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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 03:28 PM
Original message
NAACP, civil rights groups, rally around Vick
ESPN, 8-26-09

PHILADELPHIA -- The Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP, the Black Clergy of Philadelphia and other local civil rights groups are planning a massive demonstration to support Michael Vick at Lincoln Financial Field on Thursday, when Vick is expected to make his debut with the Eagles.

"We believe Michael Vick has served his time, paid his debt to society and deserves a second chance and the animal rights groups want to hold him hostage for the rest of his life," J. Whyatt Mondesire, president of the Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP, said Wednesday. "We think that's patently unfair. It denies Michael Vick's basic civil rights, denies him his ability to make a living."

The Eagles' security operation is planning for individual animal rights protests outside the stadium, and now must plan for the pro-Vick march. Mondesire said about a half-dozen groups from around the Philadelphia area were planning to meet at the front of Lincoln Financial Field and begin a march around the stadium prior to the Eagles' preseason game against the Jacksonville Jaguars.

The Eagles have not heard of any planned demonstration or protest from animal rights groups, which met with team management for two hours on Monday at the team's practice facility. Although no local animal rights group have yet to partner with the Eagles or Vick in a local anti-dogfighting campaign, the meeting appeared to end on a positive note and head off any planned massive protest, participants said.

LINK: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4423883
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mondesire on McNabb
In December 2005, Mondesire claimed that McNabb "choked" in Super Bowl XXXIX, and that McNabb isn't a good leader.

Mondesire took issue with McNabb's perceived abandonment of his ability to run the ball, writing that "by claiming that 'everybody expects black quarterbacks to scramble' not only amounts to a breach of faith but also belittles the real struggles of black athletes who've had to overcome real racial stereotypcasting in addition to downright segregation."

Mondesire concluded that McNabb is "not that good," and Mondesire had this pointed message for McNabb: "In essence Donny, you are mediocre at best," Mondesire wrote. "And trying to disguise that fact behind some concocted reasoning that African-American quarterbacks who can scramble and who can run the ball are somehow lesser field generals . . . is more insulting off the field than on."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/26/organizer-of-pro-vick-rally-has-a-bad-history-with-mcnabb/
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Wow---
The guy is a douche...Mondesire that is...
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hey Donovan, go commit a crime...
...apparently that's what rates in mondesire's book. Don't be a D and be a law-abiding citizen and a role model, Donovan!
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Mondesire Is A Buffoon
And his color is not an indicator of that in any way. His words make that perfectly obvious. I'm colorblind. But, i'm not idiot-blind.
GAC
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litlady Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. While I generally agree with civil rights groups I do not here.
Vick did not even pay the time of a standard cruelty sentence for one animal let alone eight confirmed that he killed and the rest he did. He could have faced at least six years for this case and got less than a third of that.

He has absolutely not paid the time for this crime. He should have to at least participate in community outreach. That would not be holding him hostage, only holding him accountable.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. He has done community outreach
I don't really feel like getting into all that whether he should be playing or not be playing but he has agreed to work with Humane Society something that he is not required by law to do. The Humane Society doesn't publicize the events but he is usually speaking to kids and the humane society President in a statement praised his ability to reach out to audience they normally haven't been able to reach.

This is a promotional video recently released http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/08/25/michael-vick-speaks-in-humane-society-promotional-video/ and the last event I can remember him attending was in Chicago http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/press_releases/vick_in_chicago_today_for_anti-dogfighting_work_081209.html and he's made numerous appearances to speak to children usually in low-income neighborhoods basically urging them not to be like him all summer.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. He's done squat...and he refused to attend the local Philly meeting
with rights groups and the Eagles...Vick cold-bloodedly murdered those animals, he is a killer, he did not just "get involve" with the wrong people, what he did is WHO he is. It's gonna take more than just one promo video and some well-staged PR events for anyone with any sense to think he's sorry, other than sorry for being caught.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The event I gave was the latest one I recall attended
Though I can't say they are well staged PR events. Maybe the one in Chicago then the Humane Society whose mission statement is to protect animals is guilty too but here is a good example of what I'm talking about.


Vick speaks with Atlanta-area kids about dangerous dogs

DECATUR, Ga. -- Michael Vick returned to the area that once celebrated his brilliant play on the football field, this time for the first of what he hopes will be dozens of appearances around the country to urge low-income youths to avoid the tragic trail left by dogfighting.

Few got to hear Saturday's message, however.

Vick's visit to a suburban Atlanta community center was largely off limits to the very neighborhood it was supposed to be helping. In an agreement between Vick's handlers and the Humane Society of the United States, only 55 people and one media crew were allowed inside. An Associated Press reporter, videographer and photographer were among the media banished from the property by police.

Most people who live in the largely black neighborhood southeast of Atlanta were unaware of Vick's appearance. Several showed up after the former Falcons quarterback had already left in a black limousine.

"Not too many people knew he was going to be here," said Stan Sutton, who stopped by the New Life Community Center to pick up some clothes and wound up being one of the few invited inside to hear Vick speak. "There would have been a lot more people here than there are now. The whole Eastside would have been here."

Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society, said the group wants to be open and reach as many people as possible with its anti-dogfighting message. But the tightly controlled appearance comes as Vick is trying to rehabilitate his image and ease his path back to the NFL.

"We all realize that he's in a special circumstance," Pacelle said. "We don't want this to be a flash in the pan. We are committed to transparency over the long run and having Michael involved in many community-based events to speak about the issue. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he wants the opportunity in a controlled setting to make his first statement on the issue. But I'm sure he's going to be speaking out more based on what he had to say today."

<snip>

"He said he did wrong," 17-year-old Stanley Jones said. "Now he's trying to come up with a smarter way to help the whole community, for young people like us, to make a change."

Jones said he appreciated having Vick in an area plagued by drugs and violence.

"You usually don't see that in the 'hood. You don't see someone from the NFL," the teenager said, holding up a pamphlet that was given out by the Humane Society: Dogfighting Hurts.

But Vick's words had more of an impact.

"The thing I got out of it was your past ain't your potential," said Antonio Frazier, a 24-year-old pit bull owner. "Everyone is entitled to redemption. ... Now he wants to stand up and pay for what he's done. He wants to give back to the community."

A leashed dog was taken into the building shortly after Vick arrived, but Pacelle said the animal was kept in a separate room while the quarterback spoke and only brought out for a demonstration after he left. Vick is barred from being around dogs as part of his probation.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12040067/rss

I also read reports to what you're referring to and they specifically says it isn't clear whether he was asked, invited, or refused but will meet with local community leaders. However it is a bit unfair he isn't at one event but has made several appearances that aren't publicized as some PR stunts. The article I mentioned in this post clearly isn't some well-staged event if the kids were surprised to see him but I don't expect to convince you otherwise. I was just responding to what a poster suggested he should be doing something that he is already active in.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think Vick should have gone to the arena league and done
LOTS of good deeds while there...people would have been willing to let him back into the NFL then...I just don't buy that he has changed or is serious about helping tos top dog fighting. There's a few screws loose when you engage in such brutality.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. AFL is bankrupt and 2009 season is cancelled, that wouldn't work out
As I don't know him personally I can't say for certain if he is serious one way or the other but as of this summer he is doing more then I am about reaching out to youth and urging them about the dangers of dogfighting, to adopt rescue pit bills(which I strongly support as I have one adorable 1 year pit) and to do the right thing in general.

I'm not trying to get in a pissing match over this. They way I look at it, that's behind him and he's trying to move on with his life and at least appear to do some good while actually do some good weather he means it or not. If he goes back to the crime that got him here, fine he's done. You don't get 3 chances but generally 2nd chances is something I embrace.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Then the AFL or the UFL or whatever leagure they're starting
that will also go belly-up soon!

I'm not for permanent punishment, but I think people are letting Vick off easily...if he proves he's changed and does some good because of all of this, fine, but fisnishing a prison term doesn't mean you're contirte and learned your lesson.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I agree 100%
Vick has been coached to appear like he's reformed, but that type of crime (I'm talking about the animal abuse here, not the gambling) isn't cured by a year and a half in prison. If he thought killing animals was fun before, I'm sure he doesn't think it is wrong now. I don't think he was sitting in jail thinking "Gee, that really WAS wrong for me to torture animals."

A person with this type of psychological disorder is sometimes punished for life; witness child molesters and sexual predators. I'm not saying that Vick has been guilty of these crimes, but there has been shown to be a strong connection between the two. Animal abuse often does lead to more violent sociological crimes. Vick can't change his personality, but maybe he control his behavior. That's the good news.

I think Vick got off relatively easy, not only from the justice system, but also from the NFL. With Roger Goddell saying that he wants to improve the image of the NFL, I was very surprised that he let Vick back in with virtually no suspension. I guess it's OK to look the other way if the player/felon/psychopath is a money maker for the league. The league really seemed to have been going out of it's way to get him back into the NFL.

This isn't a "second chance" that Vick is getting as he's had many brushes with the law in the past. This may be "another" chance, but it's not like he'd been an angel before he was caught. And it wasn't a "mistake." It was his chosen way of life. But like I said, maybe he can control his behavior and become a positive force. But I doubt he'll ever feel that he was doing anything wrong.
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litlady Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I knew that he was doing these things...
but I was responding to the notion that he should not be taken hostage by animal rights groups.

Only Vick knows if he is sincere in his community outreach, but the times he lied and the short time he served don't seem to add up to sincerity.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I have mixed feelings
about the football end of this. But I don't have mixed feelings about the issues involving cruelty to animals. It's ugly and shows a definite lack of decency.

That said, I have watched some of the films of Vick, and would hesitate to say that he has not learned something, and had his eyes opened. Nor would I say that he definitely has learned the lessons that I believe are most important.

But, from what I've seen and heard, he would appear to be on the right path. And I do not believe that it is essential for him to meet with every group that demands a meeting. It strikes me as curious that some of the same people who are offended by his being able to capitalize on his athletic abilities, would then seek high profile meetings with him. There's at very least a hint of profit motive in that type of meeting.

Perhaps it would be a better measure of Vick's attitude if such groups requested low profile meetings at first, and did not look to use the publicity to promote their personal beliefs about what, if any, role Vick should have in football. Try meeting with him in a private setting, and finding if there is a way to work together to promote what should be a mutually agreed upon message.

Again, that's just my opinion. I understand and appreciate that Vick's past is repulsive to others, in a way that is difficult to get past.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree with everything
Edited on Thu Aug-27-09 12:01 PM by JonLP24
The first paragraph about the cruelty to animals is something I didn't make clear in this thread which I strongly detest as well. You make a good point about certain groups that may or have demand a meeting and the link I posted about the meeting with Atlanta youth describes a low profile event which the Humane Society set-up where very few media personnel was allowed to cover. I really think the Humane Society is sincere in there approach with having Vick do some outreach as well as helping him out repair his image at the same time. You said what I was trying to say in so many ways much better then I did and I'll just leave it with you said. The last paragraph as well about how others feel about this is a sentiment I share.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. There are always
three groups, when it comes to public communication. They include those who already support you and your position; those who already oppose you, and hence do not listen to your position; and the "undecided."

In this context, Vick's message should be directed primarily towards those people who do not have any strong opinions, based on knowledge, about the issues involved in animal cruelty. He can best coordinate this message with people who support his efforts. However, it is possible to convince some people who strongly oppose him and his playing football, that he is sincere. And that's most likely to be accomplished in those low-profile meetings that we both hope for.

When a person has been convicted of this type of crime, and returns to a high-profile position, it should be expected that they will face a lot of anger from large segments of the public. That's part of the deal. I hope that, in the current circumstances, Vick is able to deal with it in a way that does not distract from or derail his efforts to advocate for animals' safety.

Tough issue.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Every sentence should be a life sentence.
Dammit.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank God! Someone here makes sense!
:evilgrin:
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