Boston RedSox World Champions in 2004* and 2007*

[madinmaryland]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/report_ortiz_ra.html



Roid Ragers:

[joeybee12]

1. It was 2003...nice try, though. n/t

[inthebrain]

2. And a year later they won the WS

[DaveinMD]

3. yeah

that's the only time he was using. I'm sure you completely believed A-Rod that he only used in Texas.

[joeybee12]

4. I doubt it...

...but my point is that all the names need to come out...103 names covers a lot of teams...I'm sure we can put asteriks to pretty much every team for the past 10 years or more if we go by these rules.

[DaveinMD]

8. more than half the players

in the league for the last 20 years have been juicing. The 103 names are not the only players. People need to stop acting like they were.

[madinmaryland]

9. Except for maybe Pittsburgh & Montreal/DC, and maybe KC.

Let's face it, Freddy Sanchez and Jack Wilson don't look like Roid Ragers.

[Forkboy]

15. You're fooling yourself.

[madinmaryland]

18. You're probably right about those teams.

Given that 103 tested positive, there were probably many more not caught who were juicing.

[Forkboy]

20. It doesn't even have to be a big name player.

What if it was a mediocre .220 hitter who did them and became a solid .280 hitter? Every team had someone doing them.

[El Supremo]

5. deleted

never mind

[joeybee12]

6. I meant the tests were done in 2003...n/t

[inthebrain]

7. That was a year after testing postive

and in 2003 MLB had no policey to reprimand these guys either.

[madinmaryland]

11. Interestingly they won the WS the next year and then three years later.

Hmmm. Big Papi then becomes extremely injury prone a year after the last WS.

:think:

[Forkboy]

10. I've said before that I only blame the teams if they knew and did nothing.

I don't blame SF for Bonds, the Cards for McQwire, the Yankees/Rangers for A-Roid, the Cubs for Sosa, etc. If evidence comes out that any of these teams knew and turned a blind eye (and I suspect that's possible in some of these situations), I'll reassess my stance. Until then, it's the players, and the players only, that deserve an asterisk and scorn.

Going after the teams is just going to make everyone look stupid when it turns out they have players who are guilty on their teams (and don't kid yourself, every single team in the League has or had players doing roids, including your Pirates).

[DaveinMD]

12. they would have had to be blind

to no know what was going on. Everyone knew it.

[Forkboy]

Probably.

You would think the trainers would know, at the least. But I'll wait for evidence of that before passing that judgment.

[madinmaryland]

16. Comeon, Forkboy, that is such a ****4 copout!

The owners had to know exactly what was going on. It's their business to know.

[Forkboy]

19. Then show me the evidence.

Shouldn't be hard if my answer is such a copout.

No wonder I avoided this dump for a few days. :eyes:

[JonLP24]

23. lol I was wondering why you didn't show

I thought it had something to do with Cboy getting canned.

[Forkboy]

26. Nope, nothing to do with cboy.

[inthebrain]

24. That what we want

cause the claim is out and allowed to sit.

It should be investigated.

[madinmaryland]

13. I would dispute your assertion about the teams. They have to have known

what was going on. For their cover, they definitely would have turned a blind eye on what was going on as they roiders were bringing fans and LOTS of cash into the pockets of the owners. Selig has admitted as much. Either that or they were incredibly stupid or naive, which I highly doubt.

As has been said, the era of the steroid will be a real stain on the game of baseball.

[Forkboy]

22. The asterisks will go next to this entire era of baseball.

Sad for the sport, but self-inflicted.

[inthebrain]

14. According to Conseco

The owners actually encouraged this.

If I recall he pointed a finger at Shrub when he owned the Texas Rangers.

ALso, the guy who did a lot of the supplying was a MA state cop.

[Forkboy]

17. Yeah, but that's Conseco.

He'll say anything to sell another book.

[inthebrain]

21. The Rubin defense?

Whether is motive is to sell another book or not that doesn't disprove the claim.

I'd like to know if what he said is actually true. I'm also stunned that not one sports writer, after he made that claim, failed to do any research into it.

[Forkboy]

25. It doesn't disprove it, but only a naive person would think it may not be motivation to make shit up

If you want to trust Conseco live it up. Lord knows he's demonstrated what a fine upstanding citizen he is.

[inthebrain]

27. The owners are not exactly fine upstanding citizens themselves

Neither are the MA state police. I have a hard time buying that a MA state Trooper was the biggest supplier of this stuff and no one knew about. Seems like tons of MLB players knew about it.

The owners obviously know the results of the testing as well.

I don't really care for the reputation, and even with that said, Conseco has gotten a lot of what he wrote correct.

[rockymountaindem]

28. I have a question

I just started learning about this a couple of minutes ago when I got to my office. Is what Ortiz was on banned at the time?

Secondly, I'm going to go with Forkboy and say that this entire era is going to have an asterisk next to it. I don't think this makes the Sox victories any less credible because they were going against teams who were also surely on the juice the whole time, so in that sense it was a level playing field (sadly because everybody was cheating). The reason people were calling for an asterisk on Bonds' record is because he was competing against someone from a different era who we know didn't juice. In that sense, it wasn't fair to Aaron that Bonds got to hit the steroids and he didn't. That's the reasoning behind the asterisk IMHO. But if we're going to put an asterisk on the Sox for '04 and '07, we gotta add some for the Angels, Cards, Marlins and White Sox too. This shit taints everybody.

However, I'm not surprised this came out about Ortiz. It was just a matter of time. I have just assumed for a long time that everybody of note (maybe with some exceptions like Pujols who is still putting up insane numbers in the post-roid era) was guilty. Still, I am disappointed in Ortiz, and doubly glad I invested my $25 in a Pedroia t-shirt instead.

[JonLP24]

29. If they are going to use asterisks

They should use them appropriately. On the players who have evidence that they have done so. Not any of this guilt by association crap. There are a number of players who haven't been proven to using the juice and they shouldn't be unfairly slapped with one because some big names were caught.

[rockymountaindem]

31. That's not what I was suggesting

There are undoubtedly plenty of players who were/are clean. What I'm saying is that saying one team in particular deserves an asterisk is not the way to go because every *team* benefited from steroids even if they had some clean players. There's no team that wasn't using them. Therefore, to say the Sox are tainted because they won two championships during the steroid era is foolish, as if there weren't any Marlins players on the juice in 2003, and all the White Sox were clean in 2005 etc.

Besides, if we're going to go down that route, what does it say for the Giants and the Yankees etc. that they couldn't even win a ring despite the fact that they had tons of steroid users in the clubhouse?

[JonLP24]

32. Sorry for misunderunderstanding

That does make a lot of sense and I agree with it. I may be a bad Rockies fan but urine testing and full penalties was instated in 2005 so the 2007 Red Sox victory should be considered a clean one.

[Auggie]

30. FRAUDS

[smoochpooch]

33. I want to hear from Curt Schilling now! That douche was so outspoken about PED (and GWB).

Schilling is NOT a HOFer!

[madinmaryland]

35. You think Schilling was a roider?

[smoochpooch]

36. No, but he was always running his mouth about PEDs. Now it turns out that PED was probably

part of the reason he won 21 games in 2004.

More than anything though, this is the guy who implored people to vote for shrub in 2004 so I really hate him.

[madinmaryland]

37. I did dislike him for shilling for Bush.

[Forkboy]

38. Can you imagine the asshole he would have been if he WAS doing roids?

:scared:

[Auggie]

34. Some "comeback" against Cleveland in the 2007 ALCS...

:sarcasm:

THEY CHEATED

[trumad]

39. Indians fans are pissed.

From Andy Borowitz...

May 8, 2009

Angry Cleveland Indians Fans Demand Team Take Steroids
Threaten Boycott of 'Roid-free Squad

The national pastime suffered another black eye last night when a mob of irate Cleveland Indians fans poured onto the diamond at Progressive Field to demand that their team take steroids.

Displeasure with the championship-starved squad reached a boiling point with the news that slugger Manny Ramirez took performance-enhancing drugs - but only after leaving the Indians.

When asked by ESPN if he ingested the banned medication while playing for Cleveland, Mr. Ramirez shrugged his shoulders and replied, "What would be the point of that?"

Mr. Ramirez is just the latest in a long line of baseball players who have refused to take steroids while playing for the Indians, says fan Chuck Goulardi, 49, the leader of last night's protest.

"Manny's comment was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back," says Mr. Goulardi, who has seen his roid-free Tribe fall to their juiced-up competition more times than he can recall. "These players are paid good money, and all we're asking them to do is take one measly shot in the ass."

But getting the Indians to start taking steroids may be easier said than done, ays former slugger Jose Canseco, the author of the controversial tell-all book Juiced.
"On more than forty occasions I sneaked into the Cleveland clubhouse, offering to shoot those guys up with roids," says Mr. Canseco. "No takers."

Last night's melee was only the latest display of dissatisfaction on the part of Cleveland fans, who earlier this season demanded that the giant TV screen on the outfield scoreboard show a different game.
http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/tony/?frames=n;read=198141&expand=1

[Forkboy]

40. ...

:rofl:

[Auggie]

43. OMG, that is so funny

"Fan Chuck Goulardi"... you had to have lived in 1960's Cleveland to appreciate how great that is.

The real Ghoulardi:



Thanks for posting Trumad

[MaineDem]

42. Wasn't MLB testing in '07? n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

41. Major League Baseball*, c. 1995-present

**

[Onceuponalife]

44. Where's uptown*?

Shouldn't he be in here snivelling about how Baroid is being persecuted because he's black?