Darin Erstad: Out of line, or just playing the game the way it's played?

[bertha katzenengel]

Responses to this thread made me curious. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=215x16630

I am a dyed-in-the-wool, born & bred Angels' fan, so I honestly can't tell whether I'm biased. But I'm also a lifelong player. I play hard and I know how the game is played. IMO that's how you play the game: if the plate is blocked, the runner goes in doing whatever he can to score without trying to hurt the other guy. Erstad didn't try to hurt Estrada. Angels fan or not, that much is clear to me from the replay.

So: was Ersty out of line? Did he go in too hard? Did he clock Johnny on purpose?

Or: was he just playing the game the way it has been played for decades?

[mr_hat]

1. You can't go in too hard. Unless you're Pete "Moran" Rose >

in a meaningless All Star game. In which case, ruining a guy's career is OK.

Erstad is a little guy; doesn't have the advantage of wearing the tools of ignorance. You pull up, there's a greater chance that you yourself get hurt. Catchers understand and respect that.

edit: dufusness

[bluestateguy]

2. What kind of stupid name is Erstad anyway?

Sounds like the name of a nerdy engineer or something.

[alarimer]

3. I saw the replay

It didn't seem so bad. And I'm a Braves fan (although I don't really pay that much attention). He's no Ty Cobb, that's for sure (I mean the way Cobb would slide in, spikes high - I have no idea how good a player Erstad is).

[Ekirh]

4. As a fellow

Braves fan I agree with you on this. I wouldn't say it didn't seem so bad.... I've watched the replay a few times and I still cringe. But I don't blame him for going int as hard like that. He wanted to score.. Catcher was in the way... in those situations catachers are usually fair play. As I stated in another thread ont his board... it just really sucks the Braves can add another injury to our list of bruises and bumps as of late.

[bertha katzenengel]

9. "no idea how good a player" --

He is the solid, quiet, ultra-reliable type. He reminds me of Cal Ripken in his work ethic. Methodical, hard-working, gets the job done. He's the only player ever to win gold gloves in both the infield and the outfield.* At the plate he is solid too. He's the kind of guy the manager knows he can call on for anything: hit & run, sacrifice, whatever. And he is a big-time hometown favorite. He's becoming one of my all-time favorite Angels, and I've been following the team since I knew what a baseball was . . .

:hi:

* I heard this on XM radio the other day and wasn't surprised but truth to tell I haven't verified it. But I think it's so.

[cobaindrain]

5. this Mets fan says

It's only OK if it happens to the Braves.

[enigami]

6. Hey !

Thats the way the game is played.

Signed: Ty Cobb

[bertha katzenengel]

11. that's not fair, enigami

You can't compare the two players.

[Ekirh]

13. True

Ty was one of the dirtiest players in the game. . .

But with a 367 average (I think) and I remember 4,191 career hits... he was also one of the best baseball have ever seen. Ty Cobb may of been dirty. .. but he played to win and he played HARD.

As I keep repeating I am a Braves fan. . . and it sucks to see Estrada go down. . . BUT. . . I'm not going fault any player who is playing to win and is playing hard just because a player on my team got hurt in the after math. It sucked. . . but it wasn't a dirty play.

[KitchenWitch]

7. Torii Hunter was accused of the same thing last year

at the plate when he knocked Jamie Moyer over. Even Ozzy Guillen (the White Sox manager) said that Torii did the right thing. But the shit storm of White Sox fans attacking Torii Hunter over that play was nothing short of amazing.

[atre]

8. Well, it would've earned him a fine and a suspension if he was in the NFL

Helmet to helmet shots aren't allowed in football, but they are too infrequent an occurrence in baseball for there to be any controversy surrounding the lack of any rule. If by clean you mean legal, it ws clean. But it was very dirty.

I don't think you can call that "going in hard." Going in hard is laying it in at the waste to try to jar the ball loose. Erstad went slightly out of the base path to make a diving helmet to helmet shot. Fortunately for the Braves catcher, he hadn;t flipped off his helmet beforehand; if he had he probably would have come away with a fractured skull.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. dude. he went helmet to helmet only because

the catcher was so low there was nowhere for Erstad to go.

"Going in hard is laying it in at the waste to try to jar the ball loose."

That is what he was trying to do - there was no room for that - his waist and his head were basically at the same level. If Erstad had aimed any lower, he would have had to crawl to the plate.

[bertha katzenengel]

12. that wasn't a helmet-to-helmet hit

Look at the replay again. Yes, both their helmets got knocked off in the collision, and yes, their helmets hit. But Ersty didn't hit Estrada in the head. He didn't lead with his head. That wasn't a helmet-to-helmet hit.

[Allenberg]

14. Maybe Erstad was taking out his frustrations after being a wimpy punter

at Nebraska. :shrug:

[bamacrat]

15. It was a legal cheap shot.

He could have slid around estrada and been safe without plowing him over. ESPN called Erstad an ex Nebraska football player. he was a punter/kicker. Not that there's anything wrong with that.