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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:08 PM
Original message
Could it happen here?
In the ME we have a clash of cultures, of creeds. Here in the US we become more polarized by the day.

Watching the TV today I feel like finding a right winger and just TALKING IT OUT. Shuck corn together. Talk about the tomatoes.

Anything is better than lobbing missiles willy nilly into neighborhoods filled with old grannies and newborns and sick kids and pregnant women and ....

could it happen here? are we any better?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't happen here.... the popo will put you in leg irons before
the next episode of COPS is over... I'm just sayin'.
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AGiordino Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yeah, just look to the news item about the Telco Network
technician at work in one of those little huts at the base of a cell-tower who was shot by a cop.
A cop who went in gun drawn expecting trouble not bothering to find out the facts first.
Shoot first, investigate when convenient.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. If we were attacked, and/or invaded, and/or occupied
it most certainly could and would happen here.

And it has happened before, many times, actually.

The massacre of Native Americans at Wounded Knee is a great example:
The military hired civilians to bury the dead Lakota after an intervening snowstorm had abated. Arriving at the battleground, the burial party found the deceased frozen in contorted positions by the freezing weather. They were gathered up and placed in a common grave. 146 dead Lakota were found on the field: 84 men and boys, 44 women, and 18 children. 7 wounded Lakota died in the Pine Ridge hospital of wounds received at Wounded Knee Creek.

Colonel Forsyth was immediately denounced by General Nelson Miles and relieved of command. An exhaustive Army Court of Inquiry convened by Miles criticized Forsyth for his tactical dispositions, but otherwise exonerated him of responsibility. The court of Inquiry, however, while it did include several cases of personal testimony pointing towards misconduct, was itself flawed. It was not conducted as a formal court-martial, and without the legal boundaries of that format, several of the witnesses obviously minimzed their comments and statements to protect themselves or peers. Ultimately the Secretary of War concurred and reinstated Forsyth to command of the 7th. Testimony before the court indicated that for the most part troopers attempted to avoid non-combatant casualties. Nevertheless Miles ignored the results of the Court of Inquiry and continued to criticize Forsyth, whom he believed had deliberately disobeyed orders. The concept of Wounded Knee as a deliberate massacre rather than a tragedy caused by poor decisions stems from Miles.

Public reaction to the battle among Americans was at the time generally favorable. Twenty Medals of Honor were awarded for the action. Ironically, a decade later when these (and all MoHs) were reviewed, it was Miles himself who saw that they were retained. Currently, Native Americans are urgently seeking the recall of what they refer to as "Medals of Dis-Honor". Many non-Lakota living near the reservations interpreted the battle as a defeat of a murderous cult, though some confused Ghost Dancers with Native Americans in general. In an editorial in response to the event, a young newspaper editor, L. Frank Baum, later famous as the author of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, wrote in the Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer on January 3, 1891:

"The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extermination of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries, we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth. In this lies future safety for our settlers and the soldiers who are under incompetent commands. Otherwise, we may expect future years to be as full of trouble with the redskins as those have been in the past."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre


What happened at Wounded Knee was not an isolated incident.
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bluesbassman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The similarity between then and now is amazing.
Nice post BMUS, let's look at this quote:

"The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extermination of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries, we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth. In this lies future safety for our settlers and the soldiers who are under incompetent commands. Otherwise, we may expect future years to be as full of trouble with the redskins as those have been in the past."

Now let's fast forward to 2006, and see how it reads:

"The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extermination of the Iraqis. Having wronged them for centuries, we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth. In this lies future safety for our contractors and the soldiers who are under incompetent commands. Otherwise, we may expect future years to be as full of trouble with the Muslims as those have been in the past."

Not to far fetched, is it?
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That quote is what inspired me to post.
Those who do not learn from history...

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, we (for the most part) don't have a bunch of machine guns or
rockets hanging around our houses. Fortunately, the nutcases who DO have those are pretty few and far between.

Redstone
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. If it happens, it won't be the same, for several reasons
for one thing, this country is a lot bigger than the Middle East. More land, more room makes it easier to move away from fighting, and not have it concentrated in the same place.

for another, the history of America is different from the Middle East. We've had a participatory democracy for 200 years, and a Constitution that can and has been changed to suit the times. Citizens are aware of this, and most count on the rule of law to solve grievances.
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InaneAnanity Donating Member (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Happened here 140 years ago
Could happen here again. If voter fraud continues unmitigated, I fully expect some people to lash out.

Personally, I won't fight anyone unless I'm personally in danger. Even if election fraud continues, I'd leave the country before fighting back physically.
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TRRepublican Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. There are several ways to reduce fraud...
Let's implement them.

1. Make sure voter lists are updated. I saw that 2 of my children are still on my precinct's list 2 years after they moved out and registered elsewhere. This is unacceptable.

2. Picture ID must be required. This is to prevent obvious ringers from voting. It has always been joked that the "dead still vote" in places like Chicago. I know that this is one item opposed by Democrats in general, but if you want to clean up fraud, then go all the way. This is probably one of the cheaper areas (for the states) to improve on.

3. Make sure there is ALWAYS a paper trail. All machines must print a paper ballot for two purposes: first to allow the voter easy verification that he actually voted for who he wanted, and second to provide a method for recounts. Further, the question of Diebold fraud can be easily handled by this case.

4. Thorough investigations (and replacements) of boards where obvious fraud occurs. Every major election cycle, there are a number of precincts where there are more voters than registered voters. It would also put some teeth into the case 3 above.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't understand how the US can have so much problems
with elections. Here in Canada, you register to vote. Once you are registered, you are sent a election ballot identification thingy. You take this to your voting place (usually a school), and hand it to the nice old lady at the booth. She crosses your name of the list of voters, give you a paper ballot, and you go into the voting booth. You mark off one of the little circles, and put it into this machine that verifies who you voted for (theres a paper trail) and thats it. Your employers are required to give you enough time off to vote. Its so simple...
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You silly Canadians...
You need incredibly complex software to count votes. Any fool knows people don't have enough fingers (or even toes) to count all the votes.

And if God said he made Adam out of dirt, well that's just that. You can't argue.

I don't even know why I read DU. I could be watching Fox News. It's fair and balanced, unlike this little hell.


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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. I tried having an email exchange
with a right-wing FOX viewer once.

What I think prevented communication was his absolute belief that liberals were evil and stupid. Plus he absolutely believed his sources - O'Reilly and Savage and such. And of course - I absolutely believed his sources were wrong.

It's the same sort of thing that some people think about people who have other religions or no religion or whatever.


The government is making these camps for somebody -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8272096722231303649&q=FEMA+camp


It's often the liberals - the far left activist types - that go first.
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cain_7777 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. We have been at war inside America for some time now
not with physical weapons but ideology. Religious verse secular, right verse left and so on. Bush has used religion and politics to divide this nation in order to fracture the power of the people into ineffective pieces. Rove must have read Machiavelli's "The Prince."
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. Didn't it already happen here?
What else would our Civil War be described as? I mean it was a clash of creeds and beliefs to some degree.

I say yes, it can happen here and if we don't talk it out or find some way to educate people on the idea of "live and let live," we are in big trouble.
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