Widows sue to get Wiccan symbol on military headstones

[FernBell]

The widows of two combat veterans sued the government Monday, saying their husband's military headstones ought to have Wiccan symbols, especially since the government recognizes the religion on dog tags.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs does not recognize the Wiccan religion and does not allow its religious symbols on veterans' headstones in national cemeteries.

The lawsuit claims the VA has made "excuse after excuse" for more than nine years for not approving the symbol known as a pentacle, which is five-pointed star surrounded by a circle.

The lawsuit argues that constitutional rights of freedom of speech, religion and due process have been violated by the department's not acting on requests to allow the symbol. The lawsuit, filed by the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a religious liberty watchdog group, seeks an order compelling the VA to make a decision.

"After asking the VA on a number of occasions to stop its unfair treatment of Wiccans in the military, we have no alternative but to seek justice in the courts," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based group.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WI_WICCAN_SOLDIER_UTOL-?SITE=CODEN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[patrice]

1. Pagans make some people afraid.

[rhiannon55]

7. Pagans don't make people afraid

Ignorance does.

[patrice]

14. Thanks, you're right!

[kiahzero]

2. Good to know that the VA is wasting government funds

They're going to lose their suit, but that never stopped an agency from fighting anyway.

[UndertheOcean]

3. You know I read the title of this post 3 times ... and each time it looks like ...

"windows sue to get wiccan symbol...."

confused me for a while :)

[patrice]

4. Or "Widows soon to get Wiccan symbol." . . . ?

[VelmaD]

5. A friend who is a pagan and a veteran...

who is a former DUer who still lurks, asked me to pass on his thoughts on this subject. The issue in granting headstone symbols is that the religion has to have a central authority or group of authorities that can say "yes...this is the symbol for our religion". One of the strengths (and weaknesses) of most pagan religions, Wicca included, is that it does not have a centralized authority structure. Which means there's not really anyone for the VA to get that kind of confirmation from. Seems like a bureaucratic boondoggle that while entrapping us in a situation where we can't have our own headstone, even though we're a Federally recognized religion, in order to get our headstone we'd have to adopt our own "Pope" figure to tell the government what we believe...thereby giving up the freedom to believe what we want.

That said, here's my opinion, as long as it isn't a symbol some people find offensive, I see no reason why the deceased shouldn't have whatever symbol they want on their headstone.

[rhiannon55]

6. "as long as it isn't a symbol some people find offensive"

There's the problem: some ignorant people DO find the pentacle offensive, because they equate it with devil worship. Wiccans traditionally position the star point up, while Satanists position it point down. Most people don't recognize the distinction, especially fundamentalist christians, who are going to think it's a satanic symbol no matter what. My avatar is a Wiccan pentacle.

[bryant69]

12. I think you also have to give some of that blame to Hollywood

and other media outlets who have done a much to popularize the idea that pentagram = Satan as the churches. It's practically part of the vocabulary these days - you see a pentagram in a movie or a tv show and you immediately know what you are dealing with.

Bryant

[Withywindle]

18. Who cares if "some people" find it offensive?

Some atheists find the cross offensive. Some anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish bigots find the crescent and star or Star of David offensive. Why should they get a say about what's on anybody else's memorial?

He's a veteran who died for his country. The country he died for supposedly takes freedom of religion seriously. If he had been a Satanist, he should be able to have that on his tombstone too.

[beam me up scottie]

8. I wonder who the atheist pope is.

We're not a religion at all.

The symbol they use for atheists is the American Atheist one:

But we're not all members.

Couldn't they use us as a precedent?

[Goblinmonger]

9. Listen here, missy

If we have an agenda, then we sure as hell must have some kind of central authority. I always thought the Christian baby eating meetings in your basement were the national convention of atheists. That's were we make our plans to bring an end to Christmas...oops, I've said too much, haven't I.

[beam me up scottie]

10. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! ixnay on the opepay.

Sam likes to keep a low profile.

We haven't finished his bulletproof Pope mobile yet.

[kiahzero]

11. I'll be the pope if you want:

http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/popecard.html

[Goblinmonger]

13. Great site

Bookmarked for future use.

[Dob Bole]

15. This is ridiculous, and the government will lose...

There is absolutely no constitutional reason to deny the rights of one religious group.

[Danger Mouse]

16. But...but...

they worship SATAN, right???
Hmmm...interesting story.
Let the widows put whatever they want on the graves. They're grieving for their husbands, and this is the way they want to grieve. JUST LET THEM!!!

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. To quote Wiccan priestess Starhawk...

"To say that Witches are Satanists because neither are Christian and both have magical elements is like saying that swans are really scorpions, because neither are horses and both have tails."

I've always loved that quote.