Name some well-known, actual "Christians" who are currently alive

[Orrex]

Many devoted Christians rightly reject the toxic idiocy of such self-appointed spokespersons of Christianity as Falwell, Phelps, or Robertson. Likewise rejected are people like Andrea Yates or David Koresh who committed extreme acts in the name of their faith but who are discounted as "true" Christians.

For the sake of reference, please list several well-known, currently-living Christians, and perhaps a brief word about why they qualify. Jimmy Carter springs to mind, though I'm hardly an expert on the subject.

By the way--please spare us any jokes along the lines of "Christian Slater" and the like!

[trotsky]

1. A Christian is anyone who says they are.

That's all we can ever go on. As soon as people speak up about who is a "true" Christian, well they've already defined themselves or their Christianity as the "true" version, and so anyone who is unlike them is tautologically NOT one.

[kwassa]

14. Sorry, this is YOUR definition only

and I would certainly never use it.

[trotsky]

18. Okey dokey.

Thanks for your input. But just as you deny Falwell, etc. are Christians, so they deny you are.

You don't like my definition, but you typify it.

[Dogmudgeon]

27. It cuts both ways, guys

As with Christians, so with Atheists. And every other "flavah" of believer/nonbeliever, for that matter.

I have a simpler schema: the Good and the Bad. But I also have to contend with my inability to get the "gray area" cases correct 100% of the time, which does complicate things.

--p!

[trotsky]

29. I don't recall ever denying that despicable people like Stalin, Mao...

and so on are all atheists. I have to take them at their word, too. So please, let's do use that knife to cut both ways. That's all I'm asking.

[beam me up scottie]

31. Well,

that may be, but I don't recall ever seeing an atheist denying Stalin's atheism because it made us look bad.

Nor have I ever seen an atheist use the No True Scotsman fallacy.


When it comes to kicking out people who will reflect badly on their denomination, christians have the market cornered.


Those who do so postmortem(ly?) are also guilty of using another fallacy; wishful thinking.

[beam me up scottie]

28. !

You don't like my definition, but you typify it.

[Goblinmonger]

21. Amen, again, my brother.

Apparently believing Christ is divine is not enough. You have to "not suck." Whatever that means, exactly.

[salvorhardin]

2. Bill Moyers

If you don't know who he is, or why I would pick him see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Moyers

One I frequently mention is Don Knuth, one of the most important living computer scientists and devout Christian. As for being well known, he's well known in the computer science field. :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Knuth
Also see his book 3:16 -- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895792524

[Hardrada]

3. Jesse Jackson

The elderly nuns who invade the School of the Americas camp or whatever it's called now.

John Spong, reformist Episcopal bishop.

[kwassa]

4. John Shelby Spong

http://www.beliefnet.com/author/author_44.html

The Rt. Rev. John Shelby Spong, D.D., is the retired bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark. As the author of 14 books, he is the most published member of the House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church in the United States. His bestsellers include "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" and "Why Christianity Must Change or Die." He is a frequent lecturer at conference centers and on college campuses and will be a guest lecturer at Harvard this spring.

[kwassa]

13. Marcus Borg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Borg

Marcus Borg is a contemporary Jesus Scholar and religious author. He holds a Ph.D. from Oxford University and is Hundere Distinguished Professor of Religion and Culture, an endowed chair at Oregon State University. He lectures widely and occasionally appears in the national news media. He is currently president of the Anglican Association of Biblical Scholars and a columnist for Beliefnet.


Borg advocates entering into relationship with God as more important than belief about God. He has a panentheist understanding of God, which sees God as both indwelling in everything and transcendent. He teaches that a historical metaphorical approach to the Bible is more meaningful for today's world than is Biblical literalism,

[darkmaestro019]

15. I love y'all

His was the only name that came to mind for me. I suck. : ) but I was very glad to see at least two people beat me to it.

[lutherj]

5. Cindy Sheehan, Helen Prejean, Joan Chittister, come to mind. nt

[rkc3]

6. Jim Wallis - seems like a perfectly reasonable man.

Author of "God's Politics - How the Right Got It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It."

[LSparkle]

10. Amen (!)

I love that man, and I'm glad that he's been more visible/audible in the media in the past few years.

[trotsky]

19. Jim Wallis makes me nervous.

He seems to be someone who would be OK with a theocracy, so long as it's a liberal theocracy.

[rkc3]

23. All I really know about him is from several interviews - one on TDS

After getting over his comments about having two conversions of faith, everything else seemed to be reasonable to me.

Regarding a theocracy, until he crosses that line, I won't have a problem with him.

[trotsky]

30. When he crosses that line, it will be too late.

I saw him interviewed on the Colbert Report, and again on some "serious" news magazine. I just didn't like what I saw. I'm sure liberal believers will fall in love with him, but those of us who are in favor of secularism have reason to be concerned.

[Lerkfish]

7. Billy Graham is a good example, even though I don't follow his programs.

His conduct and goals have always been christ-consistent, as far as I can tell.

The problem you're going to find is that the most devout christians are never going to be heard of since humility and not wanting to toot one's own horn comes into play.

In other words, you cannot measure a christian life by notoreity.

so the parameters of your question may be, to some degree, self-defeating.

I have known in my life some very worthy, salt of the earth christians who give of themselves and their resources tirelessly to help the poor or disadvantaged, who never boast of it and who never seek recognition. I only know from being there while they were doing it. I would consider these the ultimate christian, though you would have never heard of them.

[grasswire]

8. Jimmy Carter, of course (eom)

[CottonBear]

9. Jane Fonda.

She is a resident of my state and works in the area of teen pregnancy prevention and sex education and empowerment for young women, especially poor and minority girls.

I really admire her. Of course the stupid GA GOP legislators refused to give her recognition for her work this year (I believe that she was nominated by Democrats) because they're more Christian and more Talibornagain than her and, of course, they're men and she's a pinko, commie, Viet-Cong loving liberal.
:grr:

[Orrex]

11. Thank you for the replies, everyone

Honestly, I'm partial to Trotsky's answer, but I appreciate the thoughtful responses.

[bananas]

12. Bill Clinton

[Midnight Rambler]

16. Desmond Tutu

n/t

[Betsy Ross]

17. Jim Wallis

publisher of Sojourner.

[OneBlueSky]

20. Matthew Fox, author of "Original Blessing" . . .

and a number of other books . . .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1585420670/sr=1-1/qid=1145645265/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2238973-2144824?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1585420670.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Friends of Creation Spirituality
http://www.matthewfox.org/sys-tmpl/door/

[kwassa]

22. Stephen Mitchell

http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/stemit/

Stephen Mitchell is a scholar, poet, and translator who has focused on drawing forth the central spiritual themes from much of the world's scripture.

Mr. Mitchell has studied at Yale and Amherst, and is the author of a wide-selling translation of the Tao Te Ching. With grace and deep insight, his books link together ideas from Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity.

http://www.stephenmitchellbooks.com/nonFiction/gospel.html

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS
A New Translation and Guide to his Essential Teaching for Believers and Unbelievers
HarperCollins, 1991

At the center of the book is a new translation, from the Greek, of what might be called the Essential Gospel. Following the example of Thomas Jefferson's The Jefferson Bible, and using the best of modern scholarship, Mr. Mitchell has retained only the authentic sayings and doings of Jesus, and has omitted the passages added by the early church. What is left is an immensely provocative and moving image of Jesus as a real person and as a great spiritual teacher, an image that will challenge and delight readers of any religion or of no religion.

[toddaa]

24. True Christians (c)

Remember the copyright symbol when talking about True Christians (c). Otherwise people will think you are talking about a cheap knockoff.

[Evoman]

25. Why don't we just say all of them...all good people are christian

I mean...most people in the U.S are christians. So then, by chance, most of the good people in the U.S. are christians. Of course, the corrollary is that most of the jerks are christians too. Your list of good christians will no doubt be long.

I just don't see the need for these type of excercises. Why not just leave the christian label off completely and make a list of good people. I just think the christianity part, to a large degree, is meaningless. Good people will do good things. Bad people, bad things. Making a list of good christians, good atheists, good whatever, is dumb.

Just because your write a list of christians who are good AND who believe in the same TYPE of christinaity as you do, it doesn't make you good or useful by default. I mean..really. I could make a list of the greatest, bestest atheists in the world. But what good does that do me. Just because they are atheist like me, its not like it elevates me any. An atheist scientists could come up with a cure for cancer, but I would still be atheist jerk :p.

I'm sorry for pissing on your thread, but I just thought I would give you my point of view.

[Orrex]

33. "sorry for pissing on your thread" -- I don't think that you did

First off, you may or may not be aware that I'm atheist...

The "good people/bad people" label isn't a bad idea, as long as we accept that anyone's definition of "good" and "bad" will be subjective and personal. Additionally, since so many political figures (on the Right, at least) make such a big deal about what righteous Christians they are (all while stealing votes, embezzling, or having sex with minors), one hopes that these posers aren't the real thing.

Since "Christian values" are not mine (except by coincidence where they overlap), I thought it would be useful in forming an idea of the good aspects of Christianity by soliciting opinions about who qualifies as a "real" Christian. The answers have been, IMO, very informative in this regard.

Thanks for your input, though--all opinions are welcome!

[Dogmudgeon]

26. Martin Sheen

--p!

[Proud_Democratt]

32. If I were to pick....a well -known alive Christian.....Jimmy Carter

would be my choice.
Humanitarians are my favorite people whether Muslim, Christian, Atheistic,etc.