Belief in a "Higher Power"

[Yollam]

Belief in a "Higher Power"

[C_U_L8R]

1. And he's all covered with cheese

[wicket]

6. Like the man in the moon?

;)

[smirkymonkey]

52. No, like Cheesus

Yummm...

[BlueEyedSon]

2. My dad just put in a new 20amp line. Now,he has higher power right to his

house.

[yourout]

3. When we die we are just worm food.

I hope I am wrong but my gut says otherwise.

[NicRic]

17. True, however what happens to our soul ?

Is it just fall into a black hole ,nothing ? Gee I hope not ,my belief in a higher power is based on the "must be something better after this" ! It almost like our exprience on earth is a great big expriment,that we must all endure B/4 we move on to what I hope is a after life of pain free exsistance and total happiness ? Those who murdered and lived a evil life ,well I hope they just keep coming back till they get it right .I have a hard time about being sent to endless torture in a place called HE double hockey sticks,then again what happens to guys like John Gacey ,Adolf Hitler, and the numerous other serial killers that have lived amoung us ? To many questions ,to few answers !

[warrens]

24. Those questions need not be linked

Your soul may survive death, but that in no way indicates a higher power. Personally, I think we just fizzle out as a being, but I'd like to think that isn't true. Which is why I am an agnostic, not an atheist.

[libhill]

26. I think so -

that the soul survives death, that is. Even just hanging around a graveyard scaring the crap out of people for eternity beats total oblivion. Then again, as Mark Twain once quipped, "I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and it never caused me the slightest inconvenience".

[Finder]

28. Soul food? n/t

[mondo joe]

30. What soul?

[Zhade]

41. Technically, one would have to prove there IS a soul.

I have my suspicions, but I'd not go so far as to assume one exists. It's a nice thought, though.

[shenmue]

4. Nobody here but us chickens

:7

[Random_Australian]

5. I'll let others believe whatever they want, but higher power is not

for me.
(Unless given evidence, but for Rfitqc's sake let us not start that argument anew.)

[willing dwarf]

7. God is dead-- Nietszche

Nietzsche's dead-- God

I alway's liked that one.

No use in "deciding" on this one. If you stay open and tune itn, you'll find you know what you know, and then your opinion on the subject will get out of the way of your experience. Can't impose that experience on others, need to let it be. Seems to me that that's what God has kindly done with this bit of the universe, just let it be. Surely we can do as much? We won't take anything away from the presence of Being by not believing in its existence. Being simply is and we are part of it.

[Dhalgren]

8. It's the "supernatural" part that kills it for me. Any "power" in the

Universe is natural, whatever it may be...

[TahitiNut]

19. I prefer the term "supranatural."

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

9. Why do powers go around gettin high all the time?

Don't they know they'll get in trouble?

:hide:

[QC]

10. Belief in Forum Rules....

Discussion topics relating to religion that have little or no relation to politics or current events must be posted in the Religion/Theology forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[bryant69]

12. I'm a Forum Rules Agnostic myself

I mean occasionally you see them enforced, but frankly most of those incidents can be attributed to weather balloons.

Just kidding of course, our moderators do a fine job.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. If a poll gets moved between forums

do we get to vote twice?

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. Answer: no

I suspected as much, but I thought it was worth a try.

[johnnie]

11. Interesting..

The comments so far are mostly from non-believers.

[WePurrsevere]

18. Interesting yes...

totally surprising? Not really but maybe I will be later or someday. B-)

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Does the Will to Power count?

Eternal Return?

:evilgrin:

I believe in Nietzsche.

[Dissenting_Prole]

14. Insanity is...

To steadfastlly believe in a "higher power" while being in denial regarding the evidence of global warming, water depletion, over-population, food insecurity, corporate control, weapons of mass destruction, peak oil, 9/11 complicity, resource depletion, global finincial crisis, The War on Drugs, and loss of civil rights borders on insanity.

“the foundation of all mental illness is the avoidance of legitimate suffering.” - Carl Jung

[helderheid]

29. I don't think the belief in a higher power is in conflict with belief in

science. :shrug:

[Dissenting_Prole]

37. Oh yes it is

when people are in such denial about the physical reality they live in, resulting in their own demise and the suffering of others who share that reality.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

48. What do you think Jung meant by that?

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. Had to go with, "I doubt"

Lack of proof is not proof of lack, but it does strengthen the case against. I can't say there absolutely is not, but the weight of evidence is against.

[H2O Man]

16. The universe

is the higher power. We are not separate.

[Theres-a]

35. The fish

discovers the ocean.

[Kazak]

20. "Religion is the laziest form of atheism..."

-Robert Anton Wilson

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. If there is, I doubt that "It" cares what we believe.

Any "Higher Power", worthy of the name, would presumably have better things to do than fret about what a bunch of pipsqueeks on an insignificant planet, circling a minor star, on the outskirts of a speck of one of billions of galaxies, think, believe, or do.

We think we're important out of pure hubris.

[TahitiNut]

22. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Think I'm being waggish? You'd be (mostly) wrong. :dunce:

[Strong Atheist]

23. Guess.

;-)

[Mr_Spock]

25. Agnostic

I wasn't sure where that fit in.

[Neil Lisst]

27. yes, but I don't think it has anything to do with religion or AA

and I don't think it's a creator of the universe

[BeFree]

32. Other

There is a NATURAL power which drives evolution. Some call it G.O.D. The acronym comes from the process that drives its progress of life as we know it. In all life there is first a generation, then that which is generated becomes organized to complete it's task in life. Then it decays back to what it is composed of- in a word - dirt, which then is regenerated and reorganized into another living form. The cycle is continious and circular; just like this planet.

Generate
Organize and
Decay.

[SidDithers]

33. I voted other...

There's no evidence for a supernatural or higher power, so I just go living my life as if there wasn't one.

Sid

[American Tragedy]

34. Might be - I'm open to the possibility, but deeply skeptical.

I'd like to believe it - it's an attractive idea, with undeniable appeal to the human psyche.

Organized religions in general are plainly man-made constructs. At best, they consist of divine wisdom filtered through flawed mortal minds; at worst, lies designed and employed for control, and to justify the worst of crimes. I would sooner be able to convince myself that 2 + 2 = 7 than make myself believe that the Bible, or any other religious literature, is word-for-word absolute truth.

I'm not sure that it has served as a positive influence on balance, but superstitious tendencies are innate, and human civilization makes religion almost inevitable. I don't care to interfere, but I am very very concerned when people try to incorporate it into temporal law, or otherwise force me to pretend that I believe exactly what they do. There still needs to be far more respect for people who are not inclined to religion, especially in the public sector.

Certainly, authoritarianism has occasionally emerged from atheistic ideologies, though it's not even close to being an issue in this country, contrary to a certain recent editorial.

[Odin2005]

38. No higher power, no supernatural.

The religionistas keep talking about design, or a divine plan; I see neither. The Universe just IS, impersonal, deterministic (no free will) cyclic, and eternal.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

49. It is enlessly fascinating to me

how we all look at the same world and come up with such different conclusions. This is a good thing, in my view.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

39. Other--Spiritual force.

Not "supernatural" and certainly not "higher" than human beings.

'S called NATURE.

[LiberalVoice]

40. The choices are totally biased.

A higher power and a supernatural power are completely different things. Higher power would imply someone or something more powerful then us. Supernatural would imply something or someone that does not hold to the laws of nature. One is possible. One is fictitious.

[bluesbassman]

42. Why limit yourself?

If one entertains the possibility that there is a "higher power" that created the laws of nature, then wouldn't it be possible for that entity to be able to manipulate or alter those laws? Science is essentially a collection of theories, some more proven than others. So if a theory we hold to today is altered or disproven altogether tomorrow, does that mean we have not held to the laws of nature? Or does it really mean that we have moved forward in our understanding of our surroundings. We understand so little of this piece of rock we inhabit, I find it plausible to believe that there are mysteries beyond our comprehension. But yet, as with the natural around us, I'm willing to keep searching for answers to the supernatural beyond our grasp.

[LiberalVoice]

43. We have different definitons of higher power.

The original poster never said this so called "higher power" created the laws of nature. I'm just trying to answer the question posed.

While I agree with you about theories and them being disproven and all that, there is no indication of a higher power. Nothing that intervenes in our lives. There is no proof pf a higher power or that its even aware we exist. Til then i'm just going to go ahead and assume there isn't someone or something watchign over us controlling(or even altering) our destiny.

[bluesbassman]

44. That's an interesting position.

In your first post, you indicated that a higher power was possible (a theory), but in your next post you state that there is no proof (facts) that a higher power exists. So in the absence of facts, you assume that there is no higher power. This leads back to my original question; why limit yourself? If we hypothesize that there is the possibility of a higher power, doesn't that enable us to search for more meaning than what we can see, or touch? If we limit our views to only that which can be proven scientifically, I think we limit the ways in which we can expand our understanding.

As for controlling or altering our destiny, b*sh has been attempting that for the past 5 years, and he sure as hell is not MY higher power!

[LiberalVoice]

46. My position changed because the definiton did.

I was replying with regard to your definition of a higher power.

Secondly, bush cannot control nor can he alter destiny. At least not from my perspective. I happen to be a determinist. We're all just energy interacting with oneanother. Energy set in motion a very long time ago.

[NMMNG]

45. Other

I simply don't believe in a supernatural/higher power.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. Isn't it interesting, Buffy,

how we endlessly debate all this? Over and over. And yet it is endlessly fascinating? And if I understand history, we've been doing it since we jumped out of the trees!

T-Grannie

[NMMNG]

53. We'll probably be debating it until the end of time

Or until humans devise some way to force people to believe in god(s), whichever comes first.

[heidler1]

56. True and every once in a while someone like you says a truth that

wipes away my fear that there is no intelligent life on earth. This makes it all worth the wait.

[rd_kent]

47. What makes all of you who voted for "believe absolutely " so sure?

I mean, without proof, how can you be absolutely sure? IMHO, a better response would be "I'm fairly sure", but absolutely? That makes no sense.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

51. Some of us believe we have proof.

But it is not the kind you can easily share, or even want to.

T-Grannie

[rd_kent]

54. Ahh, but BELIEVING is not proof.

Proof as defined by Dictionary.com.

The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
A statement or argument used in such a validation.

Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
Law. The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.

So by the definition of proof, having something you cannot share with me is not proof.
While I understand that you may have a "feeling" that bolsters your belief, it is not proof.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

55. No, not proof for YOU

but proof for ME. And that's really all I care about.

Although I'm sure you are a very nice person and all.

[rd_kent]

57. Well, Thanks. And I think your nice too :)

But in your post you said you BELEIVE you have proof. My post was a response that BELEIVING was not proof. It may be good enough for you, but when you say you have PROOF, thats not a true statement. I would ask, for the sake of accuracy, that if you dont have PROOF that meets the definition of proof, you not say you have proof.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

58. I see your point

and the word "proof" implies that I can explain it logicallly. Which I can't. Yet, it is more than just an abstract belief because my belief comes not from other people, writings, etc., but from things that have happened to me, personally, that has convinced me.

So what terminology do you think would fit? I have knowledge? Personal proof? 180 proof?

T-Grannie

[SPKrazy]

59. Ask Away

Why should she/he have to provide you with proof for you

she has her own

it's called her belief

it's real to her

and what you believe is real to you

no less proven

no less real

[Zhade]

62. "and what you believe is real to you"

And what, precisely, does rd_kent believe, and how do you know what s/he believes, since s/he didn't mention any beliefs?

Did you just assume, because s/he contested (correctly) the idea of unshareable proof (evidence is a better word, but I digress), that s/he is an atheist?

If you did, you still wouldn't know what s/he believes, since atheism is the LACK of belief in gods (unless s/he is a strong atheist).

So when did you gain the ability to read minds? And when did not believing in something that has no objective (i.e. can be shared and tested) evidence become something that has to be proven?

How do you 'prove' lack of belief beyond stating it (which the poster didn't do)?

[SPKrazy]

64. Frankly My Dear, I Don't Give A Damn!

To me atheism is as unprovable as theism.

You can't prove there is no God

I can't prove there is

so we're at a stalemate

my beliefs as real as an atheists.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it

[Zhade]

65. Considering atheism isn't always "there is no god"...

...you have no point in saying it can't be proven. Duh. Of COURSE a null position - "I don't believe in gods because there is no evidence of any" - can't be proven or disproven. It's not how it works. It's just a statement confirming my utter lack of belief in posited deities.

Now, if I were to assert that I was a strong atheist, and thus declare that I am certain there are no gods, you'd be right. But I don't, so you're not, and your diatribe has absolutely zero to do with me.

So, uh, what's your point again?

[SPKrazy]

67. My Point?

That I don't give a damn

[beam me up scottie]

69. Ah, I can feel the christian love.

And to think I used to respect you before you accused DU atheists of bashing christians and told us to shut up.

[Zhade]

71. Okay, but maybe you should, since you were in error.

NT!

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Other.

I think looking for the answers outside of oneself is a waste of time.

Inquire within.

[moobu2]

61. Everything can be explained by what we call natural processes

It (Our existence, Suffering and death and everything) fits more into a world explained in evolutionary terms than one where a supernatural invisible higher power is tinkering with everything. Oh, and I don’t believe in Santa Clause either, however, I’m still uncertain about the Easter bunny.

[Proud_Democratt]

63. I agree somewhat...not everything can be explained.

What gives the birds the urge to fly south for the winter?
What are the UFOs that many people have seen? Where are they from?

[rug]

66. AA: I believe in God. I know it's not me.

[Jigarotta]

68. I don't know why some people think of a higher power

as something to laugh at or mock. some of the silly rituals and conditions are laughable, sure. and that includes every religion ever.

but I believe there is something so tremendously wonderful that connects us all. We are all tiny pieces in some huge magic. and there are those whose interest is to obstacle us to realise how powerful (in the good sense ;) we really are because that would take away the control factor.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

73. Look, I need to ask you something

where did you get my naked picture and use it as your avatar?

[ozone_man]

70. If it were proven that there is no God

there would be no religion. ...But also if it were proven that there is a God, there would be no religion.
-- Ursula K. Le Guin

Sounds like a win win situation to me. The evil is organized religion, not the presence or absence of god.

[nemo137]

72. Where's the button for "it's complicated?"

I can't wrap my mind around a God who exists outside all the laws of the universe, but a God who somehow IS those laws, or is found in those laws, appeals to me.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

74. I like that concept

the God in my life is too infinite to understand. So I don't try.