arrogance took years to develop and is based on their ignorance and total disregard for the United States Constitution. I'm no psychologist but one does not have to be to identify this threat and where it most likely came from.

Its been great chatting with you and thanks for bringing up this topic. I gotta get off this computer now and go forth and do evil liberal things like clean out the garage. And you are welcome. It was my honor and pleasure to serve.

[salvorhardin]

6. I don't know about others...

I can only speak for myself, but the primary thing that concerns me about fundamentalists is the amazing degree to which the right wing and other unsavory groups and individuals have co-opted their religious beliefs for political gain.

Sea of fundamentalists? Well, there are a lot of them in the U.S. However, I don't go out of my way to talk to them about theology nor do I particularly disassociate myself from fundamentalists. If I see a neighbor on the street whom I know is of that particular religious belief I still say hello, or if I see them in the diner I'll still ask them about their work, kids, etc.

It's a bit of a myth too that atheists don't discuss religion and spirituality. Anything that has so dramatically influenced humanity has to be discussed. We want to understand the religion thing as much as the next person. We just don't believe.

[Mrs. Overall]

7. I am not an atheist, but fundamentalists scare the hell out of me--

Here's why:

I was raised a fundamentalist and therefore know first hand the extent of the hate. I was taught that every other religion, especially Catholics, were going to hell. I was also taught that it was a sin to dance, play cards, drink alcohol, smoke, and be friends with people who didn't believe the way I believed. I was also constantly frightened by the "second coming" and knowing that at any second I would be snatched from the earth.

They impose their beliefs on others and meddle in education, government, health care--areas that should be religion free. I am in a fairly liberal area near Seattle, and yet we have had several public school policies changed because one or two vocal fundamentalist parents threw a fit.

A Buddhist friend of mine had a crowd of fundamentalists show up at her door--maybe twenty people--with bibles in hand and asked if they could do a Christian house blessing because they had heard she was holding Buddhist meditation meetings. She asked them to leave and shut the door.

I lean toward paganism and there is no way I would be public with my beliefs, even though I am in a fairly liberal area. Fundamentalists feel empowered now, and in my opinion, are dangerous to those of us who do not share their belief system.

On Edit: Here you go. This was just posted elswhere. Things like this come out of the fundamentalist movement:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2955383
(anti-gay hatred against Kephra)

[joefree1]

8. FunDIEs are a huge growth industry

They are one of the fastest growing religions (besides Islam and Paganism BTW). Add that to the fact that they think everyone else is going to Hell and/or an agent of Satan plus they obsess about the "End Times."

Pretty scary folk.


Seating now available in the Smoking Section:
Politics, humor, death and the Devil - http://www.eDiablo.com

on edit: my friends and I like to call them "Borg-agains." :evilgrin:

[Malva Zebrina]

9. I am interested in all things having to do with belief systems

from an anthropological viewpoint. I find it very interesting--the history of religion, the need for it amongst human beings since humans arrived on the planet, the writings of philosophers, theologians, women feminist theologians, and such as that. I simply find it a fascinating subject.

As far as the fundies go, they get in the face of everyone, and as many Christians resent it, as any non theist.

[supernova]

14. So for you it's a learning experience?

Thanks for answering my question. :-)

I also like learning about different belief systems. It's fun for me. And since I'm a theist, if I find something that resonates, I incorporate it into my belief system.

[Malva Zebrina]

19. you could call it that but I look upon more as a

pursuit of knowledge about the ways of mankind over history,beginnin g with the earliest recordings of history to the present, and not an experience per se.

[donsu]

10. your the one calling it an "Obsession"

we just don't want the religiously insane running our lives or our governments.

(or any other kind of insanity)

[supernova]

12. Well, neither do I.

That's one of the reasons why I'm at DU and why I'm poltically active.

edit:

clarification: Maybe I should have said "obssession" within the context of DU. I just get the impression talking to non-theists on DU that you think about these things all the time. Any time we enter into a discussion, I'm at great pains to point out that what is presented to me isn't my experience. That's where it's coming from.

[donsu]

26. the religiously insane invade everything and most DUers know this so

we can easily see the religiously insane in things political, social, financial and psychological and speak about it.

we are not obsessed but we are determined to constrain the religiously insane from killing off america

[Selwynn]

15. Largely ex-fundamentalists?

:shrug:


EDIT - not to be taken seriously.

[supernova]

17. .

:+

[noamnety]

16. We don't need to know them personally to be affected

They enact laws and policies that affect every one of our lives.

You may as well ask an oppressed person why they are so obsessed about civil rights.

Actually, I see you are asking that.


Here's why we are affected:

Outlawed medical procedures
FDA refusal to approve certain drugs
The right to marry who we want
The right to reproductive freedom
Termination of insurance coverage for gay people
Termination of insurance coverage for birth control
Religious education forced on public school children
Outrage when a public meeting doesn't begin with a religious ceremony
Outrage when a public school activity doesn't begin with a religious ceremony
Outrage when an atheist refuses to publically acknowledge God (under God)
Justifying killing people because they believe in "the wrong God"
Justifying using tax dollars to do it
Intimidating children who only want to dance with the person they love at a school dance
Intimidating children who want to go to their school play
Outlawing atheists running for public office
Claiming that atheists are not patriots (but feeling free to send us to fight their wars)
Claiming that atheists are "not citizens" (but feeling free to collect taxes from us)
Deliberately lying to children in sex ed classes, putting them at an increased risk of disease and death
Using tax dollars to fund an AIDS commission composed of people who oppose condoms
Diverting tax dollars to organizations that use a portion of those funds to build their churches and spread their faith

In summary, I am offended not by all fundamentalists, but by those fundamentalists who use the bible to justify denying civil rights and endangering people's lives.

[BOSSHOG]

20. Thank you my fellow American

for putting the issue as clearly and succinctly as possible. I like to use short soundbites when chatting with them - "THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A WEAPON." And "why not codify the rest of Leviticus?" As long as I am breathing they will be opposed. My oath of enlistment said I would support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. I'm now retired but still under oath.

[supernova]

22. Well, that's kind of my point

And I love your list!

I guess what I'm saying, and not very well, is that we're spinning our wheels debating theology and not on the effect of that theology.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. Excellent point, Supernova

It seems strange to be debating about theology (or atheology :-) )when it really makes no difference to the larger society if a bunch of people believe that God will send them to hell for square dancing, having a glass or wine with dinner, or playing gin rummy. That's their problem, not yours or mine.

It's usually pointless to debate theology with a fundamentalist, because if you try to argue in Biblical terms, bringing up verses that contradict their beliefs, they'll tell you, "Even the devil can quote Scripture."

Both atheists and liberal Christians can share a wariness of how this kind of religion is being used in the public sphere. The fundamentalists are like bratty children who get their way by wearing everyone else down, as in the case of the schools that have banned the celebration of Halloween or removed certain books from required reading lists.

In this respect, atheists and liberal religious people are on the same side, We don't want one segment of the population to be able to force any beliefs that are not part of universal human morality on the rest of the population.

I would like to summarize by saying that liberal religious people at DU are happy to bash the fundamentalists' efforts to impose their rules on the larger society, but it is very tiresome to run up against the same half-dozen posters whose day is seemingly incomplete until they have made venomous, gratuitously insulting, often ill-informed accusations against all religious people, even those who share their views on other topics.

They may excuse themselves by saying that they're just trying to make us see the error of our ways, but they are attacking not our logic, but our innermost experiences. If one has had a profound spiritual experience, malicious sniping by people who have not had such an experience is nothing more than malicious sniping.

Imagine if you were in love with someone who met your deepest emotional needs, but you were constantly faced with people who kept saying that there was no such thing as love, that you shouldn't love your s.o. because s/he has acne or because his/her ancestors were horse thieves, that people who need love are weak, or that they themselves once dated someone who looked like your s.o., who turned out to be a disaster.

Wouldn't you lose patience with such people?

[papau]

30. very nice post :-)

:-)

[RevCheesehead]

36. Thank you for this response.

I especially agree with the last 4 paragraphs.

Christianity is not only my faith, it is also my vocation.

I will no longer sit idly by and ignore bashing of all Christians. I am a member of DU, just like anyone else, and I sure wish people would respect that I am here, fighting the same issues in society like anyone else here.

[Selwynn]

23. hear hear!

Though.... I think I may be offended by just all fundamentalists :D

[OffWithTheirHeads]

27. Not only that but

they can justify torture, murder, killing their children,or any other act by claiming they are fighting "Satan." These people are not only mentally unstable, they are very dangerous. The American Taliban.

I say, come the revolution, we feed em to the lions.

[supernova]

29. Agree, they are dangerous.

I say, come the revolution, we feed em to the lions.

And this makes you morally superior to them, exactly....how? :shrug:

The time for liberalism will come again. The pendulum always swings back and forth. But you have to be careful not to turn into the thing you seek to conquer.

[Az]

31. They are the cause of many problems

I am writing this while under the influence of vicadin (due to root canal) so if I drift.... forgive me.

Our society is quite complex. There is no one cause for the situation as it stands. But there are some issues that create strong tendencies.

Our post modern society embraces tolerance. This was expected to encourage communication between the various cultures, beliefs, and values. However with no effort to bring the groups together to interact they instead drifted into isolation and exclusion rather than the hoped for connections.

Some groups were more inclined to communicate with each other. These groups enabled some progress in society. But those that did not take part in this open discussion of progress retreated further from society. They continued to grow and develop their own thinking in the shadows for a time. But once the politics of appealing to the disenfranchised was embraced by the right they found a place to voice their disattisfaction with the direction society was taking.

During this time atheists have desired to be part of the open process. But most have found that they have never been welcomed as part of public society. Add to this the fact that we do not have organised social structures of our own. This leaves the typical atheist feeling disconnected from much of society.

Even though for many strong liberal Christians the differences between them and the fundamentalists are quite clear. There is still a connectivity for much of Christian society. Thus the issues have the fundamentalists still have a pull for other Christians while the issues of atheists will seem threatening to many.

When a fundamentalist speaks up in the news or tries to legislate some draconian law based on their beliefs there is no strong vocal reaction from the more open minded Christians. When an atheist is slandered or demeaned in public no believer jumps to their defense. It is often seen that if a believer of any faith is taken to task for their particular beliefs many will rise in their defense. Thus the atheist tends to see their position as one only they defend.

Another factor in the discord between atheists and fundamentalists has to do with who we usually find ourself in debates with. Open minded Christians tend not to seek to press their beliefs on others. They also tend to embrace science and the implications it brings.

In my years of moderating an atheist debate channel on IRC it was always the fundamentalists that came to us and tried to debate us. There were often liberal believers that arrived but they discussed things reasonably and were able to come to agreement with us on many issues. But they were terribly underrepresented compared to the fundamentalists.

And when the fundamentalists debated their tactics were attrocious. Continuous strawmen, appeals to authority, ad hominem attacks, and every other logical fallacy in the book. Most atheists hone their teeth on attacks from fundamentalists. They are not as familiar with the positions and tactics of other types of Christians.

Due to the constant use of ad hominem attacks in such debates many learn to return the favor. The battle becomes not so much about reason and more about who can bash the hardest.

There are billboards in our society proclaiming God is going to punish those that don't believe. Daily TV shows proclaiming the wickedness of nonbelievers. Polls showing we can never be elected if we are honest about what we believe. God pressed on our children in school. It is understandable if we become a tad upset and lash out at those that most represent our oppressor. And that is the form of the fundamentalist.

Fundamentalists are angry. They express their anger at those that differ with them. There are few that differ as much as we atheists. If you would have us know the difference between them and other Christians it would perhaps be best to make yourselves vocal as well. Do not let them speak alone for Jesus.

Sorry if I rambled. But these are just some of the factors at play here. There is a way for atheists and theists to coexist and do so happily. But its not just going to happen. We have to work at it. We have to create the world we wish to live in.

[Jackie97]

32. I'm an agnostic in NC.

I'll answer.

My "obsession" with fundamentalists are two different things.

1) They won't leave us alone. I realize that most people are NOT strict fundamentalists, but I feel they're ruining America by pushing for a gay marriage amendment, to criminalize abortion, and other things where religion is forced on us. I have no real problem with the Amish because they leave us alone. They're fundamentalists.

2) I used to be a fundamentalist. As a former fundamentalist, I feel that I was a victim in the church. They encouraged me to blindly follow others and not to think for myself. They tried to encourage me to keep a closed mind about thing. They encouraged me to not date non-fundamentalists (which at first sounds reasonable because of compatability). However, they also encouraged me not to be good friends with non-Christians because they might "drag me down". As it is, I feel like I lost one of the best friends I ever had because I didn't accept his being gay at first. I still accepted him as a friend, but not him. I wish all the time that I could tell him how very sorry I am. Another thing the church did when I was a kid was once I had to sit through a story with drawings and audio tape. It was about a pregnacy that ended in abortion. I can't remember if the pictures got graphic, but I remember hearing the "mother" talk to her "unborn" in the end about why she aborted. We got told to give the child up for adoption if we didn't want to be parents WE WERE THIRD GRADERS! The same church tried to teach us to hate hard rock singers by ripping up a picture of some singer once on the church bus. My next church was much better growing up, but the rules were still strict (like what I described above). Bottom line, the fundamentalists have done some crappy things in my opinion.

As somebody who considers myself a recovering fundamentalist (a survivor so to speak), I still sometimes have problems with my own thinking patterns. I still have problems with wanting to think the way a fundamentalist does (closed minded, simpled minded, non-critical thinking, etc). I've gotten a hell of a lot better than I was, but it's something I fight every single day. I'll be "recovering" for the rest of my life from this. Truth be told *I don't want this to happen to anymore people*. I won't be allowing my future children to attend fundamentalist churches for this reason. If they want to attend other churches, that's fine. They won't be allowed to attend fundamentalist churches though. I have to protect my future children, and I consider this to be protecting them. I don't advocate it being illegal. I have even found myself defending the rights of fundamentalists on here because I felt that some people took things too far. However, this is just how I feel about fundamentalism. I think it's a dangerous ideology.

So, I do have some personal issues with fundamentalism. Right now, my biggest issue really is about their trying to force religious related laws on us. If they would stop doing that, I really would back off of them for the most part. I might debate them about their ideology every once in a while (especially when they try to convert me), but that's it.

And yes, I do have fundamentalist relatives. The biggest one in my life is my sister, who I often try to avoid arguments with.

[Donailin]

34. Fear

of shades of gray. Black or white and fundamentalism go hand in hand. For all too many people, the idea of NOT having an answer to life's most moral questions, the thought of areas of gray frightens them. The reason is because they fear the gray will lead to doubt, to guilt, and then on to hopelessness.

The thing is, the stronger one becomes in a any faith when approached in real humility, certainty is no longer important. In fact, when one feels certain about something, ie; anothers guilt or innocence or Christianity vs. Islam, humility becomes arrogance. Arrogance leads to ego, and ego is incompatible with humility or faith.

[trotsky]

37. Take a good honest look at Christianity in America.

Even if fundamentalists per se aren't a majority, they are a very LOUD and POWERFUL minority. They are shaping the image of Christianity today, whether you like it or not. And unfortunately, you have a lot of relatively moderate Christians who buy into the rhetoric as well.

I've seen here on DU people who are otherwise quite liberal argue that if you don't accept Jesus, you'll go to hell. So it's not like the fundamentalist mindset is totally absent here, either.

[enki23]

38. cute. but ok, where to begin?

1. the majority of fundamentalist christians are directly or indirectly involved with a movement to turn the nation's public schools into centers for religious indoctrination favoring their own bizarre, anti intellectual, totalitarian, restrictive, and agressive theology.

2. they are currently fighting hard to criminalize (recriminalize, and in some places maintain the criminality of) consensual sex acts between adults which do not meet their strict religious approval.

3. not only are they fighting to exclude one segment of society from the legal and social benefits of marriage, but are also fighting to ensure that none of the benefits generally associated with marriage can be extended to same sex partners in any way.

4. they are fighting, in at least on instance, to ban all literature containing any gay characters from public schools and libraries.

5. they lead the fight to criminalize a woman's right to safe, legal abortion.

6. they are distributing propaganda discouraging the use of birth control for young people. much of this propaganda is backed by blatantly false statements and statistics. this is done in an effort to restrict sexual freedoms to those which they consider consistent with their own religious doctrine. no other rationalization they put forth has stood up to the slightest scrutiny.

7. many of them openly seek to widen the conflict between this country and majority muslim states.

8. the bush administration has granted these people an unprecedented degree of power over the lives of people who do not share their religious beliefs. they have proven their willingness, and eagerness to enforce those religious beliefs on those who do not share them. they continue to do this, and there is no reason to imagine they might stop now that they have the power to do exactly that.

9. they overwhelmingly vote republican. this translates to implicit approval of the following: policies which openly and obviously promote an increasingly uneven distribution of wealth, willingness to use military action in cases where it is clearly *not* the last resort, attempts to remove what remains of our social safety net, reducing environmental protections, an increasingly aggressive and imperialist foreign policy, and many if not all the policies and actions listed previously. this is by *no* means any attempt to provide a comprehensive list.

10. the president of the most powerful nation in the world is a religious fundamentalist. no avowed atheist has ever been president. none has even come close.


there are plenty of reasons to be worried about these motherfuckers. we atheists have to watch our backs, becaue we are openly *hated* by this extremely powerful cabal. they make no secret of that. so now, we come to the part where i have to say i assume you wrote this as some sort of "see, it cuts both ways" pablum. if so, you aren't fooling anyone with more than two ganglia to rub together. if not, well then the rest of this response stands as written.

[Az]

39. I think the question is aimed more at

why so many of our arguments are tailored for fundamentalist notions of literal interpretation and other such factors.

Many nonliteral Christians get hit by a wave of arguments from us concering erronious facts in the bible and it has no real impact on them. But may atheists seem to continue throwing them at them. Its a legitimate question from their perspective.

[enki23]

40. maybe. and so far as that goes...

using the bible against them doesn't seem to have any use other than for entertainment value. ("footloose" and "inherit the wind" and other hollywood fairytales excepted. but then, that isn't really an exception.)

anyway, i agree. that their behaviors may not be completely consistent with various compiled documents representing centuries of mythology, oral tradition, hebrew genealogy, and religious propaganda, is completely missing the point. basing ones beliefs, and political policies on the vagaries of something like "the bible" is ridiculous on its face, whether one is consistent about it or not.

[GOPBasher]

42. Well, I'm not an atheist, but I think I can see

what their problem is. I'm scared of fundamentalists, myself, and I'm a pretty religious person. It's like they're not going to stop until this country is a theocracy. That's just scary. And there are so many of them. About 40% - 45% of the people in the country consider themselves "born again Christians," and while many of them are not fundamentalists (many are even liberal), a majority of them probably are.

I can see why they're scared. I am, too.