What the cross means to me

[Joey Liberal]

Growing up, I admired and respected the cross as the symbol of all things good. Jesus died on that cross for us. Now, when I see the cross, it reminds me of hatred and hypocrisy. It reminds me of the Rev. Wildmon's and James Dobson's of the world. It reminds me of Faux News and the Christian Broadcast Network. I no longer respect the cross.

[Monkeyman]

1. They are not the cross they are devils childern

[Joey Liberal]

2. But the cross is their symbol

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. They think it's their symbol. They've tried to steal it,

just like the flag and patriotism.

But they are the about to get their payback this fall.

[lvx35]

11. Its kinda like the flag...

that's been stolen too. But really the lesson of it all is that we need to evaluate things based on actions and substance not symbols. IF a person who acts like Christ called himself a satanist, I don't really give a damn, I will still respect him.

[jwirr]

16. The Devil uses the same symbols with different meanings.

Just as the Nazi took the swastika from tradition and gave it their own meaning.

[pooja]

3. The cross is Hope to me. Hope leads to renewed strength to

live peacefully and show what Love means... the Love that Jesus taught. The cross is like a crossroads. It intersects at a 4 point. It shows the choices one must make in one's own life. God is not coming down to smite. He leaves a choice, a path for you to choose.

[niallmac]

8. With that in mind I would feel so much better if the cross that

sheds an umpty zillion kilowatt glow over Boise shared it's place up
on high atop the hill with any other religious symbol that had a group willing to pay the electric bill.
Until then, the cross on the hill above my town that defies you not to notice it represents the heavy handed
hammer of Christianity demanding that it and it only be recognized as the path
to whatever it is people looking for the path want.

[patrice]

9. Ohhhh, I Like that!

The matrix upon which all of us are suspended between "here" and "not-here" - the crossroads.

Thanks!

[mitchtv]

4. To me it means relentless persecution

It is generally used in some very UN Christian pusuits. Sure, ther are real Christians, and they are starting to speak up, but they have . like Dems, let things get out of control, and their chances of recuperating their losses is slim. If only they listened to Christ.

[CoffeeCat]

6. At the core...

...the cross still means hope and love.

Do not let dysfunctional cretins define your important symbols.

You wouldn't take advice on cooking from these monsters, don't allow them to
influence your most-treasured and very-personal core issues.

[patrice]

7. Maybe you could think of the man Jeshua instead?

Kind of like the best friend you could ever have.

Not "Buddy Jesus", shallow and cliche, odor-less whitebread, but a Real, Honest, Strong, Caring man Friend with a lot of the characteristics you like in a person: humor, energy, courage, thoughtful, playful, hopeful, fun . . . . He really existed and he was really killed by his church and state. I don't know about after that. The tomb was empty afterall; that's indeterminent, which means, to me, that we are to proceed wihtout any assurances to live and love in the manner he showed us with his life.

You're right not to accept the false idols some people are hooked on, even the cross.

BTW, I've ***always*** wondered about that phrase "died on the cross for us". I'm not sure I want much to do with a God that needs/wants that. What do you think it means?

[pooja]

13. Ok.. a way I look at it...

God gave his Son, it was man who didn't accept. They hung him on the cross and threw away his peace, his love, his kindness, his humanity. If you should believe in Him, in His teachings and do as Jesus.. you won't perish.. you will have everlasting peace. Those teachings are the threat to the powerful. If you have peace, love and harmony with one another and amongst the earth, no one person will suffer.

[patrice]

14. I think we're talking about the same guy.

I'm not a conventional Christian, though, in the sense that, as I said, the tomb was empty, i.e. indeterminent, so I'm not sure about any promises. I don't know what it means when people say I "won't perish" and anything "everlasting" nor that "no one persn will suffer".

I think Love is enough.

You have to be truly Free to Love and that's why Jeshua was a threat. He was freeing the people with Love.

[Joey Liberal]

19. Well put patrice, well put indeed n/t

[godhatesrepublicans]

10. That's why a lot of us use the Fish instead.

After all, not all of us think he was just a sacrifice.

[Kailassa]

17. Oh, I thought it meant there was something fishy about the story ...

[lvx35]

12. I always saw it as a symbol of personal sacrifice.

the word "Christian" I heard originally meant "little Christ", and I always thought of the cross as something we ourselves are expected to bear, a symbol of the suffering and personal sacrifice involved in doing the moral thing.

[The Jacobin]

25. I think the crucifix is better for that kind of imagery

The person of Christ on the cross makes the sacrifice being called for clear.

[Kailassa]

15. The swastika is a symbol of good fortune, the wheel of life.

But the Nazis besmirched it so thoroughly that most non-Hindus would not dream
of using it these days.

The Latin cross, (the "Christian" one), was a symbol of torture, but it came to
stand for hope, a symbol of the ultimate selfless sacrifice and transformation.

However the Latin cross has now come full circle.

It in the most beloved symbol of the evil trio, America, Australia and England,
who have combined forces:
- to starve children and deprive them of medical care,
- to attack innocent countries,
- to teach their citizens to fear and hate Muslims,
- to teach Muslims to fear and hate our countries, and
- to make torture publicly acceptable.

We have come full circle. Having been a favourite method of demeaning, tortuous
execution for the imperialist Romans, it is now a favourite symbol of Americans,
as much a part of their identity as the flag.

For the same reasons that I would not display a swastika as a symbol, I will no
longer display the Latin cross. Its meaning has been hijacked, and its symbolism
forever blackened.


This is what the cross now means to me.

[Random_Australian]

18. Strangely, it reminds me of all the people killed for freak all reason

in history... most likely because of the enormous amount of people who were crucified.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

20. Strange

while I know the history associated with the cross, and that it is not all good, yet when I see it in any form I feel a sense of comfort and well-being. When I meditate I often visualize the cross. I have a crucifix over my bed, but not a dead Christ..the resurrected Christ. The dead ones creep me out kind of. My favorite hymn is "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross." (it has an awesome alto line)

Interesting how perspectives are so very different.

[hunter]

21. We've got quite a few crosses in our house.

I hope they don't freak anyone out. There's a pretty little cast metal Celtic cross from Mexico above the door in our guest bedroom. It is what it is, and I won't let the bad guys have it. The meaning it has for me is more important than all the "...Rev. Wildmon's and James Dobson's of the world."

Quiet now, I'll let you in on a secret... if Rev. Wildmon's and James Dobson ever met some of the people who have shared the room with that little cross their heads would explode. Atheists, gay couples, Jews, animists, and worst of all, radical libertarian computer nerds... God Save us all that little metal cross has seen a lot.

[beam me up scottie]

22. GASP!!! You mean it DOESN'T WORK?

The fundies around here wield them like they think we're vampires.

Boy, they had me going... wait until they find out I know about their puny little crosses, muwahahahahahahahahaha !


Great, now I'm having flashbacks of Fright Night.

Which wasn't a bad movie, actually, I quite enjoyed it.

Poor Evil made such a sad and pathetic vampire.

[neebob]

24. I have several winged cherubs in my house

that I bought about 10 years ago, including a totally black one on my bedroom wall. I wouldn't buy them now, but I still like them.

[beam me up scottie]

26. One of my neighbors has a winged cherub statue on his lawn and, get this,

he put a flag in its little clenched fist. :D

I have to get out there and get a picture of that.

[neebob]

27. Hmm ... I would need to see this

to decide if I like winged cherubs holding flags. Definitely do get the picture, please.

[beam me up scottie]

28. It's hideous.

It's something a Vermonter would do for laughs.

Unfortunately, down here, they're dead serious about cherubs and patriotism.

[neebob]

29. So, like when can I expect to see it?

Is it out there now?

[beam me up scottie]

30. It's there all the time.

Unfortunately, it's on the main road heading into town, very busy and there are NO shoulders on the sides of roads around here (something that really pisses off a walker and part time cyclist).

I may be up all night, I might just go for a walk through the fields when the sun comes up, there's also a Dog Beauty Parlor/Offshoot Fundie Church storefront that I've wanted to shoot out that way.

[neebob]

33. I'd like to see the other thing, too.

I'm about to hit the sack, myself. Normally I'm a night owl, but I had an unusual week in which I had to give presentations and be judged and wear my totally fake extraverted charming client-facing persona for four days in a row. Then there was the 24-hour period where I stay all wound up, in which I did business development, and I'm about 3 hours into the inevitable wall-hitting. Now I'll probably dream about presenting to flag-waving cherubs.

Edit: Make that flag-waving cherubs in front of the dog beauty parlor/offshoot fundy storefront.

[salvorhardin]

35. You should do a photo series for NG

"Confused religiosity"

[beam me up scottie]

36. I'd never run out of subjects.

Hmm, don't know if I'd want to shoot anything that could reveal exactly what small town I live in, but I could work around it.

[SPKrazy]

31. Is That "Cherubic Patriotism"?

ya got to get a picture BMUS

a cherub holding a flag!!!

:crazy:

[beam me up scottie]

32. I almost rear-ended the suv in front of me the first time I saw it.

I thought maybe some smart ass did it as a prank (now who would be that diabolical? ) but, no, it's for real.

[SPKrazy]

39. Between Your Photo Essays On The Fundie Whackjobs

and your new "rapture series"

will you remember us when you are rich and famous?

[salvorhardin]

34. Oh, that's priceless!

Yes, you must get a picture. Talk about conflating one's country and one's religion.

[immoderate]

23. A monotheistic religion with many gods.

Something to put in people's faces.

A symbol to litter the landscape. Why not one on every mountain? Sprinkle a few on every field.

--IMM

[hunter]

37. On every field...

http://www.veteransforpeace.org

Day to Day, May 10, 2004 · NPR's Mandalit Del Barco reports on the group Veterans For Peace (VFP), who have been planting crosses in public places to honor U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq. The VFP believes the crosses are a good way to remind others of the soldiers' ultimate sacrifice -- but critics believe the crosses are a political statement, and something the soldiers would not have wanted.



http://news.kazu.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1890786

[neebob]

38. I thought the cross was bad

because the LDS Church considers it a graven image, and Mormons don't do graven images - except for the golden angel Moroni on the tops of temples, the enormous white statue of Jesus in the Salt Lake Temple Visitor's Center, and I don't know what else. Living most of my early life in Utah, the cross was kind of an alien thing to me. I was never much exposed to other religions until I went to work for a stodgy old CPA firm in downtown Denver, where many of my co-workers were Catholic. Then I was all, "Dude, you have a smudge on your forehead," one Wednesday when they returned from lunch.

Anyway I think the Mormon church indoctrinates you in a way that if you grow up in it, you become distrustful and uninterested in other faiths. Other than the graven image thing, I don't remember thinking much about crosses until 1998, at age 37. That's when I met a monstrous waste of human flesh, whose mother happened to be a serious fundy, on the internet. Before I laid eyes on the monstrous waste and understood what it was, it sent me a sterling silver crucifix necklace - and not just a cross, but one with Jesus on it - in the mail.

Here's me, stupidly displaying the necklace (and some other stuff) for the benefit of the monstrous waste:



The monstrous waste turned out to be a park-cruising closet homosexual as well as a monstrous waste, so ... so much for the display. What I remember most about this moment is that almost 20 years after blowing off the Mormon church, I felt sort of naughty putting on this cross. I wore the stupid thing continuously for two years, even after I managed to expel the monstrous waste from my space (which was no easy thing). It took on a sort of life of its own, as in, "Tell me, sad silver Jesus - what went wrong?"

Then one day it just dawned on me, without the help of silver Jesus, and I took the necklace off. It was always poking me anyway.

Now I just feel sort of ambivalent toward crosses in general.

[dattaswamI]

40. Knowledge - Devotion -Misery

Knowledge - Devotion -Misery


Knowledge is like sitting in your house without happiness or worry. Devotion is like travelling to the Lord by bus or train, which gives you happiness only. But service with sacrifice (Karma Yoga) is like travelling by aeroplane to the Lord, which involves full worry and misery only. To reach the Lord, only aeroplane is effective and therefore you hear that a divine aeroplane came down to take a devotee. A bus or train does not come down from heaven. The path is full with thorns. After reaching the goal also, you have to sit on the thorny thrown with thorny crown only. Lord Datta is said to be the ocean of bliss. This means that He is not enjoying the bliss but He makes His devotees to enjoy the bliss as said by Veda (Eshahyeva Anandayati…). The Lord transfers the evil effects of His devotees on to Him and always suffers. By this the devotees are blissful. Therefore, the path and goal are full of misery only and not the bliss.

The spiritual aspirant must always invite troubles and misery in his life, which are the real friends to give the advanced training. But if you analyse carefully, such misery gives you the real eternal bliss. This bliss is eternal because it is associated with misery and is not affected by misery. Thus, the real eternal bliss comes only through the misery in the sacrifice. The bliss that comes in the happiness of selfishness is always temporary. It disappears when the misery attacks it. Therefore, you must try to derive the internal bliss through the misery obtained in the sacrifice. Misery also comes by sins but such misery will not give the eternal bliss.

Therefore, you should try to attain the eternal bliss by sacrificing every thing and every body in this world for the sake of the Lord in human form. Lakshmana, Bharatha, Hanuman etc. did the same. Even Jesus says that unless one sacrifices all the bonds and even is prepared to sacrifice the life by carrying his own cross for the sake of the Lord, He is not pleased with such disciple. The bliss rising from misery and associated with misery can never be effected by misery and therefore remains eternal. A person who is grown up by the poison only as the food cannot be effected by the bite of a serpent.


At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
[e-mail]