God vs Evil (not a typo)

[rpgamerd00d]

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question, "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We ha ve created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light presen t. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name -- Albert Einstein


(just thought this was cool)

[NJ Democrats]

1. Wow

no wonder he was a genius!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Cool, but it never happened.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[politicaholic]

15. Yeah, it sounds a little preachy for Albert...

plus, he probably would have skipped this class if that kind of minutia going on.

[ComerPerro]

19. Like most forwards. Cute, but not real

[China_cat]

3. Check Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

False.

[silverweb]

4. Not true.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Snopes is your friend!

:)

[William769]

12. Is snopes 100% infallible?

[Kire]

17. You tell us.

The website is there for you to examine.

[William769]

18. Just asking.

Seems like some people use it like a bible like others are accused of doing.

[EstimatedProphet]

22. No, we use it like an encyclopedia

[silverweb]

21. Probably more like 98-99%.

In any case, their research is very well documented, so I'll always believe them before I believe any one of the hordes of unsourced, undocumented e-mail/urban legend-type stories that keep making the rounds.

What's your problem with Snopes?

[William769]

24. I don't have a problem with snopes,

I have a problem with people using it like a bible & taking it at it's word.

[silverweb]

26. Okay.

In that case, EstimatedProphet already answered you.

Encyclopedia and bible are not equivalent. One is based on documentation and research, the other is based on opinion and faith.

[alittlelark]

41. I was just about to post that...ya beat me to it!

[The Magistrate]

5. Three Will Get You Ten, Sir, This Never Happened

[SPKrazy]

43. Whether It Happened Or Not, The Thought Is Valid

Evil is the absence of God.

That may or may not be true.

Some don't or won't believe in God.

I do.

I don't know if evil is just absence of God, or something else.

I've seen and felt what I consider evil. It certainly seemed to be in the absence of God.

But that may or may not have been all it was.

Whether Al said it or not, doesn't make the thought any less interesting, or plausible.

Thanks

[pirate_pantaloons]

82. thats a bogus statement.

the absence of god presumes you know of god...would people who experienced evil who don't believe in god think that god was absent?

no...its your belief in god that makes it seem hes not there.

[berni_mccoy]

6. NOPE: Check Snope

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Completely made up story.

[Catch22Dem]

7. Never happened

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[msongs]

8. the student's reasoning is off kilter in any event. nt

[Kire]

11. care to elaborate?

Edit: never mind, I'm reading the Snopes article

[karlrschneider]

9. Why did you think it was "cool"? Aside from the fact it's a bullshit lie

:eyes:

[Kire]

10. Another urban legend easily debunked by Snopes.

Claim: While a student, Albert Einstein humiliated an atheist professor by using the "Evil is the absence of God" argument on him.

Status: False.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[MissMarple]

13. Well, I liked it. I don't care if Einstein said it or not.

Evil is the absence of God. Or good. I think that makes more sense than the concept of an active, conscious, self aware evil being of some sort.

And the argument doesn't support the concept of the Christian devil. For Christians the devil is a real entity, evil is not just the absence of good, it is an active opposing force. Just ask Pat Robertson or any random Southern Baptist preacher.

[Pastiche423]

76. Excuse me?

"Evil is the absence of God."

What a crock!

By stating that, you are also saying anyone that does not believe in your god, is evil.

[MissMarple]

77. I think you missed the larger point.

Check YOUR serum porcelain levels.

I stated: "I think that makes more sense than the concept of an active, conscious, self aware evil being of some sort."

Saying that evil is the absence of god isn't consistent with Christian theology. I am not espousing a particular belief system.

I am being quite to the contrary. I didn't say that I believed "Evil is the absence of God". Don't cherry pick and create a straw man argument.

[Pastiche423]

78. What are serum porcelain levels?

I still don't understand your point.

Are you saying it's easier to believe that there are no people who are evil or who have evil intentions, just people who are absent of god?

I'm not trying to fight. I'm trying to understand what you meant.

[MissMarple]

79. Serum porcelain levels refer to "what a crock".

It's sometimes a medical student term, a crockery/ porcelain connection. Some patients are a bit loony and need their serum porcelain levels checked. It's a sad joke, if you will. There is no test for serum porcelain levels.

"I think that makes more sense than the concept of an active, conscious, self aware evil being of some sort."

I mean exactly that. I think it makes more sense to me. I don't know if that is true, I don't absolutely believe that is true. It just makes more sense to me than the Christian DEVIL thing. Some people who call themselves Christian have made the devil into a Bogey man who waits to drag us all into sin and corruption.

I am a deist. I hate dogma. I just thought that the sentiment expressed in the originating post of this thread didn't espouse a Christian point of view. I thought it made a certain amount of sense. We can make good things happen. We can help to make good things happen....or not. That there may be no devil that makes bad things happen, just makes more sense to me. Is that true? I don't really know. In all reality, unless one has a direct connection to something most of the rest of us don't, how would one know?

Bad things happen, and I believe good people can step up to the plate, into the breach. That's it. It's measurable.

The spiritual thing...it's possible.

But, again, I'm a deist. I do believe in god, and a god that is for good things. Why...I can't tell you. It's a faith thing.

Is doing a bad thing or not doing he good thing being absent of God or being consciously evil? I don't know. I also don't know if the devil makes you do bad things or not do good things. I do believe we do have choices. We can try to avoid the "evil" what ever it is, what ever it's origin. Some folks obviously do better than others, and we all do better at sometimes rather than others.

Does that make sense? I really have to go to bed now. I'll check back tomorrow to see if it didn't. :)

[pirate_pantaloons]

84. well technically...

i don't believe in God...but that doesn't mean that people who don't believe light are dark, or people who don't believe in gravity can float...your argument is slightly flawed

[TallahasseeGrannie]

87. No I don't think so

and I don't do logic sentences real well, so I'm kinda on the ledge here. But a person who doesn't believe in God would not necessarily be evil if evil were the definition of the absence of God.

Because disbelief does not mean it doesn't exist.

[pirate_pantaloons]

83. I could maybe agree with evil being the absence of good

but that doesn't make god exist...maybe good is a concept much like light...its there, but its not a being, but more a principle of science and physics.

[Xeric]

14. I'm sure you didn't know this was bogus

But it's just another example of how deceitful religionist apologists can be when trying to push their beliefs. It's not the first time someone has put words in the mouth of a famous scientist. I'll say this once more: if you have to lie to push your belief system, just how good can that belief system be?

[William769]

16. Good for you!

Talking about getting under some skin. :rofl:

I would elaborate but...

[Xeric]

23. see here's a good example

First this religionist tries to deny the obvious fact that this story is nonsense. Then he's actually happy that people were offended by the lie. Is this the kind of disingenuous belief system that everybody should follow? I'd vote no.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Oh please!

Oyoyoy

[WiseButAngrySara]

25. I would LOVE to believe that this was Einstein, but I don't buy it. The

story was great, and some of it would have been quite typical of Einstein.

[Kire]

27. If evil doesn't exist...

...why do you have this in your signature?

[BeTheChange]

30. uhh..

maybe cause someone with a nick like "RPGamer" did a little spoof on the game Resident Evil?

Good grief.

[BeTheChange]

28. It makes no difference who said it to me..

It is still cool and still very much relevant to the way I look at my world.

Thanks for sharing this and ignore all the :rolleyes: "wonderful" people who will be incredibly quick to bash you for your "Christian propaganda" -- Science for-freaking-bid

[rbrison]

44. heh heh

You're not cold, you're absent of heat. So much for the law of common usage.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

29. Einstein quote..... and this one is true and I like the story anyhoo.....

Albert Einstein On War And Killing !

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once".

"Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

[papau]

31. It is cool -but by definition you can not prove matters of faith-and God's

existence or non-existence (down boy - I know some think they need not prove a matter of faith if it is expressed as a negative) or indeed any other characteristic of God.

And Snopes is wrong - Colleges are indeed up to their knees, or at least ankles, in atheist professors hell-bent upon beating the religion out of their charges - atheist evangelism does indeed exist, but only because the atheist is embarrassed to see their friend the theist acting so stupid and therefore the big, bad atheist professors wants only to help the poor theist see the enlightenment that he the Professor has already found.

But I do like the stories - the urban myths - which are indeed "cool" - IMHO :-)

==================================================================
A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he'd stand in front of his class and say, "Have you ever seen God?" to which nobody would answer. Then he'd ask, "Have you ever felt God?" and nobody would answer. Finally he'd ask, "Have you ever heard God?" and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, "It is obvious that there is no God."

One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she'd gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor's little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.

While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, "Professor, would you mind if I said something?" He said, "Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind."

The girl said to the class, "Have you ever seen our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Then she asked, "Have you ever felt our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Finally she asked, "Have you ever heard our professor's brain?" and, like the other times, nobody answered.

She then said, "It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An atheist professor was teaching a college class and he told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God.

He said, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!"

Ten minutes went by.

The professor kept taunting God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting."

He got down to the last couple of minutes and a Marine just released from active duty, and newly registered in the class, walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him flying from his platform.

The professor struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, "What's the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The Marine replied, "God was busy, so He sent me."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Navy SEALs are always taught

1) Keep your priorities in order and
2) Know when to act without hesitation.

A Navy SEAL was attending some college courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU. One day he shocked the class when he came in, looked to the ceiling, and flatly stated, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes."

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am God. I'm still waiting."

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the SEAL got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold. The SEAL went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned and sat there looking on in silence.

The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the SEAL and asked, "What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The SEAL calmly replied, "God was too busy today protecting America's soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid shit and act like an asshole. So He sent me."


========================================================

[Xeric]

34. and here's another one

Another religionist who doesn't mind using deceit to push his beliefs. His Chick Tract mentality pretty much shows how religionists will use any device to convince (themselves mostly) that their beliefs are rational and logical and that there is some kind of atheist conspiracy to destroy them. There isn't, but facts don't really bother these people. To these folks science is just a conspiracy to ruin religion. Kind of sad really.

[rbrison]

38. Hi Xeric!

I use the Flying Spaghetti Monster to irritate the shit out one of my creationist co-workers.

[Xeric]

46. They love feeling persecuted.

Sorry you have to work with creationists. Welcome to DU!

[rbrison]

49. Thanks!

I like it here. Plenty of people to tweak, and plenty of people to back me up! Balance at last!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

88. Chick Tract?

I'm clueless. Is this like "my humps?"

[0007]

32. Beautiful!

[carthagestar]

33. The problem of evil is...

...an old, old philosophical question. It fell in the woods a long time ago and didn't make a sound that anybody admitted hearing!:+

[Jigarotta]

35. bleh, victim is responsible.

we are victim to being.

there truly is evil and good. One can call it whatever you like. the world cannot exist without opposites.

but there is balance, imbalance, according to who has the biggest megaphone. usually churches and suppa - powers!

I had a discussion with an acquaintance who said 'evil does not exist'. I just don't get it.
It would mean good doesn't exist as well. It would mean we are meaningless.

didn't ask him what his adjective would be, if something Evil was done to his child.

[rbrison]

36. How Lame!

So insecure in your faith that you perpetuate phony stories about scientists to try to justify your childhood conditioning! Why not have Jesus saying this to a Pharisee? Is ol' Albert more convincing? http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm. Go here for a list a real Al quotes. I think you will find that Einstein's devoutness has been greatly overstated.

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A. Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo"
This is but one of the gems you will find there. :evilgrin:

[SPKrazy]

45. So Insecure In Your Beliefs

that you have to blast a poster for posting something he/she probably believed was true?

I have no problem with atheists, it's those people who have to try to make themselves feel better by putting someone else's beliefs down.

Welcome to DU?

[rbrison]

55. Actually I may have been a bit harsh.

Einstein is a hero of mine as is Jefferson and Lincoln. I tend to get a little ticked when people try to exploit recognized genius to further their own agenda. If she/he truly believed this trite little tale I apologize for any angst I may have caused and would advise a little research before copying and pasting such missives to forums which could well prove unsympathetic or even scathingly sarcastic to the poster.
However if the purpose was to promote a particular religious view by propagating a known fallacy in order to influence the unwary, the I guess they deserve whatever they get. I expect no better for myself and have been flamed to ashes on more than one occasion for not doing my homework. By the way, I know many strict fundamentalists who would have blasted this poster far more thoroughly than I ever would.

[rbrison]

58. But you gotta give me credit

for digging up a real quote. It just happened to be devastating to the story. Most of them are. The term "truth rears it's ugly head" is frequently literal.

[SPKrazy]

66. I Would Say That Anyone That Believes That We Survive This Life

with our "individuality intact" as in our human flaws and deceits, is truly deluded.

I'm with what I think Einstein was saying. That our soul (whatever that may be it is not our personality or character) does survive, but in it's own form.

Remember the first law of thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

All the energy and matter that exists in the Universe was there at the big bang.

None was created, none is destroyed.

We all have a spark of something in us (I call it the divine) but that spark goes somewhere.
Even if it is just to fertilize the ground for plants, who feed animals, etc. etc.

Personally I believe that a "soul" does survive death, and moves on who knows where.

But I don't think there are streets paved of gold, or that I'll be me as I am anymore.

the destruction of the ego is inevitable. It happens either in this life, or at death.

Transcendence of ego is spiritual.

no pot involved in these thoughts

[rbrison]

69. hey I said I was sorry for the hippy lettuce crack!

[SPKrazy]

70. I'm Just Showing You That I'm Just This Crazy

without any weed in my system

LOL

[rbrison]

72. Yeah the last six years

have been hard on all of us. Would that everyone beliefs were as benign as yours.

[6000eliot]

37. If god is everywhere

then how can he be absent?

[SPKrazy]

47. We Can Obstruct God's Love And Light

through our obstructions, like our intellect, believing we are too smart for all this God stuff might be one.

Defects of character block the sunlight. That is where evil lives.

[Xeric]

53. Yep, because God loves stupid people

Even though He made brains He doesn't want people to use them.
Evil is a human construct. It is relative to time and culture among other things. In the old testament God tells David to commit genocide. Evil? Sounds like it to me, but another culture can justify it.
Some people think all sorts of things are evil. Gay sex is evil to fundies. Not evil to others. Koreans think eating dogs is fine. We Westerners would think it's evil. When we get people who believe that they alone define evil via their interpretation of some book we call them fundies. Most of us think they have a screw loose. Luckily we live in a society where human law takes precedence over whatever belief system is prevalent at the time. I hope it stays that way.

[rbrison]

59. just when I responded to southpaw in a rational manner

he goes all flower child on me. And no, I have no problem with people who indulge in a little tree from time to time. Next I will be bigoted against harmless hippies. I just want everyone to know that if you toke and post you probably aren't making the profound arguments and cutting insights that you think you are and others may make sport of you. It could kill your buzz dude.

[SPKrazy]

61. Dude, I Haven't Toked Anything Tonight

nor for at least 20 years have I partaken of the herb

"flower child"?

It's just my philosophy, sorry if it troubles you that I'm secure in my beliefs and have no problem with you and your beliefs

Peace

[rbrison]

62. It just sounded a little

mystical with all that evil growing in the shadows of humanity's arrogant intellect and such. Anyway live long and phosphorous and sorry 'bout the cheap shot.

[SPKrazy]

63. Evil Does Grow In The Shadows

of humankind's arrogance and intellect

look at Hitler's "science" experiments, and his master race

look at the atomic bomb, even some of the scientists who developed it realized the terrible thing they had done (Oppenheimer I believe)

Look at America under Bush, where the light shines, all it finds is illegal, immoral, and horrid things that he and his kind have done in the name of God and Country. That is evil.

Sunlight kills evil. (in the sense that sunlight is truth and righteousness)

evil grows in dark places with dark people, (and I'm not being racist, I mean dark as in mean, hateful, greedy, arrogant, people who think they are RIGHT, but in reality they are wrong.

[rbrison]

68. At last we find common ground

in our own humanity. But I don't think intellect is the problem. Like any other tool it is the application that defines the ethics. Evil grows in the silence of good people, be they christian or whatever the heck I am. I think most people are basically good and they are beginning to wake up to the fact that our nation has been hijacked not by terrorists with bombs but by men with bibles in one hand and flags in the other. The parallels to Nazi Germany are indeed chilling. Most people are unaware that Hitler began his subversion of the german people with articles which among other things declared Germany a christian nation and dissenters unpatriotic. "God is with us" was on military belt buckles.
Like intellect, I think religion can also be a tool. It gives many people purpose, eases the fear of death and the loss of loved ones, and can be a powerful force in the outpouring of generosity in the face of unthinkable tragedy. But like any tool it can be turned to evil purposes. Oppression of minorities, stifling freedom of thought and deed, persecution of people who are perceived to be threats are a few things that spring to mind.
If enough of us have the courage to look past our pulpits we can put this country back on the road of human progress, and everyone can come along for the ride.

[SPKrazy]

60. God Gives Us Free Will

and some people are stupid, without conscience, damaged by their lives, etc.

maybe some people are evil? Bush? etc.

[dorkulon]

39. Evil doesn't exist.

Neither does God. Get over it.

Einstein was not the devout Christian everbody wants hime to be. His God was the universe, in all its myriad wonders, not some old bearded guy who passed moral judgment on people. He was way too smart to believe anything as inherently dumb as that.

[rbrison]

40. Totally tactless

I loved it!

[BeTheChange]

42. You win friends and influence people all the time with that attitude..

dontcha?

Glad we have another open minded one onboard.

[rbrison]

48. He is open minded

and brutally honest,too. In fact he opened his mind so far that god fell right out! If this piddly little lie of a story is so definitive of your worldview it is certainly your right to believe it. Some of us simply prefer a more comprehensive outlook. Cheers!

[BeTheChange]

51. Cheers to you too..

Brutally honest vs alienating closeminded religious bigotry is evidently the new toe-mate-o toe-mah-to.

[rbrison]

57. That is genuinely funny, albeit in a bitter way.

Here is my take on the whole religion thing. Anyone can believe anything they want. But when you wear it on your sleeve you may be asked to explain why it is exactly that you choose to believe it. ( Or not to believe it as the case may be) I am not closed minded or bigoted to religious folks, I live in Kentucky for crying out loud. I am however opposed to people foisting their personal beliefs on others or using the nomads handbook to oppress others. Take this un-American gay marriage ban that the good people of KY have written into the state constitution. I have not heard a single objection to gay marriage that is not biblically based. The injustice of forcing one group of people to pay higher taxes when living in similar circumstances seems un-American and less than Christian. Pointing out bigotry or calling a lie a lie does not constitute bigotry. I respect anyones right to believe, but draw the line at respecting the so called sanctity of the belief itself when it is used to deny people fair treatment.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

91. Indeed

I know folks who opened their minds so wide their BRAINS fell out!

[dorkulon]

50. Just leave Einstein out of it, please.

I can't stand it when Christians drag Einstein in to support their faith. Einstein was not far from an atheist, and the 20th-century equivalent of Galileo. The mere fact that Christians feel the need to transform him into some 700 Club member just so they can point at a smart guy and say "he agrees with me" only belies the weakness of their arguments. Who's next, Darwin?

[BeTheChange]

52. Im sure the op didnt realize you were such close friends with old Al..

How awesome of you for teaching him a lesson on how accepting we are over here in this great big democratic tent.

But since he posted this, you probably thought he was too stupid to even find the tent, right? Us damn Christians and our low IQs.. such a nuisance to you, Im sure.

[dorkulon]

56. Believe it.

Irrational faith is exactly why a third of the country still supports Bush.

[mondo joe]

67. You don't havve to be friends with Einstein - just do a bit of research.

And for that matter, if you have a position go ahead and state it --- don't use the name and fame of a dead man to bolster your weak argument.

[rbrison]

71. does that mean that

Jesus is out?:evilgrin:

[jonnyblitz]

54. and to top it off, this little essay doesn't even make sense

even if one did believe in GOD. how can he ever be absent if he is everywhere? where does god go to be considered absent? it's like the fundies saying by not allowing prayer you are keeping god out of school. if he is so damn powerful does one think lack of prayer would keep him from entering a space?

I guess making sense isn't a requirement when dealing with religion. :crazy:

[Kire]

64. he doesn't go anywhere

he is just considered absent, and the one who considers him that is associated with evil

[TallahasseeGrannie]

90. Why do you assume

we who are believers think God is "some old bearded guy who passed moral judgment on people"?

That's not at all what I believe. I'd rather be an atheist than believe that. I am not capable of believing that!

I am not sure if evil exists on its own, but the fruits of evil are evident everywhere. Call it what you will.

[bloom]

65. Einstein: On Cosmic Religious Feeling

...The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of
religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's
image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on
it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men
who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were, in
many cases, regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also
as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of
Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to
another if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no
theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science
to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion very
different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically, one
is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable
antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly
convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a
moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of
eventsÑprovided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of causality
really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally
little for social or moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is
inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man's actions are
determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he
cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible
for the motions it undergoes. Science has, therefore, been charged with
undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behaviour
should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and
needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way
if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after
death.

It is, therefore, easy to see why the churches have always fought science
and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that the cosmic
religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific
research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the
devotion without which pioneer work in theoretical science cannot be
achieved are able to grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone
such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can
issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what
a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind
revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to
spend years of solitary labour in disentangling the principles of
celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is
derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely
false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical
world, have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the
world and the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends
can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them
the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless
failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength. A
contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of
ours the serious workers are the only profoundly religious people.

(Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions, Crown Publishers, New York, 1954).

http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Articles/Einstei...

-------

When Einstein was once asked to define God he gave this allegorical answer

"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering
a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child
knows someone must have written those books. It does not know
how. It does not understand the languages in which they were
written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the
arrangement of the books, but doesn't not what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human
being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and
obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our
limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constel-
lations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire
even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the
first philospher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not
two separate things."

-- From G.S. Vierek, Glimpses of the Great (MacCauley, New York, 1930). Quote by D. Brian Einstein, A Life, pg. 186.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=1387

[dorkulon]

73. 'Nuff said. Thanks. (nt)

[rbrison]

74. GOOD NIGHT NOW! I am out!

[Duer 157099]

75. Why isn't everyone discussing the content?

Who cares who might have said it (it's clearly an urban legend), but look at the argument itself:

Cold and dark are both PASSIVE, whereas evil is ACTIVE.

Man. It's a very easy argument to win.

[darkism]

80. Sounds like RW, theist chain mail to me.

Especially judging by some of the other retellings on Snopes.

[Proud_Democratt]

92. RW propaganda.....it reads like a Christian tract.

[rman]

81. no source

[rpgamerd00d]

85. For the record, I'm a Deist.

This just sounded really cool, thought it was worth sharing.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

86. Lovely argument

but I know it will be thrashed and I haven't even read the responses. My gut reaction, however, is that it doesn't sound like Albert Einstein.

Now I'm off to find some popcorn!

[Solon]

89. Bad logic...

I'm not going to go into the whole "whether this is real" shebang that others have covered, but rather I'm going to decimate the argument presented. This coming from a theist mind(though one who doesn't think any God is pure good or pure evil). OK, first the comparisons are false, it plays off the fact that our views on the world are practically binary. For example, in the case of either hot/cold, dark/bright, we use those words to describe our PERCEPTIONS of the world, granted, based on scientific facts and objective reality. Let me see if I can sum it up, ok, things are cold when the tempurature falls well below our own body tempurature, which is about 98.6 degrees farheinheit, give or take a degree or two. Now, things are "cool" when they are NOT drastically cooler than our own body tempurature, like a somewhat comfortable 65-70 degrees or so, they get warm around our body tempurature, like the slightly uncomfortable 90 degrees in the summer, and hot at a balmy 102 degrees. This is based on two things, first is our basic perception as creatures with little natural protection, and our average body tempurature, a Polar Bear would possibly define these differently.

Same thing for light/darkness, also based on our limited perceptions. Things are bright in full sun, within the narrow band of light that we can see, with little augmentation. Yet, when night falls, that is the absense of ONE type of light, but that doesn't mean that all forms of light are extinguished in what we call darkness. A pitch black night to us is like an overcast day to a cat or dog, and to animals that don't see in the visible band, even a night with no light is filled with other types of light, mosquitos see heat, so to them, we and all endotherms are the light.

The thing that is clear however is that evil, as we understand it, requires an OVERT act by a sentient being to BE evil, its still cold out if humans aren't around, and its still dark with no humans around. That much is clear, we developed machines to measure these two examples of physical laws, yet Evil is different, its an overt act, as I mentioned, but also it is objectively unmeasurable, unlike the other two examples. Evil can be defined as actions humans partake in that threaten the very fabric of human society, but also its a cultural construct for cohesiveness that we developed punishments and exceptions for. Some of these are universal in all human societies, prohibitions against murder, theft, etc. others are less universal, mostly religious constructs, such as outlawing certain beliefs or practices that are not necessarily harmful to other members of those societies.

Unlike the Heat/Cold, Light/Darkness comparison, we cannot apply the label of Evil to inanimate objects. Red Dwarf stars are cold(for stars), yet a supernova that destroys a civilization isn't evil, for it isn't sentient. Neither do we call Lions evil for taking down Antelope to eat, nor do we call a human who kills another to defend either their life or someone else's as evil either. Its almost purely subjective, and isn't objectively measurable, so if Einstien did say this, he gets an "F" in logic.

[Kire]

93. I wonder if it ever gets colder than Absolute Zero.

[Solon]

94. nope, in fact its impossible to get AS cold as Absolute Zero...

the Universe is too warm for that, the coldest section of space is still a fraction of a degree above 0 degrees Kelvin.