More faux concern from the Fundies

[NMMNG]

In this article they denounce democrats for the alleged "abortion/breast cancer link". It seems they're all concerned about women getting breast cancer when they could care less about them getting cervical cancer when they're railing against the vaccine that could prevent it because they allege getting the vaccine will "make them promiscuous".






Now they claim concern for the poor (whom they never care about normally) because it is convenient for them when they need to trash efforts to curb Global Warming.


WASHINGTON, July 24 /Christian Newswire/ -- Amid mounting controversy among evangelical Christians over global warming and climate policy, the Interfaith Stewardship Alliance presented “A Call to Truth, Prudence and Protection of the Poor: An Evangelical Response to Global Warming” at the National Press Club Tuesday morning. The paper is a refutation of the Evangelical Climate Initiative’s “Climate Change: An Evangelical Call to Action,” released last February, and a call to climate policies that will “better protect the world’s poor and promote their economic development.”

ISA’s 24-page paper has been endorsed by 130 leaders, including 111 evangelical theologians, pastors, climate scientists, environmental and developmental economists, and others, plus non-evangelical experts on climate change. The paper presents scientific, economic, ethical, and theological evidence that mandatory carbon-emissions reductions to mitigate global warming would “not only fail to achieve that end but would also have the unintended consequence of serious harm to the world's poor, delaying for decades or generations their rise from poverty and its attendant high rates of disease and premature death, and robbing them of the very tools they need to protect themselves from catastrophes.” It argues that foreseeable warming will “probably be moderate, within the range of natural variation, and may on balance be more beneficial than harmful to humankind.”

July 25’s presenters were Dr. David R. Legates, climatologist and director of the Center for Climatic Studies at the University of Delaware ( introduced by University of Alabama climatologist and “Call to Truth” co-author Dr. Roy Spencer); Dr. Kenneth Chilton, Director of the Institute for the Study of Economics and the Environment, Lindenwood University, Missouri; Rev. Dr. Jim Tonkowich, President, Institute on Religion and Democracy, Washington, D.C.; Rev. Abdul Karim Sesay, Senior Pastor, Kings and Priests Court International Ministries, Silver Spring, Maryland; and Dr. E. Calvin Beisner, associate professor of social ethics at Knox Theological Seminary, national spokesman of the Interfaith Stewardship Alliance, and “Call to Truth” co-author.

ISA is a coalition of religious leaders, clergy, theologians, scientists, academics, and other policy experts committed to bringing a proper and balanced Biblical view of stewardship to critical issues of environment and economic development. Through its “Cornwall Network” the coalition works with churches, educational institutions, and other entities worldwide to promote principles of the Cornwall Declaration on Environmental Stewardship. Reference: www.interfaithstewardship.org

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/27830594.html




Does their hypocrisy know no bounds?

[DeSwiss]

1. You said it Buffy....

:yourock: And you are so right about their hypocrisy concerning the cervical cancer vaccine.

And most of these so-called "climate scientists" wouldn't know empirical evidence if it bit them on the ass. I bet is you'd check their credentials, most probably graduated from Liberty University or some other similar matchbook correspondence school. With a gentlemen's "C" at that. Like their President. :dunce:

And explain to me just what the hell is "theological evidence that mandatory carbon-emissions reductions to mitigate global warming would not only fail to achieve that end but would also have the unintended consequence of serious harm to the world's poor"?

How does one go about acquiring scientific climate data "theologically?" I thought their shtick was all based on faith? I hope they haven't reverted to reading goat entrails. Sheesh. These people need to get real jobs.

This "paper" is a real piece of crap :puffpiece:

[NMMNG]

2. Not to mention

Everything I've ever read/heard calls upon developed nations to work towards cutting back carbon emmisions and finding alternative fuels to decrease Global Warming. Developing nations aren't even a concern since they really can't do anything without severely impacting their growth and economies. Once again the Fundies are, to the best of my knowledge, outright lying to further their agenda.

[beam me up scottie]

3. Welcome to DU!

Nice use of smilies, btw!

[DeSwiss]

8. Thanks Scottie...

I pride myself on the creative usage of smileys. There's so little to smile about these days. Its important, I think, to use them whenever we can....
:hurts:

And Buffy, you ain't gonna believe this "evangeleesta" moaning about Bush and his fellow dunderheads......

Check it out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-campolo/an-open-letter-to-evangel_b_25695.html

:banghead:

[NMMNG]

10. That is too funny

So the Evangelists are realizing what we knew all along. Their beloved Bushie is an evil liar who had no intention of doing what they wanted, but only used them to get elected. Well boo hoo. They just need to suck it up and be more intelligent with their vote in '08. Just because a guy talks about God all of the time doesn't make him a decent man.


Thanks for the great article. :thumbsup:

[bluesbassman]

11. Well said Buffy.

And if the crawford crybaby truly was a decent man, he wouldn't need to talk about God all the time. His actions speak volumes about where he's coming from.

[NMMNG]

12. Indeed they do

And now that the Evangelicals see via his actions that he's not what he claimed to be, perhaps they'll be smarter at the polls next time. I don't know if they'll vote for a Dem, but I can always hope at least some of them will.

[bluesbassman]

13. My hope is...

that their egos don't get in the way. But perhaps their egos will force them to stay home. Either way, I think I see a small, but steady light at the end of the tunnel.:)

[NMMNG]

14. Likewise n/t

[greyl]

4. Good grief!

There's nothing like devout Christians to keep atheists atheist and agnostics agnostic.

I wonder if there's a link between faith being protected from reason, and supposedly faith-based political propaganda being devoid of fact?

Current Knowledge
In February 2003, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) convened a workshop of over 100
of the world’s leading experts who study pregnancy and breast cancer risk. Workshop
participants reviewed existing population-based, clinical, and animal studies on the relationship
between pregnancy and breast cancer risk, including studies of induced and spontaneous
abortions. They concluded that having an abortion or miscarriage does not increase a woman’s
subsequent risk of developing breast cancer.
http://www.cancer.gov/PDF/FactSheet/fs3_75.pdf

edit: Plus:

Expert Consensus
On February 24-26, 2003 Director of the National Cancer Institute (NCI), Andrew von Eschenbach, convened a workshop to review the research and to make conclusions about the relationship between reproductive factors and breast cancer risk. Over 100 world experts from both the scientific research community and the breast cancer advocacy community, including several NBCC Board members, were invited to participate in the workshop.

After reviewing the evidence, the workshop attendees issued a report stating that there is strong evidence that neither spontaneous nor induced abortion increases the risk of breast cancer. The report's findings were reviewed and unanimously approved by NCI's Board of Scientific Advisors and Board of Scientific Counselors. The full report, a fact sheet, and a list of workshop participants can be found at http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/ere.

Conclusion
NBCC believes that breast cancer policies should be based on quality scientific evidence, and that the assessment of this evidence should not be influenced by political ideology. The highest quality studies show that there is no link between abortion and breast cancer risk. Thus, public policy efforts should be aimed at educating women that abortion will not increase their risk of breast cancer.
http://www.natlbcc.org/bin/index.asp?strid=364&depid=9&btnid=1

[NMMNG]

5. Indeed

I knew the alleged link was bogus, but the fundies love to play it up because it helps them in their agenda against abortion. They don't give a darn about women getting cancer in relation to the HPV vaccine, but when it comes to abortion they suddenly are falling all over themselves about women getting breast cancer. Bloody hypocrites.


In their own article it states that the protective factors come from a woman going through her third trimester of pregnancy. Therefore it's not abortion that creates the breast cancer risk, it is simply not having a child. Accordingly women who've never had a baby and women who've had abortions have an equivalent risk, and women who have children are better protected. The hype against abortion is a red herring.

[bluesbassman]

6. No offense greyl,

but I think "devout" has more to do with being earnest and sincere in ones beliefs than it has to do with with the radical adherence to the bogus positions presented in these articles. I know many people who are "devout Christians", yet are progressive and tolerant in their social views.

I get the point you're making and there's no real beef here, just suggesting that you may want to use a different adjective if your intent is to link to fundies.:hi:

On edit: Didn't mean the articles in your post, but rather from the OP. I too find the lack of reason some people show in their denial of scientific facts to be astonishing.

[greyl]

7. None taken. I just hope you really get my point.

People with "radical adherence to the bogus positions presented in these articles" are devout.
Question the grounds of their devotion, and you will see. ;)


Anticipating your response, I'll remind that Christianity isn't the only religion that professes to be the One Right Way.

Anyone who claims to be a devout Christian must be ignorant of the other religions.
I'm pretty sure I can prove that scientifically. edit 2: Seriously.

edit 1: I'm not sure what you meant by "intending to link to fundies", but I doubt that I was.

[bluesbassman]

15. I do.

And I suppose that one could make a case for these folks being "earnest and sincere" in their "convictions" on the issues presented in the OP. However, as I stated previously, many Christians are devout in their faith, yet are not myopic in the views on science. And as the term "devout (insert religious flavor here)" usually refers to ones faith, IMO your use of the term in this context tends to tar a lot more people with a brush that a relatively small percentage of fundamentalists deserve. You stated "Question the grounds of their devotion, and you will see." True, but their devotion to what? The positions they take on medical science? The inference her is that being a "devout Christian" coincides with having extreme, RW fundamentalists views. I don't believe that this is what you intended.

Regarding this statement;
"Anticipating your response, I'll remind that Christianity isn't the only religion that professes to be the One Right Way." I'm not quite sure why you said that, as the OP was discussing medical science, and your statement seems to be directed theologically.

And as for this statement;
"Anyone who claims to be a devout Christian must be ignorant of the other religions. I'm pretty sure I can prove that scientifically." Well, I think I'll have to go ahead and ask you to prove it as I would really like to see how you arrived at that conclusion.

[greyl]

22. On the scientific proof of ignorance:

First, I should qualify my statement and change "Anyone" to "Most anyone".
I've arrived at that conclusion by
- talking with Christians
- witnessing the behaviour of Christians
- becoming familiar with why ex-Christians become ex-Christians
My proof would consist of a survey of Christians.

Regarding your first paragraph, I think it's a 'when push comes to shove' or crunchtime issue.
The allegiance of a devout religious believer is always somewhat hidden from others view. Faith based actions just aren't as dependable or predictable as actions based on reason.

[bluesbassman]

23. Sorry greyl, that's a personal observation.

Unless of course you have conducted a random survey involving a representative cross section of all "devout Christians" using a standard set of questions designed to determine the basic knowledge of "other religions". If not, then at best you would be able to claim that in your opinion most anyone who claims to be devout is ignorant of other religions.

I would tend to agree with the second part of your last statement, while I would argue that the "allegiance" of a so called devout religious believer would have to by very definition go toward the tenents of the believers faith.

BTW, thanks for the your posts. I always appreciate what you write, and this sub-thread has been most enjoyable.:)

[greyl]

24. Well, sure I observed it personally.

Is there a better way to reach solid conclusions?

I still think it could be proven scientifically. Maybe it has, and I'm not aware of it.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Just a small point...

that Interfaith Stewardship are the bad guys, not the Evangelical Climate Initiative. Well, OK, maybe the ECI aren't entirely the good guys, but we can work with them.

I disagree with most of what any fundie comes up with theologically, but I have worked with quite a few who were tireless in their work for the poor and for proper stewardship of the planet-- they take seriously the Sermon on the Mount and the invocation to care for the earth in the Eden story.

This reaction from the evil twin brothers of the quiet fundies is probably due to the growing environmental movement in their ranks, and another attempt to pressure the National Association of Evangelicals to ignore some serious envirommental problems. Rather than broad brush all fundies, perhaps we can find some way to support the genuinely environmentalist fundies. A major problem is that we tend to dismiss them while they have this view of us as godless whackos.

I read that Cornwall Declaration, and some of it sounds good, but it's dangerously libertarian in its focus-- we should take care of the planet, but don't anyone dare tell us how to do that.

And, yeah, they do have some interesting takes on medicine-- contorting the facts to fit their beliefs.

"My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts."

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Yes, Buffy

I've decided NOT to get the vaccine because I just know I'll run outta here and screw anything with a willing willie!

TG

[DeSwiss]

17. TallahasseeGrannie with walkers built for two... Mmmmm....

j/k :hug: :loveya:

What has always fascinated me, is this "high-moralist's view" which ultimately is nothing more than an obsession with all things - SEX ™.

Gays - SEX ™

Gay Marriage - SEX ™ along with 50% divorce rates proving that they're just the same as everyone else)

Embryonic Stem Cells - frozen SEX ™

Abortion - cheap gas station bathroom condom "oops" SEX ™

Prayer In Schools - (to try and stop SEX ™ because all teenagers think about IS SEX)

Ten Commandments In Courthouses - (to avoid the human propensity toward coveting thy neighbor's ass and/or his wife - SEX ™)

Literal Interpretation of the Bible - to prove that it was Eve of the female SEX ™, and not Adam's fault for all our troubles after all.

Traditional Family Values - June and Ward Cleaver 1950s twin-bed SEX ™(also see: repression of all things "female" - SEX ™, non-white - SEX ™, (possibly kinky SEX ™) and "children" (lord, NO!), "Non-Christian" - erotic & uninhibited SEX ™(definitely kinky SEX!!!)

Its all SEX ™, SEX ™, SEX ™ with these guys!!! They think about SEX ™ more than me! As a matter of fact, they make me think of SEX ™ more than I probably would without them. Sheesh.

Well, on second thought, I guess we can thank them for that at least. :woohoo:


"The main business of religions is to purify, control, and restrain that excessive and exclusive taste for well-being which men acquire in times of equality." - Alexis de Touqueville

I'm banging my head until he's GONE!!!

[NMMNG]

19. It's amazing isn't it?

For people who claim to be morally pure they think about sex a billion times more than I do, and probably more than most gay men. Their minds are no doubt filled with 5% , 30% and 65% . (I have more graphic smilies but since this is R/T I thought it best to use the tamest one.)

[bluesbassman]

20. Thanks for the restraint Buffy.

The mental picture of fundies in the act is more than anyone should have to bear.:puke:

[NMMNG]

21. Indeed

Even the mental picture of them thinking about it is :puke:.

[NMMNG]

18. I always knew there was a "woman of loose virtue" somewhere in there

:P

[DeSwiss]

25. bluesbassman now ya see,

bluesbassman now ya see, you've gone a stirred up those Jerry Falwell nightmares again!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can see it now, more years of therapy.....

Oh yeah, he's gay. No matter how much he protests.....


Jerry Falwell Is Not A Homosexual!!! http://www.jerry-falwell.com/


And Buffy, don't let protocol and reverence for religious/theological piety restrain you.
These folks don't hold back with us, why should we with them? Just let it OUT honey!!! hehehehehe...

See I'm a PK, so I was born irreverent. Its both genetically predetermined and a requirement.

[bluesbassman]

26. Oh great, you had to go and mention Jerry....

Although no matter how sick and depraved I could get, I refuse to allow him to be one of my mental pictures.:banghead:

[NMMNG]

27. Ugh, Jerry Falwell

I've got your Jerry Falwell right here


And Buffy, don't let protocol and reverence for religious/theological piety restrain you.
These folks don't hold back with us, why should we with them? Just let it OUT honey!!! hehehehehe...


My restraint was not for the fundies as there are essentially none here, it was for the religious people of DU. They are not our enemies.

[DeSwiss]

28. Buffy, I agree....

Actually since I recently started logging on here at DU, the atmosphere and discussions from most posters seem almost a miracle of religious tolerence compared to what I've seen up til now. Before, I was a 100% cynic. Now, not so much.... :dilemma:

But I always enjoy your posts! :yourock:

~DeSwiss




I'm banging my head until he's GONE!!!