Could it be that we are seeing a major realignment of

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

the God concept?

Let me explain. I hold to the idea that as mankind evolved, he/she developed concepts to explain natural phenomenae and another set of concepts detailing what should be proper behavior amongst members of the group or tribe or nation. It started in pre-history with cave paintings, figurines, and later carvings on temples. The Vedas, Zendavesta of Zarathustra, the Dhammapada, the Bible, the Qur'an--all these writings convey concepts of God (or Reality) and also detail a code of behavior designed to make a person be able to live in peace and harmony with his/her neighbors.

If one studies these works, and the history of the spritual paths they represent, one also finds at times that the God concept changes.
What appears to happen, historically, is that from time to time something happens that causes this change-for example, the Babylonian Captivity gave rise in the Jewish faith of the Devil-a borrowing from Zoroastrianism, but perhaps also a way of dealing with the trauma of being in exile.

We are in a time of great trauma now. Wars, earth changes, and groups using what they call their faith to justify actions that are not in accordance to the teachings of their prophets. I can't see how religion as it has been known before by the mainstream can continue to exist. I think a new God concept is in the process of being created-one that allows for many viewpoints, many paths, with a tolerance that is like that of the Dalai Lama, who said, "In Sufism, everything is. In Buddhism, nothing is. Same thing, no difference."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong

describes how, at about the same time in history (about 800-300 BCE), the major religions all developed concepts of "God" or spirituality based on a variant of the Golden Rule, as a result of all the wars and violence and destruction. All the spiritual leaders of these times called for a renunciation of selfishness and the exercise of compassion for all people, not just members of their tribe or group. A fascinating book that offers a very interesting perspective on the history of religion and what's happening now -- I recommend it very highly.

[bloom]

6. "renunciation of selfishness and the exercise of compassion for all people

I think it's interesting how nearly all religions that seem to end up being relevant have that as an aspect.

I don't think it's an accident.


There are also such things as "positive psychology" which says similar things.

Some people want to hear it in the frame of a religion - some hear it better in the frame of something scientific.

"In the past, the study of behavior has focused mainly on what goes wrong in human affairs: aggression, mental disease, failure and hopelessness. While it is essential to study and contain such pathologies, it is equally important to understand those aspects of human experience that make life worth living. "

http://qlrc.cgu.edu/about.htm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. and both ways are equally good

the goal is to overcome the influence of the ego so that we escape our own self-created "mind traps" that consist of judgements and concepts and perceptions that we take for immutable facts. From a scientific aspect, we are physically retooling our brains when we change concepts and start practicing different behaviors. My doctor, in a recent lecture, cited a study that showed that the brain patterns of Buddhist monks were different from lay people-the result, it is thought, of their meditations.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Yes, yes, indeed it is!

Thanks for the book title-Karen Armstrong's books are always insightful to me.

In many spiritual paths, the goal is to either overcome or train the ego so that one can directly experience That Which Is All. In the brief times I have been in Unity, the feeling is so different than the everyday-peaceful and loving. Soon, hopefully, soon, this transformation will come so that more can experience Unity.

[annabanana]

2. I agree with the idea

of the evolution of the concept of God (or any unifying spiritual principle). I see our biggest problem in the world right now as the differing stages of that evolution, since different societies have advanced in their communication capabilities at unequal rates.

As soon as "the other" can be seen as "the same as you and me", another bridge has been built (or another synapse has fired)

If the predominant societies manage to destroy humanity as we know it, the next blueprint will have to be adjusted to let societies umm... release... the tribal notion of their unique claim on the management position.

Does that make any sense?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. yes it does

I was listening to a talk by Ekhart Tolle today and he talked about this, how when one can just "be" without the noise of thoughts, judgements, etc, you get beyond "you and me" and are One. A place of peacefulness where you realize no need for conflict, which is a trap of the ego, because you find who you truly are.

My doctor, who is also a mystic, says that indeed new synapsis are created as we experience new concepts; these synapsis are strenghtened and multiplied by the repetition of the feelings and the concepts that engender them.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Well, my wife would identify herself as a Christian, but

she is widely read in all the other major religious traditions, does shamanic journeys, would have no problem with an Ojibwe sweat lodge ceremony, doesn't think there is anything wrong with non-Christians, profoundly admires the Dalai Lama, etc. Near as I can fgure out, Christianity is sorta like her native language to her. It happens to be the one she was born into, she's most comfortable with it, but she doesn't think it's the only one that has value and utility. Other religions are perfectly fine for those who practice them, and she has no more urge to convert a Muslim than she does to make someone switch from Mandarin to English.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. I know many Christians like her

and also many of other paths who also view all paths as leading to the same goal.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. I like that analogy! nt

[bloom]

4. I wish you were right.

I wish that you and I could write the "rules" by which countries operated. I think we could figure it out.


I think that Einstein got it:

"The only real valuable thing is intuition."

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."


There are the two sides - they are both necessary. Science and intuition (which can seem like religion).


We have one world and it's getting smaller all the time - with more people - more connectedness and such.


But what I think that we are seeing are the last attempts by the Warmongers - which include the US, Israel and some people in the Middle East - (the people who have followed the God of Abraham as it turns out) to assert their dominance once and for all. To be on top of the world - a la the PNAC thing.

Maybe it will all fall apart and people who have a vision of peace will be able to step in. I don't know - I think it's going to be a mess.

I should try to have more hope. Sigh.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Mystics always say

to follow your intuition. You can tell that's what it is if it "feels right" and, in my case, if it has you do things that aren't expected, that don't "follow the rules". My intuition led me from Christianity to Sufism and back to better understand Christianity and then on to discover the connection of science and spirituality.

[BanzaiBonnie]

5. We are in a time of great changes

Good call ayeshahaqqiqa!

Personally, I am as Pagan, as I am Christian, as I am Buddhist.

I hold science in high esteem and seek knowledge through many channels. It seems that the current RR's attempt to discredit science and what we can learn from science, is because they feel their belief system is threatened by such knowledge.



In the vein of change, I have been so inspired by Secrets of the Lost Mode of Prayer by Gregg Braden, that I put up this website:

8000forpeace.com/

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Thank you

I'll check out the website.

[SPKrazy]

13. I Like That

I am as Pagan, as I am Christian, as I am Buddhist

I agree with everything you posted, and with everything that has been on this thread so far

[JerseygirlCT]

14. I hope you are correct. nt

[catbert836]

16. It could be

that this chane of the God concept you mention is taking place is related to the vast political changes that we are seeing. For example, the change of the Mediterranean world (the cradle of civilization at its time) from paganism to monotheism was happening at the same time as the imperial system of the Roman Empire transformed into feudal system of Medieval Europe. It will be interesting to see what political and religious realignments we will see in the future.

[Odin2005]

17. The late historian A. J. Toynbee had a fascinating take on this.

I read his great work A Study of History this spring and in the chapter "Universal Churches" he had a very interesting take on the evolution of religion and spirituality that the pantheist/mystical DUers like Ayeshahaqqiqa would find very interesting (Toynbee considered himself a pantheist Christian and had a great distain for the "the infidels will burn in Hell" types).

He basically sees the history of religion as a story of people trying to free themselves from tribalistic "us vs. them" religious traditions. Most great spiritual "innovations" occur when a civilization is in decline and is usually the creation of the opressed and downtrodden people within that dying civilization. The decline of the first generation of civilizations, like Summer, triggered the development of the first non-tribal mystical traditions. The second generation of civilizations spawned the modern great religions; the Babylonic civilization gave us Judaism and Zoroasteriansm; the Syriac Civilization gace us Eastern Christianity and Islam; Graeco-Roman Civilization gave us Western Christianity. Classical Indic Civilization gave us Mahayana Buddhism and the modern, pantheistic form of Hinduism.

These religions were well on thier way to becoming truely universal faiths, but were perverted (with the exceptions of Buddhism and Hinduism) into tribal religions by the universal states of the dying civilizations (like Rome) or became a badge of identiy of an opressed people (like the Jews). Now the 3rd generation of civilizations are in decline, and already new universal religions, like Baha'ism, are poping into existance and are fixing the errors caused by the perversion of the current great religions into tribal cults.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. Sounds like a good book

I'll look for it.

[NMMNG]

18. That would be beautiful

The fundamentalists are the major stumbling block, with their insistence on "our God is the only God, His path is the only path, everyone else will be damned by Him and by us".

A live and let live concept would make the world a much better place for everyone.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. I believe the World Wars of the 20th century caused a rise in agnosticism

and atheism, especially in countries where the slaughter was greatest, and most pointless. I think the First World War encouraged a skeptical and cynical view of a "caring God" when so many men died in meaningless battles, and the genocide of the Second World War reinforced this feeling. The USA, having far fewer deaths, especially in the First World War, wasn't affected so much by this. European countries found it very difficult to believe "God is on our side" after the wars. China is a more difficult situation - the rise of communism, and its antipathy to public religion, makes it difficult to judge whether faith was dealt a blow by the war there.

[okasha]

20. I think you're right

When Ptecincala Ska Wakan Winan came to the Lakota people, she gave them the Seven Ceremonies and an understanding of spirit/divinity in all that exists. She also said that she would return and that the time of the White Buffalo would be an era of great change and restoration. If the signs are true, and the Lakota elders believe they are, that time is almost upon us. So is the coming of the Fifth Sun.

Unfortunately, also I think there's some really nasty stuff to get through first.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. I've heard the same thing

I know there were several white buffalo calves born around 2000-I've visited the one in Janesville Wisconsin twice-really a sacred experience. The Hopi elders recently came forth publicly with the warning that earth changes will be coming soon. They, and practically every other spiritual spokesperson who has talked on the subject say that it is important to focus on whatever spiritual practices/ceremonies you do, that this is the best prepartation for the birthing of whatever is to come.