I am a Christian

[Sapphire Blue]

Now that I’ve posted this subject, I wonder what kind of responses (if any) I’ll receive.

To some people the word ‘Christian’ conjures up images of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and the like. For a period of time, I nearly renounced Christianity because of the hold those kinds of ‘Christians’ had on this country… and the damage those kinds of ‘Christians’ inflicted upon the country, the world.

Then I went back to the Bible… the New Testament… the gospels… Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I read the words & actions attributed to Jesus.

Right now, I expect some who are reading this will be thinking, possibly ready to post, “Jesus? He wasn’t even real. He wasn’t the ‘Son of God’. The Bible is a fairy tale. There is no God. Blah, blah, blah."

Was Jesus real? Is there a God? Was Jesus the Son of God? Don’t expect an answer, an explanation, from me. I can’t even explain something as real as how a plane stays up in the air… yet they do… the evidence is right up there in the sky.

What I find in reading the gospels are stories about a man named Jesus (who referred to himself as ‘the son of man’, not ‘the Son of God’), who (it is written) spent his time on this earth preaching & teaching about such things as love, kindness, compassion, and forgiveness; he preached about caring for ‘the least of these’. He didn’t advocate gaining material wealth or reaping corporate profits. He didn’t advocate bigotry, hatred, or cruelty. He didn’t do what the Robertsons, Dobsons, Falwells do; he did what the Martin Luther Kings, the Dorothy Days, & the Jimmy Carters do.

I don’t walk the walk of the likes of the Robertsons, the Dobsons, the Falwells; my conscience keeps my feet from going down that path.

I try to walk the walk of the Martin Luther Kings, the Dorothy Days, the Jimmy Carters; the walk of Jesus; this is the path that I follow; this is where my conscience leads me.

I am a Christian.

[Paula Sims]

1. YOU are a Christian. . .

. . .Robertson, Falwell and Dobson are opportunists.

[Strong Atheist]

40. The "no real Scotsman fallacy", again. nt.

[Evoman]

52. Um

but they are still chistians, right? So...christian opportunists?

Anyhow, um....congratulations on your christianity, Sapphire Blue.

[donco6]

2. That's nice.

I'm not.

[Zynx]

4. Did you even bother to read the post?

[donco6]

12. Yes.

It was nice, I guess. "I only believe in Jesus' statements on love and compassion and forgiveness" blah blah.

I'm not a Christian. And I don't believe you need to be one to be loving, compassionate and forgiving. I just find posts like this to be disingenuous - in the faux naiive sense.

What does it even matter what Jesus said? What do YOU believe? What motivates YOU to act or not act? That's what's really, ultimately important.

[Inland]

Wow, leaves me cold.

He told you what he believed and you made a point of a snotty response. So why end up with a question? To illustrate the meaning of "disingenuous"? Because when he says what he believes, it's "nice, I guess," and when you say what you don't believe, it's of huge interest?

[donco6]

27. Because someone asked.

Look, if someone is going to post a message about their personal beliefs, I don't see why everyone should have to line up and pay homage to their lovely sentiment. I dissented from that, and I still do.

It just all ends up with a big "so what" to me. So you want to distance yourself from people who call themselves Christians but who don't seem to follow Christ's statements on compassion, etc. Good for you. But so what?

[Inland]

30. It's fun being dismissive, I'm sure.

I don't think there's a post on DU that can't be responded to with a dismissive "good for you" or "that's nice". It's rare, and you chose that one.

The only real problem is that you give a "so what", yet pretend that it's different when it's your beliefs, and that you are still asking questions.

I just wanted to point it out.

[donco6]

31. You're right; I'm evil. I can get better.

I promise never, ever to be dismissive of a post I find vacuous ever again. I vow to bow and scrape to the weightless platitudes posited herewith. Derivative philosophies will find succor at my bosom (even though I'm a man and can't change that).

Is that better?

[Inland]

32. I don't know. That may be too sophisticated for me.

Can you translate it into vacuous? Because we all know that hostility and sarcasm are the same as wit and intelligence, while statements of christian faith not directed at slamming anybody are vacuous and weightless. We aren't ready for the Algonquin, like you, just as your statements about your beliefs are important and OP's aren't.

On second thought, let's drop you and I'll re-read and comment to the OP.

[donco6]

34. Cool. eom

[keith the dem]

36. I don't blame anyone who is GLBT to be cynical about Christianity

( I assume by is avatar that Donco6 is GLBT.) I believe that the treatment of gays by many of the churches is downright evil. Not only does it turn them away from the church but it turns away many straight people of conscience. People who the church needs and people who could use the support of a church family. People have different ways of expressing their beliefs and christianity. The church can be a way to join together to perform great works. It is evil when that group of people is led to discriminate against others.
I belong to a church that is "open and affirming" of GLBT. I can honestly say that many of the active Gays and lesbians are far better Christians than I and that anybody that says you can not be gay and Christian, is not a Christian.

[Inland]

38. I don't think "cynical about christianity" has anything to do with it.

I don't have any problem with cynical about christianity, given the realities. But it would be a compliment to call a snarky, dismissive set of posts to be "cynical about" anything. As you say, some have ways of expressing themselves and some do the whole good works thing better than others, and therefore I thought the OP, having so concentrated, deserved better. As I said, I was left cold.

[Inland]

21. dupe

[TallahasseeGrannie]

71. You know

it's okay to just not be and kind of leave it at that. Different strokes and all.

[cali]

3. There are plenty of Christians

at DU. I doubt you'll receive many negative responses to your post, though you seem to be anticipating them. Like any religion, it's what you take from it and how you practice it.

[Stockholm]

5. Good for you!

Maybe this can help you with the plane bit...

http://www.raes.org.uk/public2003/Pages/EDUCATION/education_planes.htm

[Greenbeard]

6. I think there are many of us that feel this way

thanks for the post. It is definately a message worth repeating.

[Keseys Ghost]

7. There are many good Christians in the Peace Movement

Just not many in the White House

[hexola]

8. So many of my ex-hippie friends have become Christians...

I've had to re-evaluate my views of Chritianity considerably...

Interestingly - I think hippies make good christians...they already have most of it down.

I dont see myself becoming Christian...but whole definition of "being Christian" is going to change...so who knows.

I cant accept all the "miracles" as some sort of "proof of power" - Words and deeds mean much more.

Great post!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

18. I once read an interview with Don Van Vliet/Captain Beefheart

in which he ridiculed rockers who used to drop acid and later turned to Jesus. He seemed to think there was some connection. ;)

[Vexatious Ape]

9. I wish there where more Christians like you.

To bad you can't get the others on board--get them all to read the sermon on the Mount. I wouldn't be so hostile about religion if everyone who claimed to be a Christian actually acted like Jesus. I just don't believe in any of it--no god's no masters, blah, blah, blah. It must be frustrating for you.

[ronnykmarshall]

10. Good for you !

You are what Christians REALLY are.

I don't belong to a religion, but I believe in God and think Jesus was a pretty cool guy.

I can't really call myself a "Christian" because I don't believe that there is just ONE religion.

I respect all people's faith or their right to not have one.

What I can't stand is the "believers" vs. "non-believers" battles.

Both sides are childish. I believe in god and don't be gettin' all up in my grill to try and tell me that I'm wrong. I don't go around throwing holy water on your ass so talk to hand!

[unschooler]

11. I think you're walking a beautiful path, a Christian in the best sense

of the word.

As to how airplanes stay up in the air, it is not all that difficult to understand. See here....

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0856483.html

The Basic Forces of Thrust, Drag, and Lift
There are three basic forces to be considered in aerodynamics: thrust, which moves an airplane forward; drag, which holds it back; and lift, which keeps it airborne. Lift is generally explained by three theories: Bernoulli's principle, the Coanda effect, and Newton's third law of motion. Bernoulli's principle states that the pressure of a moving gas decreases as its velocity increases. When air flows over a wing having a curved upper surface and a flat lower surface, the flow is faster across the curved surface than across the plane one; thus a greater pressure is exerted in the upward direction. This principle, however, does not fully explain flight; for example, it does not explain how an airplane can fly upside down. Scientists have begun suggesting that the Coanda effect is at least partially responsible for how planes fly. Regardless of the shape of a plane's wing, the Coanda effect, in which moving air is attracted to and flows along the surface of the wing, and the tilt of the wing, called the angle of attack, cause the air to flow downward as it leaves the wing. The greater the angle of attack, the greater the downward flow. In obedience to Newton's third law of motion, which requires an equal and opposite reaction, the airplane is deflected upward. At the same time, a force that retards the forward motion of the aircraft is developed by diverting air in this way and is known as drag due to lift. Another kind of drag is caused by the slowing of air very near to the aircraft's surface; this can be reduced by making the surface area of the craft as small as possible. At low speeds (below Mach .7) the ratio between lift and drag decreases with gains in speed; accordingly, aerodynamic development for many years stressed increases in thrust over real reductions in drag.

[insane_cratic_gal]

13. I'm a Buddhist

I don't believe I have the right or the ego to tell anyone what they should believe nor persecute anyone for their beliefs.

I think Christians and Buddhist have a lot in common. They both try to ease the suffering of people.


I think also you'll find many people here in DU will not persecute your beliefs. While, you may see persecution of a sect of vocals (that happen to have hijacked the christian religion) that have taken something that is pure and twisted it into a power they wield over others.

You have done all you can do, that is to speak out about it and to keep speaking out to others about it. Remind everyone that christian does not mean "republican" any more then Catholic means Democrat, we are all individuals.

[bunkerbuster1]

14. I am an ethical Christian

While I do not share your belief in Jesus' divinity, I do believe His example of love and selflessness is one we should try to emulate in our daily lives.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

15. Plenty of "Christians" would not consider you one

Back when I was a Catholic I was surprised by how many "Christians" considered me a pagan. They wouldn't think much of your Christianity either, because it doesn't jibe with their beliefs.

If such people didn't hold Robertson, Dobson and Falwell in such high regard, these men wouldn't wield so much power. But they do, because they represent the beliefs of millions of followers.

I consider them fundies. Cultists. Theocrats who threaten my freedom and the future of my country. But not Christians.

[El Supremo]

16. Thanks for the post.

I do wish there were more believers here. But I guess we can't choose our neighbors like God chooses his children. At least we all seem to be led on the correct path.

[riderinthestorm]

61. I don't understand your post

Can you clarify what you mean?

Why do you wish for "more believers here?" On DU? In the US? On Earth? Why does it matter, especially since you state "at least we all seem to be led on the correct path?"

Do you mean political path? A peace path? A christian path? A Democratically leaning path? If you think we are all on the "correct path", why do you want more "believers?"

And why do you want to only have neighbors who are "believers?"

Thanks!

[China_cat]

17. The real problem is that

your type of christian refuses to stand up and be as vocal in denouncing the Falwell christians (et al) as they are in denouncing those who don't kowtow to them.

It's going to take more than posting here.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. They do, but nobody pays attention

It's like when the right wingers say "No Muslim leaders have condemned terrorism."

Actually, many Muslim leaders have condemned terrorism, but it hasn't been reported widely.

Same with liberal Christians and Falwell, not to mention the fact that fundies consider liberal Christians to be heretics and apostates and pay them no heed. They expend a lot of energy convincing their flocks that we're deluded by the devil and not to be trusted. I've seen them do so on public access TV.

[riderinthestorm]

66. Hmm, I don't know about that

There are no official Muslim leaders in their religion. As I understand it, everyone is free to find their own way - that is one of Islam's major tenets - that there are no intercessors between a devotee and Allah. So if the corner Imam condemns terrorism, it isn't exactly of global notoriety.

Whereas in Christianity, there are many leaders: from the Poop at the Vatican to Billy Graham. They are given official titles and hold office to proclaim their pronunciations (Gays are BAD!) And the sheep are led.....

The Poop may consider Billy Graham's flock to be heretics and apostates, but the evangelical cults have assigned him the power so it means something anyway when he makes his own pronouncements. And vice versa.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. Well, the Episcopalians came out against the Iraq War before it began

(which was on page B22) and have de facto loosened up on all sorts of issues connected with sexuality (which was on front pages and got the fundies mad at them).

There's more to Christianity than fundamentalists and conservative Roman Catholics.

[GeorgeGist]

19. Spiritual guidance comes from the soul...

not religion.

[skooooo]

20. i'm a pagan

and hope everyone is happy with what they are. That's about where it should end, imo.

[fasttense]

22. According to historians, the term "Son of Man" meant human

in Mediterranean Jewish society during the first century. The term was commonly used to refer to mankind or of human origin. So Jesus was saying he was human.

Just a factoid I like to throw around.

[trotsky]

23. Lots of people have said many things about love, kindness, and compassion.

I see nothing special about what this Jesus fella said that hadn't been said before, and without all the extra baggage that's so easily used by all the Falwells of the world. Seems to me that if we just acknowledged the content of the bible as being solely human, and not divine, we'd go a long way toward acknowledging that the secret to living together can be found right inside us, not found in anybody's holy book or some supernatural critter.

[AlinPA]

24. I was raised as a Christian. Now, all I see representing "Christians"

are Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Joyce Meyer and her ilk and a lot of bigots, haters, anti-science morons - even the so-called "President" and an attorney general (Ashcroft). I'm having a hard time fitting in with that crowd and accepting them as the Christian leaders that they are.

[demosincebirth]

25. I agree with you.

One person to add to your list...Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

[trotsky]

26. Not sure you want to claim her.

http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/index1.htm

[PublicWrath]

42. I agree, --a creepy, callous, mealy-mouthed little opportunist. n/t

[demosincebirth]

43. I good example for all to follow.

Expand your vision.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9709/mother.teresa/

[trotsky]

44. I suggest you do some expanding, too.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/teresa/general.htm

In Roman Catholicism, baptism is essential for salvation. It is known that "Mother" Teresa's assistants secretly "baptized" patients by placing a damp cloth on fevered brows, under their breath saying the magic formula that allegedly erases original sin and gives entrance into the kingdom of God. Of course, the uncertain route leads through purgatory and additional suffering in its flames before the gates of heaven can be opened. But then, according to "Mother" Teresa, suffering is good. "Mother" Teresa (who herself, it should be noted, had checked into some of the finest and costliest clinics and hospitals in the West during her bouts with heart trouble and old age) once gave this game away in a filmed interview. She described a person who was in the last agonies of cancer and suffering unbearable pain. With a smile, "Mother" Teresa told the camera what she told this terminal patient: "You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you" (Hitchens, p. 41).

Contradictions abounded, not the least being her association with a number of unsavory persons with whom she had been photographed and from whom she had received large sums of money and to whom she had given her blessing and endorsement. There she was in 1981, in Port-au-Prince, Haiti in a photo with Michele Duvalier, wife of the infamous dictator Jean-Claude ("Baby Doc") Duvalier. The occasion was "Mother" Teresa's reception of the Haitian Legion d'honneur award. In return, she praised the wonderful treatment of the poor in Haiti, when actually they were enduring a living hell. The Duvaliers had to flee Haiti not long thereafter to save their wealth and their lives.

[demosincebirth]

45. You must have some obsession with her. LOL

[trotsky]

46. Just an obsession with the truth.

Nothing worse than to see a terrible person portrayed as someone noble and good.

[PublicWrath]

47. and giving her a halo for the "prestige" of the Church

Btw, John Paul 2 took funds donated specifically for the work of mother T (residing in a special account for her humanitarian efforts) to renovate a building where visiting prelates stay when they are in Rome.
Fixed it up really posh. Put in a world class swimming pool, too.

[trotsky]

48. WSWJS?

What Stroke Would Jesus Swim?

[demosincebirth]

49. Good luck and God bless you, Mr trotsky

[trotsky]

50. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bestow upon you his marinara.

rAmen.

[demosincebirth]

54. I don't like marinara sauce. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

55. He loves you anyway.

[patrice]

68. Oh thank goodness!! I thought it was Cthulu.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. Very good.

Now just convince half the "Christians" in this country to join you, and we'll be all set.

;)

[patrice]

29. Whether Jesus existed or not, or whether he did what they say or not

doesn't really matter. I believe the Truth. It's called Faith.

The emergent Truths that the stories point to do not depend upon certain specific concrete facts. That is not to say that facts are not relevant, just not relevant in the ways that we assume.

When I think about ministers and priests, I think in terms of what it means to "be called". Imagine being young and approaching decisions about what you are going to do with your life. What influence on that decision do you think things like: being deferred to by almost everyone, social solicitation, nearly universal psychological influence, the security of the corporate church, no hard sweaty labor, stable job market, dressing nice, being the target of many kinds of generosity and myriad other little assets associated with ministry . . . what effect do these thinks have upon that decision to be ordained?

Aside from the fact that I don't trust anyone who WANTS to be my "holy man" nor my "leader", most of them are business men.

[Inland]

33. The Dorothy Days, Carters and Kings

Where would we be without people finding the right inspirations?

[OneBlueSky]

35. Woody Guthrie on religion . . .

while being admitted to the hospital, a clerk was asking Woody a bunch of questions, one of which was "Religion?" . . . to which Woody replied "All" . . .

"Oh, Mr. Guthrie," the clerk responded, obviously taken aback. "I can't put 'All' on the form."

"Then just put 'None,' says Woody.

guess that's kinda my approach to religion, too . . .

[Sinti]

37. Old fashioned Christian

Do you folks have a strategy for getting the Robertsons, Dobsons, and Falwells in line and off the front page? They're loud and attract a lot more attention than you folks. They're going to turn your religion into something more comparable to the Romans if you don't give them a smack down. They dream of public inquisitions and executions.

[Goblinmonger]

39. I am not a Christian

I believe that I live a life full of love, kindness, and compassion.

I do so by studying the philosophies of MANY different people, religions, and cultures.

I am not a Christian.

[PublicWrath]

41. You seem like a sweet person. The trouble is, pretty soon there may

be only one form of "Christianity" allowed, -the Pat Robertson type, or the Dominionist variety. Just as many have urged moderate, mainstream Moslems to speak out against Islamic extremism, I am hopeful that mainstream Christians will attempt to curb the Robertson gang in their efforts to present themselves as the voice of Christianity. Unfortunately, mainstream Christians are not armed with the golden megaphone that Robertson's millions have purchased.

In the context of your faith as described above, I hope you will continue to speak out against the Falwells, the Robertsons, the Dobsons. You'll have to make a hell of a noise. They are gaining ground every day, and when they reshape America by law, it won't just be the non-Christians like me they'll come after. They'll come for you, too.

[toddaa]

51. So?

Christians make up something like 85% of the population. Why should anyone be shocked that you are a Christian.

What I find strange is how Christians can be in near total control of the culture and yet feel inferior. Not saying you feel this way, but it does seem to be that the predominent mindset of a Christian is feeling alien in their own land. Why is that?

[donco6]

53. Good question.

I wouldn't mind knowing the answer to that one, myself.

[trotsky]

56. Jesus said they would be persecuted.

Some Christians feel that if they aren't being persecuted, they must be doing something wrong. So they invent persecution if necessary. For instance, the horrible persecution that occurs when atheists are allowed to speak their minds on a public Internet message board. How do they endure such treatment?

[Proud_Democratt]

57. "Run of the mill" Christians don't know what real persecution is.

Ask a Jew or Amish or Mormon or Jehovah's Witness about persecution.

[Proud_Democratt]

58. Must be another miracle!!!

[Proud_Democratt]

59. I'm sorry to hear that.....

[Inland]

62. Well, not every post can be a shocker, I bet.

Maybe some entertainment value is found in an OP that doesn't embrace the stereotypes you discuss.

[toddaa]

63. Christianity is the overwhelmingly dominate religion in America

Why announce to the world that you are a member of the most overwhelming religious group in America unless you believe that you somehow feel that you are somehow a pariah on DU?

[Inland]

64. Well, from reading the OP

it's pretty clear that there are christians and there are christians. She didn't just announce membership. She talked about a specific christian tradition. It was a long post.

And I certainly don't know if she feels like a pariah on DU. Maybe she does. Certainly your post in response ignored everything she said in order to make her answer for the sins of some OTHER christians, ones that she was making pains to differentiate herself from. Not being able to find any fault with her post, you simply insinutated other christians and took a stinky dump on them. I wonder if you think that her being a pariah on DU is a goal to be accomplished. Just asking.

[toddaa]

67. I didn't find any fault in the OP

I just didn't understand it's purpose. Are you responding to someone else's post? I think your reading something into my post that isn't there.

Where did I "(insinuate) other christians and took a stinky dump on them."

[Inland]

69. It didn't have YOUR purpose, maybe.

But they can't all be shockers. Yet, you picked that one for a "So?" and a challenge as to its "purpose" and changed the subject to some other christians with some demands for some answers. Hm. Are you in favor of the origianal poster feeling like a pariah, or at least, that her opinions need some sort of extraordinary justification before they should be heard? Wondering.

[toddaa]

73. Don't want the OPer to feel like a pariah

You on the other hand...

[Proud_Democratt]

74. Christians have been "taking dumps" on other faiths..

in this country for 400 years. Do you need a history lesson to realize that? Ask a Native American....you know the ones...we called them "savages". We killed them almost to extermination.
IT WAS GENOCIDE.
Maybe you need to read....instead of "flaming" or "trolling" Atheists.

[Inland]

75. But I thought that was wrong.

You think it's just time for a turn of the wheel.

[bluesbassman]

60. For God so loved the world...

That He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. Of course many will recognize this as John 3:16. Some may discount it as another example of the "tyrant God" calling for the death of non-believers, but I see eternal life more as the "restoration" of our relationship with God, and perishing as the absence of that relationship (read John 17-21). As I see it, God wants to have fellowship with beings that have the ability to accept or reject that fellowship, hence our possession of free will. But with this free will came the ability to sin, or act contrary to perfection. The law of the Old Testament was never intended to enable man to attain perfection, in that the flesh is weak, and will invariably at some point choose to sin. But God still wanted to have this fellowship with man, and that's where the sacrifice of Jesus reconciled us to God. Now our free will enables us, through faith, to accept the free gift of restoration. Why is the free gift important? Because it allows any of us, no matter what our previous choices or actions were, to accept this gift and be restored to a bond with God. Does that mean that we will no longer sin or commit acts that are contrary to God's perfect nature? Of course not for we still possess a free will that can make poor choices or decisions. However that does not negate the free gift, for if the gift were given based on future performance then it would not be free.

So are the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons and James Dobsons of the world Christians? I have no idea. Certainly a lot of their words and deeds are not very Christ-like. But they will have to answer for those activities themselves. And as much as the things that they say and do may grieve my spirit, they do not affect my relationship with God, nor do they prevent me from striving to be a better man.

[Zebedeo]

76. Good post, bluesbassman

You have it right.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

70. Good for you

I think it takes courage to call yourself a Christian today, in certain circles. This is one.

[Solon]

77. Wow, what do you want, a cookie?

What are you, special somehow? You risk nothing with this post, so, frankly, its a hollow sentiment.

[LittleClarkie]

78. I sense a disturbance in the force.

This being the Religion/Theology forum and all, such a post would seem at the least to be on topic.

What's the hubbub, bub?

[Solon]

80. This is what really set me off...

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usva&c=words&id=10603

I mean, when I first read about this story, I naively thought that it was an isolated incident, something that the Government would be quick to rectify, that maybe it was a clerical error or mismanagement, something along those lines. How stupid could I be? I mean, look at that, Pagans are discriminated against MORE than Atheists, we are officially persona non grata to the Government, outside of the GLBT community, and it hurts, hurts A LOT. Empty platitudes about being "not that type of Christian" is just not enough, its hypocritical and hollow, actions, not words, that is where it counts. I lost my tolerance for this type of bullshit, and I will speak out, this shit has got to stop.

And then Christians on this board start complaining about "bashing"? What type of hypocritical fucking bullshit is that? You guys get all defensive as if you are fucking victims, you have no clue who the real victims of your actions are. Fuck sensitivity for someone's feelings, fuck respect, fuck it all, why the fuck should I have to put up with that shit?

[struggle4progress]

79. I call myself a Christian, but it may be hypocritical for me to do so.

I haven't given all my goods to the poor. And intellectually, I have essentially no capacity to "believe" the scriptures, though I frequently get much worthwhile from "faith."

Depending on context, I'm often tempted to say I'm an atheist: I'm certainly a materialist, and I read the Bible in a very materialistic manner, as a historical document that is contaminated by all manner of class prejudices associated with the people who wrote and edited it.

Yet I clearly hear the voices of long-dead prophets still crying out against oppression.

The teachings of Jesus the Christ do speak to me.

I do not think that any aspect of my faith depends on whether the Bible is literally true or whether the Jesus can be proved to have lived. If someone demonstrated to me with completely convincing logical and scientific evidence that Jesus was a fiction, I think that my response should be simply this:

G-d (whether G-d "exists" or not) transcends space and time and all my narrow notions, and the Divine is perfectly capable of working its purpose on Earth through fiction, if that is how it chooses to proceed ...