Uh oh. Now it's the Curse of the Pokey!

[HuckleB]

The Sox failed to re-sign their good luck charm!

:)

Personally, this is a stupid move on the part of the Mariners. There's no sense in sending Lopez down for another year at AAA. Sheesh.

[cruadin]

1. I like Pokey, he's an outstanding middle-infielder,...

which often struck me as weak spot in the Red Sox defense this past season, especially after Nomar left for Wrigley. I think a big knock on Reese, from the management perspective, was his weak bat.

I guess it's a matter of philosophy, or management style, but with the acquisition of Renteria (and the fact that Francona seems to like the idea of Bellhorn at second base), Pokey became expendable.

Barring injury to Renteria or Bellhorn, he probably would not have seen much everyday play in Boston this year. He will almost certainly be the every day shortstop with Seattle.

I wish Pokey well.

[nickgutierrez]

2. Nobody will use Reese as efficiently as the Sox did last year

The way they played him, especially come playoff time, is exactly how he should be used -- late in games on defense, and starting when a heavy groundball pitcher like Lowe is on the mound. He can't start every day, because he can't hit.

[HuckleB]

3. Actually, when he did start every day, he hit pretty well.

So there is some debate about that. When he was truly healthy and played nearly every day, he batted .285. He has also hit fair enough in two other years when he played most of the time. Of course, he is an injury waiting to happen.

[nickgutierrez]

4. If that were actually true, it would have held up over his career.

And it just hasn't.

He had a pretty good season in 1999, but his other seasons (2001 especially) certainly don't have anything in them to suggest he's more than a bad hitter.

[HuckleB]

5. There are many factors at play.

Injuries being the number one factor for Reese. He's only had one year below .250 when he was mostly healthy. Add the speed on base to that, and the average is actually a little higher in terms of effectiveness.

It's the injuries, not the bat, that are the big issue.

[nickgutierrez]

6. I'm a fan of OBP over BA.

When I look at Pokey, I see two seasons (out of his nine in the league) where his OBP touched .330 (exactly that in both cases). In the first of those seasons, 1999, the NL average for second basemen was .343 (.353 in the AL). The second of these, 2002, he was right on the NL average at .330 (.318 in the AL). So he's had one season in his career when he touched his league average in OBP, and that's not good.

In a completely unrelated note, I was stunned to see the precipitous drop in average OBP from 1999 to 2002. I'll have to look into that a bit more, but it does seem to be a league-wide trend.

[HuckleB]

9. Sounds like you are definitely worried about this new curse.

Why else would you go down so many pathways to justify the Sox letting Reese go?

:)

[nickgutierrez]

16. I'm a Yankees fan.

:D

[Mojambo]

7. You're wrong

Lopez was the 5th youngest player in MLB last season (21.) It was clear to nearly everyone who watched him play everyday that he was not ready.

This buys the Mariners a year of development time for him at a very low cost and provides gold glove defense at every infield position.

Bavasi has done a tremendous job this offseason.

[HuckleB]

8. Bavasi has done the same old Mariners routine.

Don't buy the hype. You're just repeating what you read in the papers. Think for yourself. Lopez would have done as well, if not better than Pokie, and there's no reason for him not to develop at the MLB level if you can't actually improve on his performance -- which the Mariners won't do with Reese. Lopez did better than many major league shortstops, and certainly better than the aging crips Bavasi brought in when he shipped out Guillen, which was absolutely STUPID from the word go.

Bavasi sucked in Anaheim, and he's done the same in Seattle. Sure, it's great to have the two new big bats, but he didn't do crap for pitching. When it comes to the Mariners, it's always half-assed baloney intended to tease the fans just enough to keep 'em coming. Nothing more, nothing less. They simply won't push it the extra step that it takes to be a true contender for the championship.

[Mojambo]

10. Again. You're wrong.

And I don't appreciate being told I'm not thinking for myself, so save it please.

The Mariners are improving on Lopez significantly. I don't know if you had a chance to watch him play last year, but his biggest weakness was his defense. He is NOT ready to play everyday at the major league level and continued time up here would have stunted his growth (as well as added another year to his FA clock)

And quite frankly, I'm not sure we're talking about the same player in Jose Lopez.

Last year (at 21 years of age, when most players are in AA) Lopez put up the following numbers...

.232 BA .263 OBP .367 SLG .630 OPS
and he played less than passing defense.

Is it truly your contention that Pokey Reese will not be a better contributor overall? Lopez's numbers, to me, indicate that he needs more seasoning and it is much more likely that he'll get that done in AAA.

No argument on the Guillen trade. It was bad, but it also was pretty much done before Bavasi arrived last season.

So far, Bill Bavasi has made a terrific deal with the White Sox to grab 3 good prospects for a FA pitcher that wasn't coming back, and signed two of the more sought after free agent hitters during this off-season.

The guy isn't infallible, but he doesn't deserve the kind of criticism he routinely receives... At least not based on the moves he has made so far.

As for the lack of pitching acquisitions, the Mariners are widely regarded to have many young pitchers topping out at AAA. They'll need to start plugging them in in 2005 (which is another reason you don't particularly want the stone hands of Lopez at SS in 2005.) There is also the probability that the M's will work the trade market for pitching. The bottom line is that offense was the overriding need this off-season and Bavasi got that done.

As for your angry, spittle-inducing last paragraph I guess I'll just shrug my shoulders and say that perhaps it is YOU that has bought into the media spin regarding the Mariners. The Beltre signing alone shows me that they are indeed willing to shell out BIG money to bring in what they need.

From an organizational standpoint the Reese signing is a very good move.

[HuckleB]

11. Nope. I'm not wrong.

I watched him live a dozen times and numerous times on television. You're over-reacting and buying into the Bavasi baloney, no matter how defensive you get about it. Sorry, but getting rid of Bavasi and bringing in the old fogeys for the left side of the field was all Bavasi. Don't let the idiot Seattle sportwriters try to rewrite history. (I know they've tried hard in the last couple of weeks.) The Mariners were foolish to hire a failure, and it's going to cost the team and its fans, and eventually people in the northwest will figure it out and stop going for the tease. You seem to forget mistake number two in all this: Getting rid of Jolbert (the one consistent sub the Mariners had) and keeping Spiezio (for what real purpose?).

I'm not the angry one here, my friend. Where in the world did you get that?

Got Mirror!?

[Mojambo]

12. I'm not the one hung up on the past.

Yes, ownership made huge mistakes in the past.

I believe that they have learned from their mistakes and are operating from a different mindset this off-season. The evidence (which you have not disputed as far as I can tell) bears this out.

Feel free to continue to live in the past, but I prefer to look at what they are doing NOW and judge it fairly. I think your displeasure with how things were done in the past is preventing you from doing the same.

Nothing in this Mariner offseason resembles in the least how they have done things in the past. That's a fact, jack.

For what it's worth, I saw every game Lopez played last year. Both in the Majors and the minor leagues. He's not ready and you haven't presented a shred of evidence to show that he is.

PS - Spezio is here because no one will take him, not because the Mariners won't give him up.

on edit - I wanted to apologize for insinuating that your comments were angry. It was inappropriate and apparently, quite wrong. They were more snarky than angry anyway ;)

[HuckleB]

14. If you don't learn from history, you'll just get fooled again and again.

The past is being repeated again. You forget that the M's have a history of making big moves, one or two of them, and then sitting on their butts and not making the rest of the moves necessary. That's exactly what has happened this year. It's just a repeat of history. Hey, if you get a kick out of being fooled, more power to you. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore reality. They spend so much money when they've got it (as they did this year), but they refuse to go over the line a bit to make a true run. At some point, a team with the kind of fan base the M's have ought to take a year of breaking even or even taking a loss and go for the championship and give the fans what they deserve, what they shell out their hard earned bucks for. If the team doesn't, it's going to eventually become clear to everyone that this is their modus operandi, and many of the fans are going to kiss 'em goodbye.

Nevermind that you just blew your cover with your nonsense about seeing every game Lopez played last year. That is, unless, your that bozo Bavasi, himself, trying to defend your nonsense moves. So you traveled the PCL and everywhere else and never had anything else that you had to be doing at any time there was a game on? Yeah, right.

;)

Apology accepted.

:)

[Mojambo]

15. I should have said every "home" game in Seattle/Tacoma

Although I thought that might be assumed.

Your opinions sound straight out of "sports-radio land" to me. Sports talk radio is the home of the "persecuted" Mariner fan. Yeah, as a Mariner fan you've been screwed in the past. Don't let that prevent you from even considering that things might be changing in Mariner management. I think if you look at the evidence it points to a significant change in the way they do business.

The fact of the matter is that the Mariners have NEVER had an off-season like the one that has just passed. Bavasi showed a forceful, multi-faceted approach in free agency. He wasn't scared off by the prospect of Scott Boras and ended up snagging the best 3rd baseman on the market at a very reasonable price.

And please tell me what "one or two big moves" they've made in the past off-season's that compare with what they did this off-season? There are no parallels. Sexson and Beltre signed the two biggest free agent deals in the history of the franchise.

It's clear you have a low opinion of Bavasi. I shared it when he came aboard, but after the initial chaos of arriving MID-offseason last year his actions have shown him to be a reasonably shrewd general manager. Based on that I have revised my opinion.

Criticizing the M's for past mistakes is understandable, but to slag them for an inadequate effort THIS off-season seems pretty petulant to me.

BTW - I'm still waiting for you to present some evidence that the Mariners wouldn't be better with Pokey Reese rather than Jose Lopez. The numbers indicate that Reese will be miles better defensively and only marginally (if at all) worse offensively.

I should also point out that Lopez could still make the team with a big spring

[WilliamPitt]

13. Pokey is a sublimely talented shortstop

who bats .230 and is prone to injury.

I saw him catch a line drive last season that was a good five feet above his head. He didn't jump. He levitated...and then came down hurt. Caught the ball, tho.