Ten players ejected following Knicks-Nuggets brawl

[citizen snips]

NEW YORK (AP) -- The NBA has another ugly scene to recover from. This one involved its leading scorer and happened in its most famous arena.

Denver's Carmelo Anthony and the other nine players on the court at the time were ejected for fighting during a wild brawl between the Nuggets and Knicks, triggered in part by a New York team that felt it was being shown up on its home floor.

Multiple players, including Anthony, threw punches, and New York's Nate Robinson and Denver's J.R. Smith -- fouled hard by Mardy Collins on the play that started the brawl -- flew into the first row of the crowd while fighting during the NBA's scariest scene since Indiana players fought with Detroit fans in 2004.

Smith had a red mark along the left side of his face, but there were no other injuries among the players. No fans were directly involved, even after the fighting spilled into the seats.

more...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basketball/nba/12/16/nuggets.knicks.brawl.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[americanstranger]

1. Bad scene, all around.

You never want to see guys mixing it up like this. Everybody should be made to sit and think about what they did.

'Melo should get at least 10 games. Being the league's highest scorer doesn't give you the right to sucker punch people in the face.

And George Karl's a dick for running up the score. WTF was he thinking - some sort of revenge on behalf of his friend, Larry Brown by humiliating Isaiah?

The game was won, dude. Any other coach (even guys like Riley or Jackson) would have sat down his starters minutes before. Karl should be ashamed of himself.

Fighting sucks, suspend all involved.

- as

[Zech Marquis]

2. I've stopped watching the NBA

after the riot in Detriot 2 seasons ago, I simply lost all interests in the NBA. I remember how ESPN would show people at European football (soccer) matches starting riots and laughing at how "you'll never see anything like that in the USA!"..now this (again). I'll be happy watching the UCLA bruinns for my hoops fix, the NBA is dead to me.

[paulk]

3. penalties have now been handed out -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_nuggets_knicks_brawl

and Stern, once again, proves he's an idiot.

OK - I'm a Nuggets fan... but would Anthony have gotten a 15 game suspension if he wasn't the league's leading scorer?
This is Stern's idea of sending a message, I know - but real justice would have involved a lengthier suspension for Collins, who started this - and it's the 2nd time he's committed a flagrant foul at the end of a (lost) game - and Isiah Thomas - who very likely set the tone for the whole incident - wouldn't have gotten off scot-free like he did.

[americanstranger]

4. I agree that Stern's an idiot, but

I think the $500K per team fine is a tacit admission that the coaches were partly to blame for what happened. Yep, I said it - not coach, but coaches.

I'm a Knick fan and I don't like Thomas in the least - I think he should be fired for spending $400 million bucks in 3 years and not having a thing to show for it - but I think George Karl showed horrible judgment by leaving his starters in as long as he did.

He can talk about the Nugs blowing big leads all he wants, but they were playing the Knicks, for cryin' out loud. Their lead was safe at the 4-minute mark.

Let's get hypothetical here. Let's say that instead of JR Smith, it was Marcus Camby who went down the lane on that shot and was fouled hard. I know from his NYK days that Camby is injury-prone - what woould Karl have to say if Camby got hit and blew a knee out? What if it was Carmelo that got hit in the lane, and he fell and busted the wrist on his shooting hand?

If I was Denver management, I'd sit Karl down and ask him just WTF he was thinking. I don't think he was acting with the team's interest in mind - I think he was more interested in humiliating Thomas, and that's no way to run a ball club.

And while I understand your desire to see Collins get punished a bit harder, at the end of the day he didn't do anything that doesn't happen 100 times in your typical NBA season.

As for Anthony - if he wasn't the league's leading scorer, he would have gotten 20 games. That fight was all but over when he sucker-punched Collins (then ran away, but that's another issue). He should have used his head - but now he's pissed away a good chunk of his career because he went stupid.

- as

[Bluzmann57]

12. Thomas is a piece of crap

I have no ties to North Carolina whatsoever but I have watched Isaiah Thomas in the Big Ten and then as a pro with one of the dirtiest teams ever to play, the Pistons, and then as a coach with the Pacers and Knicks. He was a hot head in every level he's ever been at, but the real reason I dislike him is because he bought a basketball league just to kill it off. The old CBA is what I'm referring to. We had a team here in this area, and it was not NBA level, but there were a lot of good players who passed through the CBA. Thomas bought the entire league, ran it into the ground, and treated it like a stray mongrel dog when people were asking him to help out, since he was the owner. So fuck Isaiah Thomas. The Knicks will always be losers as long as he's in charge. And once he gets fired out there, I hope he never gets another job within basketball again.

[americanstranger]

13. Include the Dolan family while you're at it.

The Knicks will be losers as long as the Dolans are the owners.

They have no idea how to run an NBA team - which is probably why they hired Thomas in the first place.

I posted elsewhere that Thomas has spent $400 million in three years. And the reason why he can get away with destroying the Knicks is because they constitute 1% of the Dolan family business.

What do they care if the team is a laughingstock, as long as they get their cable revenues?

- as

[ProfessorGAC]

We Agree But Disagree

First of all, i don't Stern is an idiot. He RESCUED this league in the 80's and he's not about to see his life's work get trashed by some millionaires who still want to act like street punks. To paraphrase Chris Rock, keepin' it real doesn't mean keepin' it real stupid.

Where we agree, however, is that Melo should not have gotten the highest suspension. That said, i think the 15 games is fine. I do think, though, there are two guys on the Knicks who deserved a longer suspension than Anthony.

I'm tempted to agree that Collins is one of them, but that little puke from the Knicks who attacked the Nugget player from behind deserved at LEAST 5 more games than Anthony. Even more than the hard foul, that is what triggered the melee. If that guy just keeps his nose out of it, there's no brawl. That guy deserved something closer to what Steven Jackson of the Pacers got. (30 games, iirc.)

So, we agree than Anthony should not have been punished most, but we disagree on Stern and whether Melo's penalty is too severe.
The Professor

[paulk]

7. ok, I agree, Stern's not an idiot

But, I don't think he helps himself, or the league, with a judgment that many are seeing as unfair. I could live with the fifteen game suspension if, like you say, both Collins and "that little puke" had gotten penalties commiserate with Anthony's. The Knicks started this, and I'm sorry - to say that the other team deserves to risk life and limb in the paint (as Thomas basically did) because they're kicking your ass on your home court is an embarrassment of an excuse. And I say that with the Knicks having been my favorite team right up through the Ewing era (I'm originally from NY).

I hope Thomas gets his ass canned over this whole thing...

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Well, We Definitely Agree On That Last Thing

Thomas is a punk. He's always been a punk. He's got a chip on his shoulder the size of Idaho, and you'd think after being a millionaire executive for the last several years, he might start feeling he has less "little man" issues to prove. If he got fired over this, i agree with you: Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Well, We Definitely Agree On That Last Thing

Thomas is a punk. He's always been a punk. He's got a chip on his shoulder the size of Idaho, and you'd think after being a millionaire executive for the last several years, he might start feeling he has less "little man" issues to prove. If he got fired over this, i agree with you: Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

6. We Agree But Disagree

First of all, i don't Stern is an idiot. He RESCUED this league in the 80's and he's not about to see his life's work get trashed by some millionaires who still want to act like street punks. To paraphrase Chris Rock, keepin' it real doesn't mean keepin' it real stupid.

Where we agree, however, is that Melo should not have gotten the highest suspension. That said, i think the 15 games is fine. I do think, though, there are two guys on the Knicks who deserved a longer suspension than Anthony.

I'm tempted to agree that Collins is one of them, but that little puke from the Knicks who attacked the Nugget player from behind deserved at LEAST 5 more games than Anthony. Even more than the hard foul, that is what triggered the melee. If that guy just keeps his nose out of it, there's no brawl. That guy deserved something closer to what Steven Jackson of the Pacers got. (30 games, iirc.)

So, we agree than Anthony should not have been punished most, but we disagree on Stern and whether Melo's penalty is too severe.
The Professor

[Captain Hilts]

5. Two reasons I support this: dangers to fans, off-court problems.

Michael Wilbon's article yesterday, correctly, noted that the NBA is held to a different standard than baseball, hockey , etc.

But there are two important differences:

It's easier for a court fight to get into the stands than a fight on the ice and baseball field.

Second, is the NBA's off-court reputation. I don't know about your city, but the Wizards have an arrest record larger than that of the Redskins and Nationals combined. They've cleaned up their act the past year or two, but they got in trouble with the law, a lot.

[BOSSHOG]

8. Watching the melee

I was amazed that onlookers were not hurt. They were just rolling over people and the fans were scattering. One or more could very easily have been seriously hurt.

[Captain Hilts]

11. That's right, the physical vulnerability of basketball fans compared to other sports...

makes it more serious.

Then, you add in the discipline problems of NBA players and the chaos that has taken place on the courts between players and fans in college basketball, and you realize why Stern wants to stop this behavior right here, right now.