Bishop of Chelmsford left stranded in Kenya in row over gay rights

[muriel_volestrangler]

The deep divisions within the Anglican Church over homosexuality have been re-ignited after the Archbishop of Kenya suddenly withdrew all assistance from a visiting English bishop who is committed to gay rights.

The Right Rev John Gladwin, the Bishop of Chelmsford, was visiting a diocese near Nairobi when he was told that the Most Rev Benjamin Nzimbi was abandoning all planned events and activities to celebrate his visit because of his stance on homosexual issues.
...
Several events, receptions and activities had been organised by the archbishop, but it appears he then discovered that the bishop had been named this month as a patron of Changing Attitude, a campaigning group that promotes equality of opportunity for lesbian, gay and bisexual people in the Church.
...
Archbishop Nzimbi said: "Now since we have known his (Bishop Gladwin's) position through factual fact-finding correspondences, we are unable to continue advancing the lined-up activities with the Diocese of Chelmsford." Without the archbishop's support the visitors have in effect been expelled by the Kenyan church.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article571676.ece

Ah, tolerance, how nice to see it in practice among the fellow members of a church ...

[xchrom]

1. you can't believe the anger this stuff is causing.

there are those of us who are past ready for the church to split.

i can't out anybody here -- but the bishop of uganda just asked my priest to do something -- irregular -- with money -- over gay and sexuality issues.

i'm just an episcopal church goer -- and i intend to stay that way because of my anger over stuff like this.

i'm not a ''third way'' peaceful person in the anglican/episcopal tradition when it comes to this level of hate.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. I am staying with the Episcopal church

and not going with the Anglican off-shoots, even though I really like a lot of things about the traditional Anglican services.

I think the gay issue is just going to take time. There has been enormous progress in a very few years. It's a huge paradigm shift for millions of folks and it has to filter down to grass roots. It is easy to be against gay right if you don't know any gay people personally.

As I know you already know. It must be difficult to be gay and be so close but yet so far away.

[davidinalameda]

6. one of the reasons that I became an Episcopalian was because of this

I was looking for a church and being raised Catholic, I didn't want anything too Protestant

there's not an MCC close to me

I decided to look at Episcopal churches because I wanted to support the inclusiveness that is being preached in so many of our churches today in spite of the malice that's being put forth by others

I'm glad I did that because I can't imagine belonging to any other church

I have a home

[xchrom]

9. lol -- i wasn't being as clear as i would have liked.

i can't do things like be a delgate to this or that -- cause i get hopin mad.

they're all calm and serene -- and i harsh their mellow.

[davidinalameda]

10. my rector is calm and serene but I wouldn't want to piss him off

if you have enough wine at parties and the like, everyone is calm and serene

my church is definately not your sterotypical WASP Episcopal type deal

for my last newcomers' class, we went out for beer and pizza with the seminarian who was faciliating the class

great woman-love her to death-she just graduated last Friday from seminary.

last Thursday, a bunch of us, including two members who have been around forever, got together for chili and assorted alcoholic beverages

the rector and assistant rector were there

people are very up on the idea of our church doing GLBT outreach-we're in an area of Oakland where there's a lot of gays in the neighborhood

there are a good number of gay members already

[xchrom]

11. i think i've been to your church.

i've been -- i think -- to peace and justice meetings there.

[T_i_B]

3. Oh dear

I used to attend a church in Chelmsford with close links to the Cathedral. Mind you, it was the Dean of the Cathedral who used you used to see about town more then the Bishop.

I think Chelmsford has the smallest cathedral of anywhere in Briain if you are interested. It's just an old parish Church that got made into a Cathedral in 1914. If you want to visit an interesting Church in Essex however, I would reccomend St Peter-on-the-wall at Bradwell On Sea, built on the site where St Cedd arrived to bring Christianity to the natives of Essex in 653.

[kwassa]

8. The former music minister of our church was from Chelmsford

There has been a slow migration of British choir directors trickling into the Washington, D.C. diocese, as there seem to be a network of them trying to get work here, due to dropping attendance in England and the inability of congregations to support music programs. Many local churches here are dominated by Anglophiles. They want that English connection.

The ones I know are gay, too, which is only worth mentioning because it is a central part of the conflict within the church. We have plenty of gay clergy, too. I was astounded when the elevation of Gene Robinson became an issue. It is so normal as to not even be worth discussing.

[T_i_B]

12. Small world eh?

Carry on at this rate and people may start to think that Chelmsford is some sort of great religious centre, and it really is not. The only Church doing well in Chelmsford at the minute are the Baptists, who are quite businesslike and modern in their approach I find.

[kwassa]

4. Expelled from what?

No one in the Anglican Communion has power over anyone else, except within a diocese.

This is nothing but grandstanding by the Kenyan bishop, and basic rudeness. I can hardly wait for the African bishops to split.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. I'm not quite sure what they mean by 'expelled' either

Maybe they mean that the archbishop has told the Kenayn diocese(s) not to cooperate with him. This is certainly the way to split the church.

[kwassa]

7. This is a giant, long-term ongoing battle within the Communion

that started with the ordination of Gene Robinson as the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal church.

The African churches are very conservative (never mind that polygamy is overlooked) and have had the greatest numbers and growth in the Communion. There is terrific anti-gay prejudice in these diocese.

I think there is a schism in our future, and I for one don't care.