Big Ben's XL Touchdown - A Photographic Tribute

[Ravenseye]

[Beetwasher]

1. The Ball's Not Breaking The Plane

At least not in that shot.

[frylock]

2. the front of the goal line is the plane..

it was a TD. I didn't want it to be, and I pissed and moaned when it was ruled as such. But after watching the replays, it was clear that the ball broke the plane.

[Beetwasher]

3. Yes, I Know, But The Ball Is Not Breaking It

Where do you see the ball breaking the plane??? The ball is next to his left arm. It's very difficult to see it clearly because it's blurry, but it does not look like it is breaking the plane.

[Ravenseye]

4. That's the head and face of the player underneath

Not sure which player that is, but the ball is in his RIGHT ARM, which is the arm he carries the ball in, and did on that play as well.

[Beetwasher]

6. The Ball's Not Breaking The Plane

The ball is the dark object right next to (to the left) his left arm, under his chin, he may be carrying it in his right arm, but you can't see his right arm at all...The dark object (the ball) is not breaking the plane.

[trotsky]

5. It is complicated by the fact that he wore a glove.

The glove, with its light stripe(s), is indistinguishable from the ball in the replays and this blurry picture.

[Beetwasher]

7. It Is Difficult To Tell

n/t

[Captain Hilts]

8. Close enough for me.

I said the same thing of a Seattle touchdown against the Redskins.

Close enough.

[Baclava]

9. There's parallax error too...

Keep in mind, when looking at the picture, that the angle is off, making the ball appear to be farther to the right of the picture than it actually is.

In the end - it doesn't matter......

I am proud to be a Steelers fan and even more so today. The support we carry to games and at home are wonderful. The Steelers are a great team and we have a great following of big time fans.

The STEELERS are the superbowl champs, to all those who don't like it, nobody here gives a shit.
They are all just jealous.

I love the hate being thrown around. Let the doubters make all the noise. This team is fueled on the credo that only the team itself believes. More grist for the mill for next year.

[Beetwasher]

10. Hate? Where?

Not in this thread. WTF are you talking about?

We're discussing the photograph in quite a civilized manner.

Personally, I could care less who won, I'm neither a Steelers or S'Hawks fan. But the officiating sucked and whether you like it or not, the shitty calls had an effect on the game. I'm a football fan, period and I hate to see such shitty calls.

Yeah, the Steelers are the SB champs, good for them. Congrats to you. But there's no hate in this thread, or jealousy either for that matter, so WTF are you talking about?

If I were you, I'd wish the officiating were better, because I personally wouldn't want MY team to win under such a cloud, and a cloud there is.

[Baclava]

11. We - don't - fucking - care....

Fuck em all!!! hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahah

[Beetwasher]

12. Heh?

:shrug:

I don't care either. So, where's the hate? Again, WTF are you talking about?

It sucks to win under such circumstances. Unfortunately for Steeler's fans, this victory will always have a stain on it.

[Baclava]

13. Stained? The Pats cheat their way to 3 SB's and you pick this one?

Key Stat:

Steelers: 21

Seahawks: 10

Bottom line -

Steelers are World Champions and nobody can tarnish their championship run no matter how hard they try.

[friesianrider]

17. Right on.

You guys have NOTHING to be ashamed of and there is nothing tarnishing this championship other than in the minds of the tinfoil hat wearers, sour puss Seattle fans, and Pittsburgh haters. You guys won, fair and square, and you deserve it!

[Beetwasher]

20. Uh, This is The One That Just Happened

I'm no Pats fan either. :shrug:

Whatever. Think what you want. The win is a win, but unfortunately it is tarnished, though it's not the Steelers fault. But that's just reality.

[friesianrider]

23. It's tarnished according to you and a few others on DU, that's about it...

Although you're right that there were some questionable calls and several sports commentators are agreeing with you, none of them besides you and some sour pusses here on DU are saying that their victory is invalid or "tarnished" or has a "stain" on it. The reason is because it's irresponsible and wrong to do so. The Steelers won. A few questionable calls should be able to be overcome nonetheless at this calibre of play - when you get beat by 11 points by a team that got their first 1st down in the second quarter, you can't blame your loss solely on poor officiating. Moreover, Hasselbeck couldn't get near the endzone to save his life - is that the fault of the officials too? What about all the incomplete passes?

I'm a die hard Eagles fan, but it really pisses me off that people are suggesting this wasn't a fair victory for the Steelers. It's not fair to the Steelers players and it isn't fair to their fans, either. They have no reason to feel their victory is tarnished at all.

[Beetwasher]

26. Obviously You're Taking It too Personally

But there happen to be a lot of commentators and columnists who are saying the same thing. It's a damn shame, but it's tarnished. No one's saying it's invalid, but it is tarnished. Yeah, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

The questionable calls were responsible for 14pts. They won by 11. Tarnished.

[friesianrider]

29. I could care less, I'm an Eagles fan

Tarnished in YOUR mind. Does everyone agree they were questionable calls? Sure, there are in EVERY game. Real champions find ways to overcome challenges during the course of a game. Seattle didn't, and they walk home losers and the Steelers walk home winners. There were also a few questionable calls that went in favor of Seattle too (like Hasselbeck's fumble). Penalties are part of every game.

You need to let it go. They're the world champions. Get over it.

[Beetwasher]

31. I'm Not The One Who's Denying Reality

Read the sports pages, it's not just in my mind. It's tarnished. Nothing you say will change that.

[friesianrider]

34. Ok, well the "reality" my friend, is that the Steelers are the champions

You may dislike it, but that's "reality." Nothing you say will change that.

Get over it.

[Beetwasher]

37. Who Says I Dislike It? Why Do You Lie and Make Shit Up?

I've never claimed otherwise. I've only said that it's a tarnished victory, and it is and I'm not any where near alone in that sentiment.

Get over it, it's tarnished and it's pathetically dishonest of you to claim that it's only a few sour grapes who say so.

[friesianrider]

39. Hahaha! I lie and make shit up?

I'm not saying you ever said they weren't the champions. I'm just reminding you THE STEELERS ARE THE WORLD CHAMPIONS. The Steelers won the Super Bowl.

Get. Over. It. Already.

It's pathetic that people are still harping on this "bad officiating" nonsense. The game is over, the calls were what they were, let it go. Seriously dude...just let it go.

[Beetwasher]

41. Over What?

There's nothing to get over. Remind me all you want that they won, I really don't care.

You need to stop making shit up, like it's only a few sour grapes who say the win is tarnished.

[friesianrider]

42. Hahahaha...

You are too much. :rofl:

You need to get over the game. It is over, the Steelers won the Super Bowl...let it go. Seriously, just let it go.

[Beetwasher]

47. Pathetic

Who saying anything differently?

It's pathetic though that you can't admit that many people (not just Seattle fans) think it's a tarnished victory.

[friesianrider]

49. Dude, seriously...you need to get a grip on things here.

I won't admit that "many people" think it's a tarnished victory. Because maybe where you're from they do, but not here on planet Earth. Is everyone saying there were some questionable calls? Of course. They say that in every Super Bowl. That's why a few bad calls doesn't equal a tarnished victory. You're trying to jump from point A to point B and that dog just won't hunt, sweetheart.

I suggest you take a step back and take a breather - you're obviously way too emotionally invested in this.

Maybe then you can begin the road to letting this game go and moving on. :rofl:

[Beetwasher]

50. LOL!

Read the sports pages, Einstein. LOL!

[friesianrider]

52. Maybe that's part of your problem...

You're obsessed with this game. I hope you can learn to let it go and move on with your life. Maybe someday you'll even join us on planet Earth?

:rofl:

[Beetwasher]

53. I Know, It's Tough To Admit You're Full Of Shit

But you are.

[friesianrider]

55. Hahahaha!!! It's tough to get help for your issues, I know.

We're all here for you, though - I promise. :hug: Together, we can overcome this game.

[Beetwasher]

59. Still Can't Back Up Your Bullshit

Pathetic.

[timber84]

61. Funny your the only one beating that drum

[friesianrider]

62. Hey, let's play "try a new word besides pathetic"!

At least if you're only going to call me names, you could think of a new word or two.

Ok. Your turn to reply with either liar, bullshit, LOL! or pathetic. Go!

[Beetwasher]

64. Nope, That One Works Quite Well

Fits the bill nicely. Pathetic, yup.

[friesianrider]

66. So...you can't think another word. Why not invest in a thesaurus?

Oh, and a basic grammar guide would help you too.

Bummer. :(

[Beetwasher]

67. LOL!

It works and fits perfectly.

Oooh, more grammar flames!

[friesianrider]

70. Learn to write coherently and you won't get grammar flames :)

A 3rd grade writing ability is required for DU, and I'm afraid you don't fit the bill.

I'm out to lunch - this "debate" is boring me to tears. Work on your writing and letting go of this game, and have a good day! :hi:

[Beetwasher]

71. Uh Huh

No, please, more grammar flames!

[timber84]

44. No one will be talking about this the day after tomorrow.

[Bill McBlueState]

30. that's a good stat! n/t

[WilliamPitt]

88. Cheat their way to three Super Bowls?

Wow. Want some cheese with that whine?

[friesianrider]

16. I think that post is what he's talking about.

"It sucks to win under such circumstances. Unfortunately...this victory will always have a stain on it."

I don't get the point of this statement. There isn't any "stain" on this win except in the minds of jealous Seahawks fans, Steeler haters, and conspiracy theorists who think the game was fixed. I thought I'd heard it all until now...

Even if you go ahead and tke away that touchdown - Pittsburgh still wins by at least 3 (or, more likely, by 6 considering they would have gone for a FG on that 4th down).

Pittsburgh won this game fair and square and have nothing at all to be ashamed of. There is no stain on this victory other than the sour grapes being squished all over it. :eyes:

[Beetwasher]

19. Think What You Will

But there's a stain. That's not hate. It's just the way it is. Unfortunately, they didn't win it fair and square, though it's not their fault.

Read the sports pages, I'm not the only one saying this.

[friesianrider]

22. Like I said, take that TD away...

And the Steelers still win by at least 6.

The officiating was questionable on a few calls at best. The team doesn't deserve to have their championship tarnished by people playing the "what if" game and suggesting this game was rigged or somehow "won" for them. It's irresponsible and wrong.

[Beetwasher]

27. Tell it to History

It's just the way it is. It sucks, but it's reality. It will always be questioned. The questionable calls were responsible for 14 pts., it's enough to question the victory. I don't, they won as far as I'm concerned because the calls are part of the game, but to say it's not tarnished is to simply deny reality. I'm not the only one saying this, I'm reading it and hearing it in a lot of places.

[friesianrider]

28. Like I said, questioned by you perhaps...

Everyone says there were a few questionable at best calls - not no one is calling it a tarnished victory except for the few sour grapes, Steeler haters, and conspiracy theorists.

Give it up already. They're the world champions, like it or not.

[Beetwasher]

32. LOL! Read The Sports Pages and Face Reality

Lot's of people are calling it a tarnished victory. It's a shame, but that's the truth.

Sour grapes? I could care less, I've never claimed they weren't the champs. But history will always look at as a tarnished win. That's just reality.

[friesianrider]

33. Alright, well, here in the real world, the reality is...

The Steelers are the world champions. Case closed.

[Beetwasher]

35. Never Said They Weren't, Did I?

:shrug:

But it's dishonest of you to claim that it's a few sour grapes when I'm plenty of commentators saying the same thing. That's the reality. It's tarnished. Yeah, their the champs, never claimed otherwise, but it sucks that it's a tarnished victory.

[friesianrider]

36. Ok, well, think whatever you want, they're still the world champions!

By the way, "their the champs" = THEY'RE the champs.

[Beetwasher]

38. Yes, They Are, So What? Is That Supposed to Bother Me?

I couldn't care less...:shrug:

[friesianrider]

40. Ok, just reminding you they are the Super Bowl champions.

Now do me a favor, and let it go, ok?

[Beetwasher]

43. Let What Go? Keep Reminding Me All You Want

Are you so dense that you think I care that Pitt. won? :shrug: I had no horse in this game, Einstein.

You need to stop making shit up that it's only a few sour grapes and face the reality that lot's of people think it's a tarnished win, people who aren't Seahawk fans.

[friesianrider]

45. Let the GAME go, genius.

It's over, Pittsburgh won. Let it go, move on with your life.

[Beetwasher]

48. Miss The Point Much?

Did I say they didn't win? The point is you're full of shit when you say it's just sour grapes.

[friesianrider]

51. Haha...you're just a little obsessed with this game, I understand...

I'm just trying to help you...you need to let the game go and move on with your life.

[Beetwasher]

54. LOL! I Know, It's Sucks To Be So Full Of Shit and Get Called on It

But hey, that's your problem.

[friesianrider]

56. And apparently, your problem...

Is Capitalizing Every First Letter Of Every Word You Write. Oh, I forgot to add: LOL! LOL!

:rofl: :rofl:

And one for good measure: LOL!

[Beetwasher]

57. Pathetic

I guess when you've got nothing, punctuation flames will do. :eyes:

[friesianrider]

58. Oh, and your "arguments" have been the picture of maturity

You need to grow up and get a new word besides "pathetic" and "LOL!" while you're at it.

[Beetwasher]

60. Hey, If It Fits, And It Does

You're pathetic. It works. You can't back up your bullshit and you make lame grammar/punctutation flames. That's pathetic.

[friesianrider]

63. Pathetic, pathetic! Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic!

Do you have a thesaurus? You might want to invest in one.

Believe it or not, there are more words in the English language besides bullshit and pathetic. Really!

Oh damn. I forgot to capitalize the first letter of every word I wrote. Damn. I guess I'm pathetic!

[Beetwasher]

65. Yup, You Got It

Why change when something works so well?

[friesianrider]

68. Sweetie, you are such a tragically unworthy opponent...

You're one of the sorriest ones I've had here on DU.

This isn't even fun anymore :( At least some of my other opponents are witty or at least have a vocabulary that extends beyond one word.

I'm going to head out for a late lunch. Have a wonderful day, and good luck getting over that game my dear! :hug:

[Beetwasher]

69. LOL!

Grammar flames then running to "lunch". LOL!!! Buh bye, jeenyus.

[timber84]

72. Dude

There is a winner and a loser get over it.

[Beetwasher]

73. Dude

Never said otherwise, get over it. :shrug:

[timber84]

74. oh yes you have it's over your just getting mean now and

it really shouldn't be that way

[Beetwasher]

75. Uh, What?

Where did I say Otherwise?

[timber84]

46. amen

[vikegirl]

14. Question:

Isn't he already down, and if so, how long after was this photo taken?

(Just askin', no vested interest in the game since the Vikings weren't in it. :-( :-))

[Ravenseye]

15. Not down yet

That was near the end of the dive, before he was down. When he hit the ground there he was down, so maybe a few hundreths of a second later. a few tenths of a second at most.

[HuckleB]

25. From the video, it sure seems like his knees touched long before...

this blurry pic was taken.

This play is not a big deal. The Steelers probably would have scored, anyway. So who cares?

[BulletproofLandshark]

18. I watched that play over and over on TiVo

I think it was a touchdown. Even if it wasn't, it falls under the heading of "not enough evidence to overturn".

[friesianrider]

24. Exactly.

[ticapnews]

80. But if the official had stuck with the original spot of the ball

There wouldn't have been enough evidence to overturn that call and make it a touchdown. It would have been 4th down inside the 1. Why did the official change his call?

[Ravenseye]

81. Who Knows

I think the referees made two huge mistakes on that play. Firstly, the...I think he was the line judge, came running onto the field, with one arm raised as a spot, and then changed it to a touchdown. I think the ref did not believe that Ben broke the plane, but he was surrounded by other players, when he ran up he saw the ball across the line and changed to a touchdown. Now of course everyone knows, and saw, that Ben, like any player, shifted the ball forward after he was down. The first mistake was that the ref fell for it and signaled a touchdown. Either that or he just didn't want to make the call.

That's what instant replay is for though, and so the referee watched the instant replay and actually got to review the breaking of the plane aspect, which visually the best angle ref, didn't believe he penetrated the goal it seems.

The second mistake was that after he viewed the replay, he didn't explain. No, "As the quarterback was proceeding forward in midair, the ball broke the plane of the goal, therefore it is a touchdown." which if he had done that, there might have been less quibbling. Instead he left it in the air.

Either way though I think the Steelers would have scored. They were 100% during the season on fourth and goals, and you know they would have gone for it.

[ticapnews]

82. Unless they had given the ball to Jerome...

and he fumbled on his way into the end zone...like he did against Indy...

I heard someone say (and I don't recall whom) that the linesman had called it fourth down but reversed himself because he knew if he called it fourth down the play would not be reviewed, but if he called it a TD it would be reviewed, because it was within 2:00 of the half and the coach couldn't challenge the play. I don't know what the rule is about the booth calling for a review of a ball spot/TD but I think that's an awful lot to run through the linesman's mind in those two seconds.

The problem I have with the play is the indecision. He looked pretty sure of himself when he ran onto the field with that one arm raised. Then the second arm came up... You want two things from officials: consistency and authority. You want him to KNOW why he made the call and you don't want to see any doubt or hesitation when he makes it. That's what I saw on that play.

One of my worst memories from high school was a game we lost to our cross-town rivals my senior year when the official gave the other team a goal as time expired. When I asked for an explanation he said, 'The puck was about to cross the line when the buzzer sounded so it's a goal.' I grabbed the rulebook and showed him how he was wrong and he just shrugged and skated away. That memory replayed in my mind as I watched the refs bungle that play on Sunday.

As I posted below, I don't know either way. If the official had come running onto the field with the TD signal, or if he had stuck with his original 4th down call, I don't think we'd be talking about this nearly as much. The fact that he changed his call made it SO much worse.

[Ravenseye]

83. Agreed

As I said the main problems with the result of that play were the hesitation on the part of the ref, along with the lack of explanation. I agree, that if he had come running onto the field immediately signalling a touchdown, and then upon review if the umpire had explained his decision, there'd be far less talking about it.

[RoyGBiv]

21. That is too close to complain ...

The calls in this game were often horrendous. That call was not. It may not have been correct, but given the visual evidence and the rules of the game, the call should have gone the way it did.

Disclaimer : I'm jaded from the OU-Texas Tech game. The final Tech touchdown in that game was not nearly this close, yet it was called a touchdown, and I've suffered under demands that I suck it up and quite whining ever since.

If you want a really stupid call to complain about, move to the tackle that was ruled an illegal block. That was simply a bad interpretation of the rules.

[ticapnews]

76. This thread turned into a kindergarten fight awfully fast

You're pathetic! No, you are!
You need to let it go! No, you do!

God. Grow the phuck up.

It isn't conclusive either way. I have no dog in this fight, but I honestly can't tell if that was a TD or not. What I did see was the linesman running onto the field with one hand extended in the air - signalling the ball was down outside the end zone. After taking a few steps, he raised his other arm and signaled TD. Why did the official change his mind on where he was spotting the ball? I'm not claiming a "conspiracy theory." I'm just wondering what he saw in those moments that changed his mind.

For the casual fan this was a very disappointing game. It was played poorly by both teams, with the exception of a handful of plays. It was probably the worst played Super Bowl since Super Bowl V, which ended with an illegal field goal kick (the kicker's helmet wasn't strapped, but it wasn't called). This was another lousy Super Bowl where the commercials were more memorable than the game itself. The Steelers have every right to feel proud, and I've gotten caught up in the spirit of Jerome Bettis going out like Elway and Jordan (the first time) so I'm happy for him. No one can ever take that away from them. But, for the casual fan, it was disappointing to see the players perform poorly and have the officials make such an impact on the outcome.

[MellowOne]

77. I taped the game

And watched it over and over. He clearly falls on the ball at the one yard line then takes it quickly from under his body and puts it across the line. But as others have pointed out, they would have scored on the next play. But at that point, it was not a touchdown. And I don't have a dog in the hunt so I didn't care who won.

[Ravenseye]

79. Go back to the tape

Watch him in mid air right before he gets hit, as the Seahawks defender makes contact with him. That's when he breaks the plane. Not when he was down on the ground. The Defender's hit pushed him back, he broke the plane before he was on the ground.

[MellowOne]

84. After the play the official starts to rule that it's not a touchdown

Then he runs down to the line then declares it a touchdown? What changed his mind?

[Ravenseye]

85. Fear?

The only thing I can think is that either

a) he was afraid to make 'the wrong call', so he ruled it a touchdown realizing that it would be reviewed with the hope of leaving it up to the replay.

b) He was dumb enough to fall for the standard "Ok i'm down, i'm going to shift the ball forward." move.

Bad move by the ref, but I think the result was correct. It's better that they do that and then review it than stop the play. Look at the Stevens fumble. He caught the ball, took a couple steps while turning upfield, then fumbled. They ruled it an incomplete pass on the field, which wasn't reviewable. If they had let the play run it's course who knows what would have happened. Maybe Chris Hope picks up the ball and returns it for a TD for all we know. Then they could have reviewed it and made the decision to uphold the call on the field, or say it was an incomplete pass.

Who knows.

[fishnfla]

78. Crappy call, crappy play,crappy game, crappy season

The NFL was victimized by shitty officiating all year long. I swear looking at the stats one monday am, 90% of the games had over 15 penalties. Turned on MNF that night saw a seequence of 4 flags in a row, 3 of which gave one team the ball inside the 5.

How Hasselback got flagged for an illegal block while making a tackle is a more perfect example of how fucked up the refs are in the league.

[MellowOne]

86. Ben on Letterman--did anyone else see that

A good friend saw a clip of Ben R on Letterman and he told Dave that he knew he didn't score that TD. It changes nothing but it just goes to show you why "any team on any given Sunday". Know what I mean?

[Ravenseye]

87. Saw it

To be fair he didn't just sit there and say "I didn't score". What he said was more along the lines of "I didn't think I crossed the line, I went over to the sidelines and said I didn't score that TD."

When you're talking about a centimeter or two for a tenth of a second at best, it would be surprising if he had thought "DAMN STRAIGHT I SCORED!" Surprising, and somewhat appalling.

I've seen better replay shots than this one now, and from them I think there is no question the ball crossed the line. Still, as you say they say...Any given Sunday.