Home Run Derby Winners - juiced or not juiced?

[El Supremo]

I count 6 of the past derby winners on the Mitchell Report

2008 Justin Morneau
2007 Vladimir Guerrero
2006 Ryan Howard
2005 Bobby Abreu
2004 Miguel Tejada *
2003 Garret Anderson
2002 Jason Giambi *
2001 Luis Gonzalez
2000 Sammy Sosa *
1999 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1998 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1997 Tino Martinez
1996 Barry Bonds *
1995 Frank Thomas
1994 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1993 Juan González *
1992 Mark McGwire *
1991 Cal Ripken, Jr.
1990 Ryne Sandberg
1989 Eric Davis
1988 (Canceled due to rain)
1987 Andre Dawson
1986 Wally Joyner & Darryl Strawberry
1985 Dave Parker

[trumad]

1. I agree with your picks

2008 Justin Morneau
2007 Vladimir Guerrero
2006 Ryan Howard
2005 Bobby Abreu
2004 Miguel Tejada * Juiced
2003 Garret Anderson
2002 Jason Giambi * Juiced
2001 Luis Gonzalez
2000 Sammy Sosa * Juiced
1999 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1998 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1997 Tino Martinez
1996 Barry Bonds * Double Juiced
1995 Frank Thomas
1994 Ken Griffey, Jr.
1993 Juan González * Juiced
1992 Mark McGwire * Juiced
1991 Cal Ripken, Jr.
1990 Ryne Sandberg
1989 Eric Davis
1988 (Canceled due to rain)
1987 Andre Dawson
1986 Wally Joyner & Darryl Strawberry Drugged
1985 Dave Parker

[cboy4]

2. How was Bonds on the Mitchell Report?

That sloppy document doesn't indicate Bonds violated a single baseball rule so you can take away the asterisk from 1996.

By the way, even some of the most hard core Barry haters say he was not juicing in 1996.

You haters are too much. No wonder you lost in federal court.

[El Supremo]

3. I tried to count how many times Barroid was mentioned, but gave up.

Here, you count em:

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

[cboy4]

5. Right and how many times did he test positive for steroids, and how many

times was he suspended from baseball for steroid use?

They can mention his name all they want, but it's nothing but speculation .. which doesn't hold up in court.

It's why your side lost its case.

[TZ]

18. Was there testing when he played? No.

So how could he be suspended for something of which there was no testing? :crazy:

[cboy4]

19. So that's Barry's fault? That's like saying someone is guilty of robbing a

business that wasn't in existence at the time.

[TZ]

23. But that doesn't clear him of suspicion

Just the same as McGwire, Sosa, et al, all of whom "never tested positive". This argument is so flawed....at least TRY to come up with something I can't punch holes through kay? :eyes:

[cboy4]

25. See Post #24

[hughee99]

20. McGwire and Gonzalez agree

as those who never tested positive nor were suspended. For that matter, I don't recall that Giambi or Tejada ever failed a test or were suspended for steroids either. Hell, even Sosa (like Bonds) is only alleged to have failed a drug test.

[cboy4]

21. Yes but Giambi, Tejada and McGwire were all mentioned by

Canseco.

Not Barry.

[hughee99]

22. So let me get this straight...

Having a personal trainer who plead guilty to distributing steroids, and admitting to using substances from him that match the description of known designer steroids is NOT sufficient circumstantial evidence to consider someone a steroid user, but being mentioned by Canseco is?

BTW, as far as I can tell, Canseco only said he had discussed steroids with Tejada and that he though Tejada was using. I believe even he admitted he had no first hand knowledge of this.

Personally, I think they were all users.

[cboy4]

24. Yes, well you may think they were all users, but ...

look at Bonds' stats during his first year with the Giant in 1993:

STAGGERING!

.336, 46HR, 123RBI

Take a look at all of his numbers around that time.

It was clear even back during his "skinny" days that he was going to be unreal.

[hughee99]

27. So now we're using the "his stats were good all along" defense

I think Rafael Palmiero ruined that one for all the users. Bonds put up excellent numbers for a 29 year old, but like most professional baseball players, he didn't hit his peak until is late 30's. I don't think that dog will hunt, either.

[TZ]

28. McGwire's stats were pretty good his first year in the league too.

Are you really gonna tell me you think McGwire wasn't juicing?

[Bill219]

6. 103

[cboy4]

7. So what? How does this show beyond a reasonable doubt that

Bonds knowingly used steroids?

***CRICKETS***

[madinmaryland]

8. You really are fucking dense. Too many roids making your head swell too?

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Reasonable Doubt?

What does criminal law have to do with this?

This is closer to civil litigation in that a preponderance of the evidence is enough to find against a defendant.

Come on, cboy. You know this.
GAC

[cboy4]

10. Yes, I realize that you only have to tip the scales in a civil case.

But I think the accusations are too big in this situation (as in Bonds being sent to prison for perjury, being kept out of the Hall of Fame, having his reputation tarnished as a cheater, etc.,) for the quantum of evidence to fall under the less stringent evidentiary standard of preponderance.

[trumad]

11. Ahh the charter member of the "Dumb Motherfuckers" club speaks...

[cboy4]

13. It's not surprising my legal presentation sailed right over that bone dry

head of yours.

[trumad]

16. "having his reputation tarnished as a cheater",

too funny---- what---this case will do that?

[cboy4]

17. Why do I have to break everything down to you like I'm communicating

with an orangutan?

[trumad]

29. Great comeback---typical when you have nothing...

[trotsky]

12. BARROID?!?!?

ROFLMFAO!!!!! Why haven't I heard that before??!? :rofl:

[Kingofalldems]

4. Who was the biggest juicer on that list?

I say it was the guy whose head became enormous.

[cboy4]

14. No bigger than your enormously baseless allegations.

:thumbsdown:

[Capt. America]

15. Frank Thomas ..juiced.

[El Supremo]

26. No, I don't think so.

His body didn't change - he was always huge. He was all for testing. And he volunteered to be interviewed for the Mitchell Report - the only active player to do so.

If anything, he got really screwed out of more fame by the real juicers.