John the Baptist Cave: New Secrets Emerge

[lovuian]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/package.jsp?floc=cp-tos-toda-h-03&name=fte/cavesecrets/cavesecrets

John the Baptist Cave: New Secrets Emerge

In 2004, archaeologists announced they had found a cave where they believe John the Baptist anointed many of his disciples, offering extraordinary proof of a central New Testament figure and his theology.

The cave includes a huge cistern with 28 steps that lead to an underground pool of water. Some 250,000 pottery shards were also found and are presumed to be remnants of small water jugs used in the Christian baptismal ritual performed by the fiery New Testament preacher. Wall carvings etched into the cave tell John's life story; they were likely made by monks in the fourth or fifth century. In addition, a stone was found in the cave that researchers believe was used for ceremonial foot washing.

Now new secrets and mysteries have emerged from this cave, known as the Suba Cave.

more...
What a discovery...

[DavidDvorkin]

1. Meaningless

The cave may tell us something about a group of monks in the fourth or fifth century. They say nothing about a man who might have lived a few centuries earlier but probably never existed.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. I thought Jesus was the one who maybe never existed...

:evilgrin:

I do find it interesting, even if it only dates back to the 4th or 5 century.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. He and all of his buddies

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. Dang!

If it tells me about monks in the fourth and fith centuries, I call that very interesting!

[H2O Man]

3. Interesting.

He is one of the more interesting figures of that era.

[mickeymystro]

4. No "Extraordinary Proof" Here

I understand how reports of this type can appear persuasive. However, this article demonstrates many errors common to non-scientific writing:

1. This article demonstrates a common misuse of the word “proof”. Proofs are built upon evidence. This article presents shaky evidence at best and absolutely no proof that John the Baptist existed.

2. The researchers discovered evidence that Christian baptisms occurred at this site but they presented no evidence that John the Baptist conducted these baptisms. Just because 4th century monks believed that John the Baptist worked in this cave is not evidence that he actually did. The wall carvings present a claim by these monks that John the Baptist used these caves but there is no evidence to back up this claim.

3. Scientific evidence of John the Baptist’s presence in this cave is completely lacking. Did the researchers find, for example, hair samples that could be DNA-matched to known descendants of John the Baptist? No. Without empirical evidence, the mere written words of true-believers has no value.

There is no doubt that this cave was used for Christian baptisms and that 4th century monks believed that John the Baptist used this cave for such work. But just as in the case of “researchers” who believe that crop circles are created by space aliens or the case of “researchers” who believe that Big Foot wanders the vast North-West, such belief does not, in and of itself, serve as evidence. These are claims that must be supported by evidence and this evidence is completely absent.

No “extraordinary proof” here.

[SidDithers]

5. Good post...

and welcome to DU!

sid

[noonwitch]

6. The article gives very little information

It doesn't say where on the Jordan the cave is located, or any reason to believe it is the cave where John baptized people.

Sometimes, though, the activities in later centuries, like christian baptisms in the 3rd or 4th centuries, occurred in a specific place because of local legends that may have some ground in reality. It is something worth archeological study.

[sutz12]

11. News flash...

Archeologists have discovered a Western American City called "San Francisco" proving beyond a doubt that Sam Spade, long thought to be a fictional character of novels and movies, plied his detective trade there sometime in the 1940's. :sarcasm:

A location does not prove anything about who was actually there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. John the Baptist never performed "Christian" baptisms

For one thing, he was executed by Herod during the time Jesus was still wandering around Judaea. His ritual was more of a public confession of sins.

Furthermore, the article gives no proof that John the Baptist ever used that cave.

[Bridget Burke]

9. This is a fascinating find.

Of course, I'm a sucker for archaeology.

However, stating one's conclusions about a site before all the work has been done is NOT science. Not with phrases like "presumed to be." In fact, most of the artifacts found date back to the Iron Age. Along with some engravings done centuries after John had his run-in with Salome.

By the way, James D Tabor is NOT an archaeologist. He's Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. It sounds as though he's done some interesting work--but mostly NOT in the field of Archaeology.

www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/bio.html