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Survey: Only 10% of Native Americans find 'Redskins' offensive

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:18 PM
Original message
Survey: Only 10% of Native Americans find 'Redskins' offensive
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6093796/

13% of Native Americans with college degrees found the name offensive and 9% of those without college degrees.

These results follow a survey I read in 2000.

The logos for the Braves and Indians were seen as very offensive. Those for the Redskins and Blackhawks were not.

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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, regardless of the survey, I would not call a Native American a Redskin.
"Hey Redskin, what's up?"

In fact, as you can see by what my first comment says, I would not refer to anyone of that nationality a "redskin". I will refer to someone as Cherokee, Seminole, etc., if they have said that is what their heritage is.



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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Would you walk up to a NativeAmerican
And say "Hi Chief"? Maybe KC should change their name..
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Nice try, Snyder. I joke around with a more than a few people,
and yes I do use "chief". First, "chief" is a position in a hierarchy, and not necessarily specific to a race. I would never contemplate calling anyone "redskin", "whiteskin", etc., though.

Would you?

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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I would not
Edited on Mon Sep-21-09 07:30 PM by TZ
But I would never use chief or brave either. That's rather condesceding. Nor would I ever do that awful chop thing that Atlanta, Cleveland and Florida State do. Plus the logo at least is realistic, not a sterotypic exaggeration like the Cleveland mascot. In the anacdotal area my stepfather whom is 1/4 Cherokee (and looks it) is a bigger fan than I am..
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The Cleveland baseball team's logo is very bad
I'm a european-american but I cringe every time I see the Chief Wahoo logo. When it comes to the Washington logo or any other team logo I don't have a say and I shouldn't. It's not up to me what natives find offensive but the Cleveland logo is really bad imo.
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Capt. America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I am one of the few Clevelanders that agree: Wahoo has to go. Not only is it racist, it is stupid.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I wanted to add
Please be wary of any caucasian that claims to be part-cherokee. Very many were wiped out in the trial-of-tears and it's very common for a caucasians that claim native-american descent it's always 'cherokee', never hopi, apache, or some other. I'm not saying I don't believe you or your step-father is lying because there are cherokee descendants. I'm surprised by how many I've met that claim Cherokee descendants considering that a great majority was wiped out by the trial-of-tears and not to mention native americans make up just 1% of the entire population and a very small portion of that is actually cherokee. In fact it's a running joke of native americans that are so many caucasians that claim Cherokee descent.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. ..
:popcorn:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. My buddy is Shawnee. nt
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Onceuponalife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. It's TRAIL of Tears not "trial"
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Sorry
I do normally know how to spell the difference and I was typing quickly and my spell check wasn't useful because I did spell trial correctly. :(
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Nice post, Grammar Natsi!
:D
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. APPLAUSE
Every time I answer the question 'what do you do for an living'....i get both 'are you indian (no)' and of course 'oh i am 1/8 cherokee'..... I reply 'REALLY are you enrolled?' And the blank stare answers it all!
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. As to chief, what does "CEO" or "COO" stand for? I do agree that
the Cleveland mascot is disgusting.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. My instincts agree with yours...but the name is used for teams in Native areas..
It's also interesting to note that when I was in polling, I had to do a fair amount of surveys with Native American populations, mostly out West. About gambling, of course. The majority preferred to be called 'Indians', which surprised me.

I'm not wedded to the name.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Now that surprises me
I've lived here in Arizona and not yet met one native that preferred 'indian'. Even when I lived in Flagstaff which has a fairly high NA population and whenever asked they always said native american. At the time my grandparents lived in Flagstaff and my grandpa made the mistake of referring to one as an 'indian' and the man got very angry with him.

As far as your OP it shouldn't be a majority rules type of thing. If the 10% of 700 represents 10% of the entire NA population then that is a significant number and if that many finds it offensive then they should respect their requests. I won't say whether or not they should keep their name because I'm white and I'm in no position to consider what NAs find offensive.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I worked in Calif. and Nevada where the tribes are much smaller and there is less
cohesiveness in the community than other places in the west and midwest.
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. agree
Lived in Tucson and Flag for many years and still work with tribes in AZ daily. Tribes or the tribes name is always the safest way to go in AZ...but then never call a O'dohom a Navajo, or an Apache a Pima (Maracopia/Salt River/Gillia River)!
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. That reminds of a time
Though the guy was clearly being racist he was very incorrect. (Short-long story first) I knew him because he was but no longer a brother-in-law of a friend who is white I haven't seen in years so I knew who he was based on that. His mother is kind of like the town homes cop but she was just some big time member of the HoA.

Anyways when I was about 18-years old my best friend at the time is native. Anyways so this guy seen him hang around my friend a few times when he saw that I was by myself shooting a basketball he approached me and said "Tell that Nava(JOE)-his pronunciation- that if I see him again I'll call the police for trespassing." Anyways when I saw my friend and told him that my friend laughed "I'm not even Navajo, I'm Yavapai." Anyways it probably wasn't a week later the guy got into a confrontation with my friend and ultimately he wouldn't leave(I did live in the town homes too and knowing him from my white friend he also had visitors that didn't live in the town homes). Moments later the police came and we both took off in separate directions, the police never did find him but they found me and questioned why I even took off. They said they weren't here for me but both me and him was drunk(We were both but not 21). Anyways police let me go after I told them that I didn't know where he lived and he just comes to knock on my door which was partially true.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. The Only Full Blooded Native North American, I've Even Known. . .
. . .like the term IPNAC. (Indigenous Peoples of North America). He was a nonlinear mathematics PhD candidate back in the 80's. Really funny guy, too! Smart and funny! How could i not like him?
GAC
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. What did your polling say about their thoughts about Thanksgiving.
I've have known several (not that I know very many) Native Americans that see Thanksgiving Day as a day of mourning. I think that says alot to me what they think about the history of this country.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. We didn't cover that. But I sure can understand that. It was all downhill from there for them. nt
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. Many tribal governments....
Do not shut down on Columbus Day and while they do take the Thanksgiving Holiday it is more following traditional feasts that feel around harvest time (fall). But in the 21st century most tribal members will enjoy a day or two of sports. All tribal members I know are very active in sports and have their fav team...and yes some love the Washington Redskins and relish when the "'skins beat the Cowboys"....yet in NM many tribal members love the Dallas Cowboys....go figure.
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. go with what they say/use
In grad school (poli sic, native american policy focus) it was native american. When i showed up on the rez, they just looked at me and said "I am an Indian" OR "I am Nez Perze, or Cherokee, or Navajo" whenever i said native american.

I learned go with what they say and don't expect you know what is right....but I have found tribal or tribal member is always the safest word to use. :)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Blackhawks logo is in honor of Chief Black Hawk.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes. I never understood why the 'Braves' name was changed to 'Redskins'
with the transfer from Boston.

It makes no sense to me.
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Because George Marshall
was the biggest racist in professional sports history.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. He was dreadful. nt
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. True but....
He could have been honored a lot more if his land was not seized by the US government in 1800's and he had not been handed over (as a ward) to his rival Chief/tribe. And that following the Blackhawk War his and neighboring tribes had not been made wards of the state and thus losing all rights they had.

While I am unsure of the position of the Sac and Fox Nation (who Blackhawk was one of many chiefs) on the Chicago Blackhawks.

However, I suspect you are on to something. Chicago Blackhawks is not a slang term that is deemed racist like the term 'redskin' or 'skins. Like the FSU Seminoles, the Chicago Blackhawks does present tribal peoples in a more positive way and I might guess it is viewed more OK than others.


FYI....

Chief Black Hawk's Farewell Words

"You have taken me prisoner with all my warriors - I fought hard.

"But your guns were well-aimed. The bullets flew like birds in the air, and whizzed by our ears like the wind through the trees in the winter. My warriors fell around me, it began to look dismal. I saw my evil day at hand.

"The sun rose dim on us in the morning, and at night it sunk in a dark cloud, and looked like a ball of fire. That was the last sun that shone on Black Hawk. His heart is dead, and no longer beats quick in his bosom. He is now a prisoner to the white man; they will do with him as they wish. But he can stand torture, and is not afraid of death. He is no coward!

"Black Hawk is an Indian -- farewell, my nation! Black Hawk tried to save you, and avenge your wrongs.

"He has been taken prisoner, and his plans are stopped. He can do no more. He is near his end. His sun is setting, and he will rise no more"
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. No Alaskans polled yet 240 of the over 500 tribes are in Alaska.
Interesting poll. I'll have to look at it more closely. As I find it suspect.

Having worked for a national tribal (federally recognized American Indian/Alaskan Native Village) organization for almost a decade I find it rather interesting that 48 states were polled. Many of those states have no federally recognized tribes, like Illinois (I'll pick on my birth state). Granted the city of Chicago does have a large tribal peoples population, but to interview folks in Illinois and leave out Alaska as a test area just invalidates this poll.

The state of Alaska has over 240 federally recognized tribes. In Alaska they are called Alaskan Native Villages. These are not to be confused with 100s of (for profit) Native Corporations. One is a sovereign government based on race. The other is a for profit corporation whose Board of Directors are members of Native Villages.

Today there are 564 federally recognized tribes in the United States of America and over 240 of those tribes are in the state of Alaska. To not interview any tribal member from that state is like having an poll on "what Texans think about oil (or whatever)" and not interview anyone that lives in Texas!

And many tribal members may not find the term "Redskin" or "Skin" offensive as they use it to describe themselves. However, it does make it OK for another race to use that term, especially when that term is used to brand a professional sports team. All races use slang to describe themselves in their own circles...but it doesn't make it appropriate for others to use it.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thanks, and welcome (belated) to DU!
Are you from Alaska?

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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Thank and no...
I am from (born), in the Land of Lincoln...the real home of Bart and Homer - Springfield, IL. But I've lived in the southwest for 15 years, and call the Land of Enchantment home.
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. Some info / resolutions from Tribal governments...not a "survey".
So this one has been on my mind for a full day now.

First the survey is heavily flawed. To survey less than 1,000 tribal members in 48 states. How were those that answered the question defined? Is a tribal member someone like Johnny Depp who says he has 1/8 Cherokee blood....as most white people in the USA claim? Or is tribal member defined as an enrolled member in a federally recognized tribe? There is a massive difference between the two! Second, to exclude a state which has the largest tribal population (of federally recognized tribal members) just in my mind invalidates the survey all together. Alaska has more federally recognized tribes than any other. In fact Alaska has more than 2/5's of all the federally recognized tribes! (www.ncai.org)

It is very difficult to find consensus among tribal governments, let alone individual tribal peoples. Keep in mind we are talking about 564 federally recognized sovereign governments within the boundaries of the USA. 564 "countries" or "states" who have the same legal rights as states. 564 nations who are immune to state laws and are equal in all legal and judicial way as the 50 states. To find consensus is difficult to get when 1/4 homes on tribal lands (on the Navajo it is closer to 2/3) have no phone or electricity, let alone a nearby cell tower. It is hard to gain opinion when the majority of tribal nations are in third world conditions.

The last thing on most tribal governments minds or tribal peoples minds is what a sports team has as a logo. Instead tribal governments and tribal peoples are dealing with disproportionate rates of health concerns/illness like diabetes, heart disease, asthma; they are dealing with substance abuse that at levels far greater than anywhere else in the USA; they are dealing with the realities of climate change, which will force at least 3 Native Alaskan Villages to be relocated in the next 10 years due to melting perma frost or rising oceans at a cost of over $200 million. I have close friends who live in these places, including Bethel and Kivalina. No money has been allocated to address the realities of climate change to any tribe. In fact, all 564 tribes get less than $12 million annually to administer Air Quality programs similar to those of states, as state DEQ has no jurisdiction on tribal lands. What monies the tribes do get or generate themselves in only a drop in the bucket to what states get....it does not do enough. And remember not all tribes have a Casino, nor could they if they wanted one. And its a fact that not all Casinos make a profit. In fact tribal peoples are still the poorest in the USA....always have been, and probably will be in my lifetime.

http://news21.jomc.unc.edu/index.php/stories/alaska.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/us/27newtok.html


So the reality is many tribes don't think about such an issue as they have bigger issues to solve and address. Running water, clean air, electricity, and substance abuse are just a few we all take for granted sometimes.

And yes like all races and cultures what might be a taboo for 'outsiders' to say is OK for the culture or race to use. An Indian, Native American, tribal member can often in small groups refer to themselves as a 'skin....but that doesn't mean its OK for the world to use it. Nor is it ok for a sports team to use it!

Only the race which a term to describe can truly state if a term is racist. Can a white man/women really know if 'skin is truly racist? I'd hope they could, but some comments I see prove otherwise.

Finally, one only needs to look at what the majority of colleges and sports teams have done over the past 20 years to realize if this is right or wrong. Only 4 NCAA Universities were allowed to keep a logo or mascot. All four of those where allowed to b/c they got the tribes approval (usually the tribes whose name was used or logo depicted or the tribes within that state or region). Those that did not or could not (like the Illini as no Illini tribe exists anymore) lost the right.

Like I said to assume that 564 sovereign Nations would agree on such an issue is like saying the UN would all agree on something. So won't just on principle.

But for your information, one organization exists that does give some weight to the issue.

The National Congress of Indians (www.naci.org) or NCAI. "The NCAI was founded in 1944 in response to termination and assimilation policies that the United States forced upon the tribal governments in contradiction of their treaty rights and status as sovereigns. NCAI stressed the need for unity and cooperation among tribal governments for the protection of their treaty and sovereign rights. Since 1944, the National Congress of American Indians has been working to inform the public and Congress on the governmental rights of American Indians and Alaska Natives." But even with such goals which would make one assume all tribes are members, in less than half of the federally recognized tribes are members. So even with the info provided, I'll admit it is tough to prove that "all" tribes feel this way.
http://www.ncai.org/About.8.0.html

NCAI has passed resolution after resolution on this issue each year at their annual conferences. In fact, I'll bet that before today's deadline a resolution will or has been submitted on this very topic for NCAI's 2009 annual conference to be held in 3 weeks time.

Here is the official NCAI position on the subject.

"The National Congress of American Indians strongly condemns the use of sports team mascots that claim to portray Native Americans and Native cultures in a positive light...it is only with Native Americans that this practice continues. It is a national insult and does nothing to honor the Native peoples of this country."

http://www.ncai.org/ncai/resource/documents/governance/NCAIposis.htm
http://www.ncai.org/ncai/resource/documents/governance/BCF349.htm
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Thank you for your valuable insight
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 12:10 PM by JonLP24
This article reminds me of a poll conducted SI years ago and even though the 'majority' didn't find the name offensive it was a far smaller number then MSNBC.

<snip>75% of Native American respondents in SI's poll said they were not, and even on reservations, where Native American culture and influence are perhaps felt most intensely, 62% said they weren't offended. Overall, 69% of Native American respondents -- and 57% of those living on reservations -- feel it's O.K. for the Washington Redskins to continue using the name.<snip>
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/08/17/indian.wars030402/index.html

When I did have a SI subscription years ago I remember an intramural basketball team at University of Northern Colorado conducted a satirical team name protest in the native american team names. While I can't remember which of the many magazines I still have features the article, Wikipedia has it down. I thought it was funny and a good idea.



The Fighting Whites (alternatively identified as Fightin' Whites, Fighting Whities, or Fightin' Whities) were an intramural basketball team formed at the University of Northern Colorado in 2002 and named in response to the Native American mascot controversy.<1>

The intramural college team briefly attracted a storm of national attention because of its satirical protest about stereotypes of Native Americans being used as sports mascots, particularly the "Fightin' Reds" of Eaton High School in Eaton, Colorado, not far from the university in Greeley. The Reds' mascot has been described as "a caricature Indian with a misshapen nose, a loincloth and eagle feather".<2>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Good point
I always wondered how the majority in this country would feel if a tribal college had as their mascot and logo something similar? (Whitey, Caucasian, Cracker, etc, etc) There are many tribal colleges throughout the country and I'd smile a bit if one had the gumption to do such a thing.
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