Christian Marketing

[doni_georgia]

I posted in another thread about the big business of marketing evangelical Christianity. If we are going to combat the Christian right as a political movement, we have to know what we are up against. The big thing is these people are professionals. This is big business. It's an industry. They have a product to sell and a target audience. Here are some articles for you guys to read.

Target Marketing: Church Uses Research to Build Congregation
http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/mar/27faith.htm

Exploring the Megachurch Phenomenon
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/bookshelf/thumma_article2.html

Forbes on Megachurches
http://www.excelsis.cc/weblog/jr/archives/000754.php

The Growth of a Purpose Driven Church
http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac24.htm


Here's some of these megachurch sites - see what I mean?

http://www.saddleback.com/flash/default.htm

http://www.willowcreek.org/

http://www.northpoint.org/

http://www.sharonbaptist.org/

http://www.communitybiblechurch.com/

[skjpm]

1. Rick Warren is kinda scary, isn't he?

He seems very nice for the first few minutes, and then he slowly, slowly, becomes more and more insane as you listen.

[doni_georgia]

2. All these guys are Christianity's equivalent to car salesmen

People are being duped in the name of God and they don't even realize it. It's the mall mentality - wanting everything under one roof. Build it and they will come. The sheeple are predictable. Consumerism rules in America, so it is not surprising that church has jumped on and mastered the consumerism bandwagon. It's sickening. The Bible speaks of people becoming lovers of self, undisciplined, wanting to have their ears tickled. These evangelicals tell their flocks that it is the liberals doing the ear tickling, but that is not so. Sermons in these megachurches are hour-long ear tickling sessions. The message of Jesus is lost in these churches. There is no wonder that these people proclaim a Jesus barely recognizable to the one described in the Gospels.

[dryan]

11. My 2 cents....

whatever became of the concept of "in my Father's house there are many mansions...".

[coloradodem2005]

3. This is scary in some ways.

I don't know what to say about this. The problem with these churches is that they sound good when you listen to them being called a church of refuge. But I was probably one of a few that saw, in the end that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. The thing that makes me cynical, is that many people, myself included, look for a sanctuary. In the end, I felt trapped by it.

[MatrixEscape]

4. McReligion!

Ah, but the political influence is there, also. Nice, big corporate churches to design and influence a nice, corporate society.

It sounds more beehive-like and less religious than I could have imagined. Having studied religion and mysticism to a great length for many years, it is still clear that large organizations tend to move away from the original message and intent implied. I think of, "The Imitation of Christ", and, "Lives of the Saints" in the Christian context.

This is Borg-like. The article "Exploring the Megachurh Phenomena" gives one insight into the current state of the masses and how they are ripe for manipulation based on needs across the spectrum.

When you are seeking to understand the growing failure of the secular American vision, this is a good area in which to inquire. That, along with the media control and corporate dominance allow for, and encourage, the kind of government we are seeing emerge.

I guess the money changers won. Their tables will not be flipped over this time.

[doni_georgia]

5. I don't think the money changers have won - maybe the battle but not

the war. I believe that truth will come out in the end. This movement has been on the rise for about 30 years, but it will fall. People will buy into image and bling-bling (for lack of a better term) for a while, but what happens when the extrordinary becomes ordinary? People have short attention spans and they get bored easily. The constant surge to keep the sheeple entertained will weigh heavily on the movement until it collapses under its own weight. Things run in cycles. We are in a very hedonistic cycle right now, believe it or not. The people in these movements want to feel good - good about who they are and what they do. Enlightenment will come again. There will be another age of rebels to come. It will happen. We are a cyclical creation. All things run in cycles, this one is a particularly long one. It will be a big fall when things change, but they will.

[coloradodem2005]

6. What is your estimate on how long that will take?

Until things change.

[doni_georgia]

9. I don't know

Honestly, who can predict such things. If the war continues on the track it is now in Iraq, I think you could start to see more and more people disillusioned, and the protest movement will grow. There are many things that could start a change of direction. I think the right wing fanatics are really cocky right now. They think they have a mandate. A lot of people who voted for Bush did so because of terrorism - not because of the right wing's agenda. If the right reads too much into Bush's victory (one that may not really be legitimate anyway) there could be repercussions. I personally believe change is not that far away, but how far away I just can't say.

[doni_georgia]

8. Mac replies - the change will take place

We would never have had the sixties if the fifties hadn't been as long and as awful as they were. A whole generation of Americans - the generation holding the highest reaches of power now - remembers that generation fondly, dedspite McCarthyism, the threat of M.A.D., and the stone wall of intolerant silence across that decade. That will change when the people of the Eisenhower generation begin to die out and be shoved out by the following generation. They will remember that the sixties ultimately failed, but will also know that the fifties failed too, or the sixties would never have happened. I won't prognosticate what will emerge, but it will be a different type of rebellion.
And if you are thinking that current technological prowess will win out, remember the lesson of the robber barons of the late 19th century. If the people will not buy what is sold, the barons themselves must answer to the people in the end, or lose the only source of revenue they have. On the surface it seems preposterous that labor unions would have survived in the face of the power of the richest people in America, yet survive they did. The corporation for which I work INVITED unions in, eighty years ago, knowing that they would be more productive and successful if their people believed in what they do and felt protected from the whims of individuals. It's a big corporation now and there is a lot of muttering today, but the basic principles still hold and the company is one of the best in America to work for (which may not say much but is still significant).
Besides, tomorrow's technology may well render today's ideas obsolete. If we are truly running out of oil, then the oil powers that be will only be able to maintain their sway while other energy sources are more expensive or inconvenient. Eventually someone in the wall will crack and new technology will become more widespread - and more profitable - and everyone will draw some benefit therein. You may notice that we found substitutes for whale oil when we ran out over 150 years ago, for example.
It might seem that the current corporate structures hold too much power over current resources. I would counter that people said the same thing about OPEC in 1974. The OPEC countries were greedy and formed a bloc that squeezed the energy supply. But since they're greedy, they'll sneak out of it if they have a chance to make a windfall for themselves. The half-life of evil does operate to diminish evil power, whether in a business, governmental, or religious setting. Left to itself, these structures only stand as long as insufficient force is brought to bear against them. Competitive pressure will bring them down relatively quickly, and I don't mean greed necessarily. It will not always be fashionable to be stupid and believe everything people tell you. If that were so, America would not exist at all today.

Mac (not Doni!) in Ga

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. I predict that unless we move into a true theocratic dictatorship,

(not outside the realm of possibility :-( ), we'll end up with suburban America as a "burned-over area."

That term was coined to describe parts of the rural northeast that went through the Great Awakening of the mid-eighteenth century and went so hog wild over it that once the fuss died down, they were completely burned out on religion.

I didn't know this until recently, but according to a PBS American Experience documentary on Spiritualism, at the time that Spiritualism was founded (1830s), most people in the Northeast did not attend church, having been "burned out" by the strictness of Puritanism and the Methodist revivals, and the most influential institution in town was usually the Masonic lodge. The U.S. did not become a majority church-attending nation until after the Civil War.

That's completely opposite of the impression that we usually receive from portrayals of that era.

[coloradodem2005]

7. Here is another example of a megachurch for you.

If you haven't heard me talk, this is the church I went to from 1997 to 2000.

www.westbowleschurch.com

[doni_georgia]

10. Looks very much like our old church.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. There's actually a Lutheran megachurch in south Minneapolis with

10,000 members: Mount Olivet. It was founded by a magnetic pastor named Reuben K. Youngdahl in the 1940s or 1950s, and his son is now senior pastor. The elder Youngdahl was one of the first clergy in the area to have a regular television spot, and the parish now broadcasts its services on the radio.

I have attended a few times, and while I can see why people like it, the whole atmosphere gave me the creeps. They follow the standard Lutheran worship service, but it's stripped down, so that you never sing more than two verses of a hymn and all optional parts are omitted. It may be my imagination, but the organist even seems to be playing the sung responses rather quickly. The sermon and everything else are timed down to the minute, so that it ends at 45 minutes past the hour. The ushers direct traffic in the parking lot so that the people leaving one service can get out as the people arriving for the new service come in.

Personally, I felt as if I was being processed.

I think that the members are attracted by the blandness and predictability of all of it.