Add Big Papi to the cheater list.

[trumad]

So the Heart of Boston's lineup during the World Series was Steroid infested?

Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, the sluggers who propelled the Boston Red Sox to end an 86-year World Series championship drought and to capture another title three years later, were among the roughly 100 Major League Baseball players to test positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the results.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html

[joeybee12]

1. Why this is being dribbled out, one by one...why not just do the whole list?

This way it looks like people are out to get certain people...this does not surprise me, and since there are still almost 100 names left, yeah, the heart of quite a few teams' line-up was roid-infested.

[MaineDem]

40. Because the list is under seal

Whomever is leaking it is doing so without authorization.

[joeybee12]

42. No, they're a vengance factor...it started with A-Hole because the SI reporter was

writing a book about him...whoever is leaking is selectively leaking...why these names and not others?

[El Supremo]

2. Saw that one coming.

Shit!

[JonLP24]

3. Beat me to it

Breaking on Sportscenter right now.

[JonLP24]

4. It kind of puts some perspective on the so-called curse

They needed 'roids to break the curse.

[flvegan]

5. Hard to take anything as factual

from lawyers in violation of a court order published in a Yankees rag. Could be true, I suppose.

[joeybee12]

7. I don't disbelieve it...I just wonder why a Yankees rag went after these

two...until you release the entire list, dribbling out like this is simply payback by someoen who doesn't like someone.

[DaveinMD]

9. you do know

that the NY Times has an ownership stake in the Red Sox.

[joeybee12]

12. True, but I still don't trust the motive...release all the names and then

we'll talk.

[flvegan]

13. That they're trying to sell.

The Boston Globe would probably own a chunk of the Skanks if they thought it would make them money.

[DaveinMD]

16. trying to sell to save the newspaper

they aren't likely to report a story that could devalue what they are tying to sell. And they aren't a Yankee rag as you say.

[flvegan]

18. Indeed.

[madinmaryland]

11. The New York Times is a rag?

Yeah right.

[joeybee12]

14. How quickly we forget...the paper that helped hound Clinton and then there

was that judith Something who made up things leading up to the illegal Iraq invasion that they just blithely put on the front page...it's been a rag for quite some time.

[inthebrain]

24. Other sources are now backing it up

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/report_ortiz_ra.html

[joeybee12]

27. Please read my posts...I believe it's probably true...I'd just like to know how the SELECTIVE

leaking of names...release them all.

[inthebrain]

29. I guess this is how they are choosing to do it

I don't know why.

I imagine Ryan Howard is on that list as well.

[joeybee12]

37. Because it makes more for more news...103 individual stories covered non-stop on ESPN...

...as opposed to 1 big one, once, if they released the entire list.

[Yavin4]

31. Come on joey

You didn't attack the Times when they broke the story about Arod or Sammy Sosa.

[joeybee12]

41. Uh, they weren't the ones who broke those stories...

...SI broke A-Hole, ESPN broke Sammy Sosa...nice try, though.

[Yavin4]

46. Wrong. The Times Broke The Sosa Story

and excuse me, but the SI writer that broke the Arod story use to work for the Times, so I got a little confused there.

Either way, the Red Sox are steroid cheaters like all other teams.

You owe cboy, Upton, and all Giants fans apologies for their defense of Bonds.

[joeybee12]

51. Um, have I been defending Ortiz here?

This doesn't surprise me, largely because when the A-Hole story broke they mentioned his trainer from the Domincan Republic who also worked with Papi...all the domincan players are connected to that guy somehow and there's gonna be more names...look at it this way, a reporter wants to write a book on A-Hole, his name is leaked, Sosa retires and says he will calmly wait for his call to be inducted to the HOF, a little later, his name is leaked...not sure what Papi did to get his name leaked, but Manny was being his usual arrogant asshole self and saying what he did wasn't so bad, his name is leaked...it's about payback.

[wilt the stilt]

6. The reality is that

once one person did it they almost all had to do it. In a competitive sport it is the rare individual that would let someone get a leg up on them. It is only the guys like Jeter who didn't base his game on power that was able to resist.

When baseball went overboard and started to just showcase longball then this happened. It is almost like this happened as the African American player involvement declined.

When we lost the likes of Lou Brock, Ricky Henderson, Tim Raines we saw the infusion of steroids. The American league style of baseball took over and the negro league style of baseball declined.

[DaveinMD]

8. people need

to stop acting like the list is the end all be all. There are tons of juicers not on the list. These are just the people caught after being told when the test was going to take place.

[madinmaryland]

10. Ironic that the artical was written by Mike Schmidt!

I think every team in the league had more than a few roiders, except for maybe Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Montreal.

[BOSSHOG]

34. I don't think

that it is THE Mike Schmidt you think it is. There is a Mike Schmidt writer for the Times, and he isn't the greatest home run hitter and greatest third baseman to ever play the game.

One week to the Hall of Fame Classic.

[madinmaryland]

36. It's not the Phillies Mike Schmidt that wrote the artical. I just thought

it was ironic, plus it grabbed your attention. Wasn't Schmidt into Greenies??

[BOSSHOG]

39. He liked strong coffee

I got two big posters of Michael Jack in my garage plus an awesome plaque. Not that I think the guy is any good or anything. Hopefully I can put another Phillie Pennant in my furnished Dog House around the first of November.

Looks like the Michigan transfer Mallet is going to start for the Hogs.

[inthebrain]

15. Big Papi was talkin all sorts a shit about roiders when ARod got busted

That's funny.

He was one of the guys I suspected. He had the jowels and rough complexion that comes with roid use.

[DaveinMD]

17. not to mention

the precipitous decline after testing.

[inthebrain]

This was in 2003

I think last season a lot of people were saying that Papi had lost a bit on his swing.

[DaveinMD]

20. granted

But full testing and penalties weren't instituted until later.

[joeybee12]

21. Hmm...I remember him being very quiet...

...as were most of them...they probably knew they were guilty and as I've said, this dribbling seems like payback.

[inthebrain]

22. He wasn't quiet when ARod got busted

He was VERY vocal about it.

[joeybee12]

28. I do not recall that at all...I don't recall anyone being vocal becase

they're all probably scared...say the wrong thing and someone will get back at you and release your name.

[JonLP24]

30. First hit on google:Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- David Ortiz wants players who test positive for steroids to be suspended from baseball for a year instead of the current 50-game penalty.

Taking players to court, though, for cases involving use of the substances before players were subject to penalty is not the way to clean up the game, the Boston Red Sox designated hitter said Monday.

"I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody," he said. "You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that's about it."

And if a player tests positive for steroids?

"Ban 'em for the whole year," the slugger said.

The current penalties are a 50-game suspension for a player who tests positive once, 100 games for a second positive test for the same player and a lifetime ban for a third positive test, though a player can seek to return after two years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153

[joeybee12]

33. I inferred that people meant Papi was ragging on A-Hole, like I told

you so, specifically referring to A-Hole and the use...these are general comments about steroid use, not about a patricular person, and since the posts were from Skankee fans, you can see how i could infer that, can't you?

[inthebrain]

38. Who's the Yankees fan you are talking about?

[joeybee12]

43. DaveinMD...who hasn't posted in a while...

...but this is apaprently good news for him.

[DaveinMD]

44. I've posted several times this week

its good news in the sense that we can put the sanctimony that the Red Sox were completely clean when it was clearly not true. Its time for everyone to come to grips that over half of the league was juicing. That goes back to the early 90s. Everyone is tainted. To pretend otherwise is silly.

[joeybee12]

47. I agree with you on that...103 players were not all on the same team...

...there's enough blame to go around, but the guilty party really is Selig who allowed this to happen.

[DaveinMD]

50. completely agree

Selig is a major fraud.

[madinmaryland]

59. What I want to see is the distribution of the players caught by team.

Right now, the confirmed cases are in Baltimore, Texas, New York, Boston, and Los Angeles (via Manny). Is it a handful of teams that are having these issues or is it really league-wide?

[inthebrain]

66. The Mets thus far have been pretty clean

The only player on the list that I can think of was David Segui. He didn't put up big numbers here.

Boston I wouldn't be surprised given that one of the major distributors was a MA state trooper.

I'm sure there are guys in that list that have played for the Mets. OTOH, we really never had a big strike out pitcher here or HR hitter if you compare to the roiders. Piazza was a big HR guy but he seemed to follow a natural arc throughout his career. He'd probably be the most suspect but I doubt he did.

[Yavin4]

49. Well Said Dave

It was probably more than half the league, and a lot of minor leaguers as well.

[inthebrain]

52. Half the league?

That's not true.

104 players tested positive. About five of those were on the Yankees. Given that their 2000 WS series victory came against the Mets, I think there is just cause for Mets fans to be a little upset about that. Especially after Clemens roid rage on the feild against Piazza twice.

Fuckers!!!!

Yankees on that 2000 team that tested positive?

Pettite
Clemens
Knoblauch

[DaveinMD]

53. yes

half the league. If you think the only people who were using were the people on that list I have a bridge to sell you. As an example, Clemens was on that list. He was just in the Mitchell report.

[inthebrain]

55. Absence of evidence is not evidence

and just because 103 players failed the drug testing that doesn't mean ONLY 103 ball players took the test. Last I read about this it was about 500 of them. That's less than a 1/3 that failed.

[DaveinMD]

56. only the stupid got caught

players were told exactly when the test would be. The fact that so many got caught under those circumstances is quite amazing.

[inthebrain]

57. Evidence?

Thus far you justification used in this are almost the same used for the existence of Big Foot, the Lochness Monster, 9/11 controlled demolitions and Roswell.

You haven't a shred of positive evidence to back your claim.

[DaveinMD]

58. the evidence

is born out in the massive home run numbers league wide compared to what has occurred since testing and penalties were instituted. Not to mention and larger number of players who performed well far beyond what historically would have been their peak seasons. You want to bury your head in the sand be my guest.

[inthebrain]

64. Specualation is not evidence either

by that would you be so easy to convict Roger Maris of being a juicer?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marisro01.shtml?redir

Guys have up years and down years. That's the nature of baseball.

Yeah, there are guys in the league who's numbers are enhanced by steroids. Then there are also plenty of guys in the league that have their normal peaks and vallies throughout their careers.

The only evidence you really have is a drug test that conclusive. The rest is all speculation.

[madinmaryland]

45. DaveinMD is a Skankees fan?

[DaveinMD]

54. I am

Yankees and football Giants. Grew up in NY. Moved to Maryland after going to college in DC.

[inthebrain]

32. Ortiz wants season-long ban

Ortiz wants season-long ban

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- David Ortiz wants players who test positive for steroids to be suspended from baseball for a year instead of the current 50-game penalty.

Taking players to court, though, for cases involving use of the substances before players were subject to penalty is not the way to clean up the game, the Boston Red Sox designated hitter said Monday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153

[WilliamPitt]

19. Boston explodes

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/report_ortiz_ra.html

:(

[Forkboy]

23. I mentioned my suspicions on this here a few months back.

Let's just say this news isn't shocking to me.

[madinmaryland]

25. This is going to be really popular over the next few years...

Too bad our little friend isn't around. NOT!

[DaveinMD]

26. this is what Ortiz once said

"I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody," he said. "You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that's about it."

And if a player tests positive for steroids?

"Ban 'em for the whole year," the slugger said.

[trumad]

35. I guess he thought he was bullet proof.

He has been opinionated on performance-enhancing drug use in the past. While discussing the subject during spring training in February after he was linked to Angel Presinal, a Dominican trainer banned from MLB clubhouses on the suspicion that he supplied steroids to his clients, he said players should be banned for the year if they test positive. Currently, the ban for a first-time offender is 50 games.

"I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody.You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that's about it."

He added, "I think you clean up the game by the testing. I know that if I test positive by using any kind of substance, I know that I'm going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans and everybody, and I don't want to be facing that situation.

"So what would I do? I won't use it, and I'm pretty sure that everybody is on the same page," he said.

[Yavin4]

48. Papi Went From Being a Bench Player That The Twins Cut

To being one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game. Folks, that simply does not happen without some artificial help.

[MaineDem]

60. Clubhouse is closed to the press right now after Sox win

It's being said that Papi is addressing the club.

He's been saying he never used. Big disappointment if that's proven to be a lie.

[Forkboy]

61. Everyone on that list should just fess up now, because it'll all come out sooner or later anyways.

Denying it and then being proven a liar is adding one stupid move on top of another.

[MaineDem]

62. I totally agree!

HOFer Jim Rice just said that MLB should release the 2003 list and move on.

[DaveinMD]

63. that further promotes

the idea that the players on the list are the only users. That is really silly.

[Forkboy]

65. I agree, but what else can you do?

Without evidence you can only guess who used them and who didn't. And without some kind of evidence it's really not fair to the players that didn't use them. I don't know what else MLB can do besides releasing that full list without any other kind of evidence against other players. If more evidence comes to light later on they can deal with it on a case by case basis.

[DaveinMD]

67. if they release that listi

they will see a lawsuit of epic proportions. Ortiz and A-Rod should join to do a lawsuit. Their rights were massively violated.

[Forkboy]

68. This is true.

[inthebrain]

69. I wonder if it has something to do with those that bet on the game?

I guess it is a little strange the way they are slowly releasing the names.

[Onceuponalife]

70. So now are we going to hear all the self-righteous Beantown fans

stop bragging that their players didn't need PEDs to win the WS?

Yeah, didn't think so.