Unpopular atheism in the US...

[arenean]

Hi all,
Just curious to know what you think the reasons are for atheism not exactly "taking off" in the USA during the 20th century, like it did in Europe, for instance. I've seen some statistics which give the percentage of people who class themselves as atheists in the US (NOT including agnostic) at an amazingly low value of 3% (compared to 30% in the UK). I'm wondering what aspects of the States has kept this level so low; cultural, historical, social, or whatever....
Thanks!

[and-justice-for-all]

1. I think it has more then you think...

...We just dont go around shouting about it, I have started to claim my Atheism and I have 2 frineds that are Atheist. Atheist usually do not brag about it, its our perspective and when we need to say "Im an Atheist" we will. I have one more then one occasion with out any second thought.

They are here among you, trust me.

[lvx35]

2. Perhaps its the tradition of religious freedom.

Maybe it opens doors for atheists, and they realize they could be counted as a Deist, or Buddhist. Maybe they consider it safe to be religious in their own sort of scientific ways, so they get counted as religious...(?) :)

[and-justice-for-all]

5. I am not superstitutious or dogmatic what-so-ever.

[lvx35]

6. Yes, but would you consider yourself a pantheist or Deist?

Would you consider the universe, though dicated by scientific laws to be "alive" or consider a God in the sense of Einstein saying "I want to know the thoughts of God"? I'm thinking that this issue may be a matter of semantics.

[and-justice-for-all]

7. Your taking Einsteins use of the word G-d out of context...

it is meant metaphoricaly, not a religious sence.

..The universe is highly complex, I would say its dictated by scientific laws and it has a pulse. Its had a pulse before our galaxy was established and it will continue on when we are gone.

To fully understand the universe is impossible, it does not mean there is a divine finger behind it. For your brian to even begin to rationalise the universe, it has had to create a figure that it can relate to comprehend, even in the slightest, an environment that it has no physical relationship with. Your brain was never meant to understand the universe, it was formed to deal with the familiar world you have come to know.

I would not consider myself a pantheist or a Deist, I am an Atheist with no superstitious dogma on my back.

[Random_Australian]

10. Atheists safe in America compared to the rest of the world? Oh my

goodness gracious.

I am routinely shocked by what Americans say about atheists, and then you describe other nations as not having traditions of religious freedom?

[intaglio]

3. I think it has a lot to do with how religion is taught

In the UK for example religion is not kept out of school. Many years ago I was taught Religious Education; even then, and I am talking 50's and 60's, it was expected that the varieties of faith would be covered. This meant we could be expected to hear about Islam, Sikhism, Agnosticism, Atheism and Hinduism. The result is that I and others are able have some informed thought on the subject and so make your own decision about your faith. More importantly you were not kept in the dark about other faiths.

I am not certain what the situation in the rest of Europe, is tho' I am aware that Philosophy is a core subject in France.

[and-justice-for-all]

4. Thats logical and rational...

..Here in the states they want it one sided, Jesus-Jesus-jesus..All the time. If it was going to an even amount of time over the facts, rather then there supertitutions then I would say YES to that.

[rock]

8. I believe it's because we don't proselytize

Since we have nothing to sell, we don't have a high profile.

[nickine9]

9. but we do have something to sell...

and that is a rational reality based view of the world that encourages enquiry, debate and a willingness to question dogmatic authoritarianism. I am currently reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins (a barn-storming attempt to debunk the existence of god from lots of different angles) and am just getting into the section about his views of the harm that established religion inflicts on societies. Like a previous poster above I was educated in the UK and religion was on the curriculum but we looked at many faiths and whilst most of the teachers were christians (with a small non-dogmatic "c") they encouraged debate and accepted that at the end of the day it was down to personal choice rather than threats of enternal damnation etc. Nowadays in the UK we are encouraging people to set up "Faith Schools" with a contribution from government funds where the curriculum can be set to conform to religious dogma and of course the idea is attracting a lot of rich fundamentalists (off all persuasions) to set up these schools to turn out children versed in the 19th century view of the world and its supposed realtionship with a fictitious being.

In my view this a at best a very dangerous trend and aetheists should play heir part in stopping it happening (at the moment we are fighting a losing battle and it depresses me immensely).

[shugh514]

11. Link?

Can you provide a link to "some statistics"? It almost sounds like the Fox mantra "some people say.."
Non-belivers rank 3rd worldwide.

Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents
(Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[arenean]

12. US numbers

Hi,
I used the same site (different page though)....

Atheist-Agnostic numbers

[shugh514]

13. Thank you

I hadn't seen these figures.
Thats quite a change after an increase of 110% in U.S. non-believers from 1990-2001.
It may be that the rise in religious rhetoric in our country has made people less likely to admit adherence to "hard-core atheism".

[Orrex]

15. Hi arenean--welcome to DU!

:hi:

[arenean]

27. Nice to be here!

Thanks Orrex! :)

[EvilAL]

14. I just wanna know

if we are gonna be able to say Merry Christmas this year?
hahahahah

[tomcalab]

16. I'm not so sure......

I'm not so sure the numbers indicate the popularity of atheism.

If you go to: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

You will find an explaination of the numbers, "These figures do not necessarily represent the number of people who are identify themselves as "atheists." For example, in Estonia in 2004, 49% of people surveyed said they did not believe in God. At the same time, only 11% of people in the country identified themselves as atheists. "

I guess not beleiving in God is different than saying there is no God. There are many reasons for people to lose hope that there is a God (like the Jews during and after the holocaust), but that is different than knowing that there is no God.

Either way, maybe the low USA numbers is because Americans have more to be thankful for? I'm not sure.

[hunter]

17. Thank you God for Sex, drugs, and rock and roll!

Hey there, maybe you are right...

Now if only we had gay marriage and single payer health care, there would be so much more to be thankful for!

[tomcalab]

20. Who knows...

...maybe your prayers will be answered.

[Random_Australian]

18. Well, except that atheists don't claim to know there is no God, and

don't assert there is no God.

Well, most of us anyway. The explicit atheists will, but us implicit types don't.

[tomcalab]

19. Definitions

From dictionary.com we have:

agnostic
–noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic


atheist 
–noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

[Random_Australian]

21. Yes, and? "disbelieves the existence of supreme things" is what I was

saying us atheists do.

That's not an assertion that they don't exist.

[tomcalab]

23. Back to the Numbers

So..do you have any insight as to why people will say they don't beleive in God four times as often as they will say they are Atheists?

"These figures do not necessarily represent the number of people who are identify themselves as "atheists." For example, in Estonia in 2004, 49% of people surveyed said they did not believe in God. At the same time, only 11% of people in the country identified themselves as atheists. "

Is it because they don't know the definition, or is it that they don't have the conviction, or...?

[Random_Australian]

25. How could it not be the sum of many factors?

The most obvious are how the poll was conducted, the next would be the amount who believe in nothing and thus don't identify as anything, the next would be that I keep hearing americans pushing tht wierd definition of atheist, and I bet there are more.

And of course there is the fact that the poll goes to a Normal:(mu, sigma squared) not just to mu.

[Random_Australian]

29. Also, DU interpreted ": (" as

:(

But I did not see it until after the edit.

Better watch for that. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. My personal theory: disillusionment in Europe after World War One

With so many men killed in such a pointless war, the idea of a caring god started to become less popular. The civilian slaughter and genocide of World War Two accelerated this. The tighter association between state and religion in several European countries will also have hurt Christianity's image because of this. The relatively light American casualties, and the greater separation of church and state, would mean less doubt in America. When communists were then tied to being 'godless' as a political move in the USA, that discouraged people saying they were atheist too.

[tomcalab]

24. Yes!

I would agree that all of your statements were contributors to the spread of atheism in Europe.



Everything you said, and the massive bombing destruction of infrastucture, historical buildings, and neighborhoods. We haven't faced that at home yet.

Thank you for your insight.

[arenean]

26. Good theory

I think I'd go along with that. Especially after the First World War. Here in the UK, the level of casualties were unprecedented, and something that the population were completely unprepared for. It'd be interesting to see if there are any figures on whether church attendances started dropping soon after the end of the war.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Here's one quote from after WW2

Contemporaries noted a falling off in church attendance at the end of the war. It was "indisputable", observed a report on religion in England issued by the Church in 1945, that (quoted in Spinks, 1952, p. 225):

only a small percentage of the nation to-day joins regularly in public worship of any kind.

http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/000207.php

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. Both my inlaws were raised Evangelical Lutherans

in Germany but their lives were so destroyed by the war that they became atheists. But if you asked them, they didn't call themselves "atheists" they would just kinda shrug and say "I don't believe anymore" and that was that. It wasn't much of an issue with them, apparently. I think that they assumed for so long they would die very young, that the rest of their lives was just gravy and they didn't pay much attention to that sort of thing.

[Vidar]

34. Very good point.

[cain_7777]

30. It's the lack of education

[tomcalab]

31. Where?

Where? In Europe, or in the USA?

And, specifically what kind of education?

[immoderate]

32. I went to a lecture by Michael Shermer...

Shermer is a prominent skeptic, for those unfamiliar. I asked him why the prominence of religion in the United States. He said, "Marketing!"

--IMM