Religious observance may keep older people healthy

[Phx_Dem]

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - A new study adds to mounting evidence that older people who regularly attend religious services are healthier than those who don't.

Among 1,174 highly functioning men and women in their 70s, those who went to a church, synagogue or mosque at least once a week had a significantly slower decline in their lung function over the following years than their peers who didn't go to services regularly, Dr. Joanna Maselko, now at Temple University in Philadelphia, and her colleagues report.

Maselko, who conducted the study while at the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, used peak expiratory flow rate (PEFR), which measures the volume of air a person is able to expel from the lungs, to gauge lung function in the study participants.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061115/hl_nm/religious_healthy_dc_1

[RoBear]

1. My mind reels with sarcastic replies...

Nah, too easy!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. I'm not above "too easy," so...

...ahem. No thanks. I value mental health more than physical health.

[aquart]

2. People who regularly attend services have massive social support

Thru their religious organization. There is always a way for them to feel useful and needed.

[Phx_Dem]

5. That is what the study authors suggest

that elderly who attend regular religious services have a better social support network.

[twilight_sailing]

3. "Among 1,174 highly functioning men and women in their 70s,"

Oh, good. I don't have to go for another 20 years, thank God.

[RoBear]

4. hehehe

n/t

[Warpy]

6. It's not the building, the sermon, or the book that does it.

It's the social support that prevents the isolation that arrives as friends and family die off.

Social isolation kills.

[bananas]

11. More likely the singing

They're measuring lung function, after all.

[LiberalFighter]

40. Won't do a wallflower like me any good

I would find this study to be flawed.

How could less than 10 minutes interaction with others lasting less than a minute each person help?

I think it might be the effort of attending service. Being involved in an activity that is more than just sitting around the house doing nothing.

Did they do a study on those that volunteer in their community?

[cosmik debris]

7. It is called Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

The article implies a cause and effect relationship, but gives no evidence to support the implication.

[Phx_Dem]

8. So what is this?

"Among 1,174 highly functioning men and women in their 70s, those who went to a church, synagogue or mosque at least once a week had a significantly slower decline in their lung function over the following years than their peers who didn't go to services regularly, Dr. Joanna Maselko, now at Temple University in Philadelphia, and her colleagues report."

"At the study's outset, in 1988, 65 percent of female participants and 51 percent of men reported attending religious services regularly. Over the follow-up period, which averaged 4.6 years, PEFR declined twice as much in the people who didn't attend church services regularly compared with those who did."

[cosmik debris]

9. The way I read it

That proves that having better lung function causes people to go to church.

Or maybe having poor lung function causes people to stay home.

There is no indication that going to church causes better lung function. But the implication is clear.

Do you think there was a control group? I doubt it. Do you think they compared church goers to golfers or other groups with common interests and activities? I doubt it.

The only valid conclusion from this study is that one group had better lung function than the other. There was no evidence presented to indicate why that is the case.

[Phx_Dem]

10. It sounds like they did a longitudinal study

but the article does not well define what the different levels were for the independent variables. Control groups are not necessarily relevant. Without more info, we can't determine causality, though the authors are certainly asserting a correlation between lung functioning and religious observance.

[cosmik debris]

12. They proved correlation

They did NOT prove causation. And they failed to show the significance of the data by not providing a baseline by which to judge the data. But they did not hesitate to imply causation and significance.

The very fact that the researcher used church attendance as a variable shows some bias regarding religion. It also suggests that a certain outcome was the desired result of the research. It makes me wonder what would have happened to this data if the opposite results had shown up.

[TRYPHO]

15. AWESOME!

You, Sir, would have made an awesome clinical pharmacist. Evidence Based thinking rules.

Cosmic Debris wrote:
They did NOT prove causation. And they failed to show the significance of the data by not providing a baseline by which to judge the data. But they did not hesitate to imply causation and significance.

Shit, thats all pharmacy is, looking at stuff and saying "that aint right".

Better says something about Jesus to make it topical now, er, did he JOG twice a week or was that another Greek mis-translation and actually he just self-flaggelated the daemons away twice weekly.

And oh look, there's a Unicorn, what's that you say? Atheists can't see you. Yes, I know its sad.

TRYPHO <--- Runs, ducks, puts on magic armour and prepares to be flamed :-))

[cosmik debris]

16. Did you count the number of posters

Who blithely accepted the implication without questioning?

And by the way, they won't let me near the pharmacy except for the court ordered meds.:)

[bananas]

17. Off-topic question for you

I looked in your profile, it says you are a "ley historian", was that a typo or are you an historian of ley lines?

[TRYPHO]

18. Lay Ley

Bugger'n blast.

Thanks for that - will see if I can correct it.

TRYPHO

[SidDithers]

42. Welcome to DU...

we can always use another rational voice 'round these parts.

Sid

[Random_Australian]

25. Nah, I say that this article is doing correlation/causation rather than

post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Think about it - in post hoc the flaw comes from not doing a statistical analysis of the results when a 'study' is done, (This is after all why it is also known as the "pragmatic fallacy") rather than here where they find a correlation between two variables.

Though you could argue that they used post hoc ergo propter hoc to order the two variables. :)

Caution! Nerd Alert! Do not read the preceding sentences!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. I'm a very large lady who has mobility issues

and going to church for me is a good work out. Getting all dressed up, in and out of the car, into the church, up and down in the pew, kneeling, singing, up for Communion and then all that schmoozing after wards. I can see how it would help the elderly stay active and healthier. I'm not all that elderly, but my weight issues put me in that category in some ways.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. It's the social support network and the ways of feeling useful

I've met some amazing older people in my years as a church person. Instead of sitting around and moaning about being old and useless, older people can get involved in all sorts of constructive activities, such as making quilts for earthquake survivors in Pakistan or cooking for the homeless or mentoring people who are trying to get off the streets or even, as was true with a wheelchair-bound 102-year-old I knew in Portland, acting as coordinator of the phone tree that informed parishioners of important events.

They're splendid role models for how to be old.

[Evoman]

19. To me, this study proves that god hates elderly religious folk.

Obviously god doesn't want to hang with boring old people. He lets them live longer, so that he can spend less time with them in heaven.

Thats also why rock musicians die early....god likes rock music.

[bananas]

20. I don't believe in "air guitars"

I've never seen an air guitar,
and when people say they are playing an air guitar,
it can be perfectly explained by the music on the stereo.

I am an a-air-guitarist,
I don't deny that air guitars might exist,
but I have seen no proof that they do!

[charlie]

22. You'll see one day

when your faith in air guitars is strong. To hasten that day, I have a mint pre-CBS Stratocaster with a nice transparent, weightless tweed case I'm willing to part with for a mere $50,000. Imagine the joy this fine specimen will bring when your faith is rewarded! I'll also guarantee it'll never trouble you with doubt by manifesting materially or I'll happily refund your money.

[bananas]

23. How do I tune it?

You got an invisible tuning fork for sale?

[charlie]

24. With fully ripened faith

comes perfect pitch, of course. It's a full meal deal. If you're anxious to get started though, a dog whistle will do in a pinch.

[bananas]

21. Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding

Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.

Me and my -ah- mother and father - and a
grandmother and a grandfather - were driving through
the desert, at dawn, and a truck load of Indian
workers had either hit another car, or just - I don't
know what happened - but there were Indians scattered
all over the highway, bleeding to death.

So the car pulls up and stops. That was the first time
I tasted fear. I musta' been about four - like a child is
like a flower, his head is just floating in the
breeze, man.

The reaction I get now thinking about it, looking
back - is that the souls of the ghosts of those dead
Indians...maybe one or two of 'em...were just
running around freaking out, and just leaped into my
soul. And they're still in there.

Indian, Indian what did you die for?
Indian says, nothing at all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Has this thread been hijacked by Dadaists?

:shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

28. Why not? The whole RELIGION/THEOLOGY forum has been hijacked by

atheists, agnostics, etc. Maybe we religious DUers should be posting in the forum for atheists and agnostics. . .

:shrug:

[Evoman]

29. Um...there is no forum for atheists and agnostics.

There is just a group. There is also a group for christians and progressive people of faith, so you may be more comfortable there (although there are about 2 posts a month in that group, I think).

I also prefer "keep alive" to hijack. As in..."The whole religion/theology forum has been KEPT ALIVE by atheists, agnostics, etc"

[DemBones DemBones]

30. Ah, I thought it was a forum, not a group. Why don't you ask

for a forum?

[Evoman]

31. Because this forum does just fine.

Although I have considered asking the Skinner if he could change this forum to Religion/Theology/Atheism or something along those lines so that religious DUers would stop trying to assume we don't belong here. I assure you..if we were not allowed here, or stopped coming, this forum would completely dry up.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. No, religious DUers rarely use this forum because it was

hijacked by agnostics and atheists from the very beginning -- the very same atheists and agnostics who would scream their heads off if we tried to discuss theology in their group. This forum was intended for discussing religion and theology, not for a constant barrage of anti-religious posts.

[Evoman]

37. I will repeat...without us, this forum would die.

Many religious DUers have tried (rarely) to start the kind of posts you'd like, but they seldom get any attention. I mean..what sort of inter-religious dialogue are you looking for? Can you give me some examples of some topics (don't be vague) that you would like to discuss.

As to the atheists leaving this forum....I'm going to ask you plain out...and please consider your response carefully because I will take it into consideration.

Do you want me to leave this forum and never post here again?

[NMMNG]

32. Oh look, it's the weekly (or so) "atheists get out" post

What would we do without these? :sarcasm:

[DemBones DemBones]

34. This is the RELIGION/THEOLOGY forum, not the ATTACK RELIGION forum.

There is a group agnostics and atheists so why don't you go there to bash religion? You are in our space here when you have one of your own. If you want a forum in addition to a group, propose one.

[cosmik debris]

35. This ain't your space

There is a group for Christians and a group for atheists and there is a FORUM for religion and theology. But this forum is not just for pro religious thought.

Both sides are welcome here and if you don't like hearing the voice of opposition you may retire to your group to discuss your topics without opposition.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Oh she know all about groups, cosmik.

She posts in the religious ones.

Apparently that isn't enough for her, though.

[cyborg_jim]

36. WAAAH WAAAH

Boo-fucking-hoo.

That is all.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Oh, yay, DemBones is back! And you brought your bag of issues with you!

Does Allen know?

And as far as "bashing" goes, how about you take your own advice?:

"if you CHOOSE to debate with people about religion, you really can't complain about what they say."

[NMMNG]

41. This forum is for the discussion of Religion/Theology

And criticism of Religion/Theology is included in discussion of it. The notion that religious beliefs should be above examination and critique is not only silly but dangerous. Furthermore, the religious people here spend plenty of time criticizing atheists and atheism so don't try to play innocent.