See ya, Jersey.

[americanstranger]

Clevo advances. Good for them.

Donyell Marshall drops 5 treys on Jersey, on his birthday.

Take a look at Jersey's lineup one more time. It ain't gonna be there next year.

Jersey's run as a competitive team is over.

- as

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. possibly

I hope Carter goes, he's such a frustrating player to watch. I can see why Toronto fans hate him. Not to say I hate him, but he's just so irritating because you see the things he CAN do, and then you watch him, and he does them - occasionally - but then he thinks he can do everything at once and usually is his own worst enemy.

I don't think Carter will be back. I hope they can trade him for someone like Garnett or at least get a boatload of draft picks from Orlando or Miami or Charlotte.

Kidd might not be back, but only if LA relents and gives up Bynum, which probably wont happen.

Congrats to Cleveland fans, you're team was better. Good luck vs. Detroit, you're gonna need it.

[americanstranger]

2. I always regarded Carter as suspect.

Talk about unrealized potential.

From watching him, he seems so blase about his talent, it almost looks like he could care less. I'm not a Nets fan, but I could imagine that he frustrates the hell out of them.

You think Jefferson's gonna stay? He may want out at this point, IMO.

- as

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. nah

Jefferson is in a good spot right now for two reasons, both of which surround Jason Kidd.

Reason number one is, if Kidd stays, he gets to keep playing with him, and playing with jason kidd is good for any player.

Reason number two is, if Kidd leaves, Jefferson gets to be the number one option on the team, and he can average about 25 ppg, like he was two years ago when Kidd was recovering from knee surgery, and make the all-star team.

I don't think it's that Carter could care less. I think he cares. I just think he doesn't have the desire to be the leader in crunch-time. Of course, he's also never played with a great bigman, which other guards like Wade and Billups and Nash and Kobe have.

[ClusterFreak]

4. Carter is not a leader.

He never has been. And not only that, he's strictly in the Vince Carter business. President and CEO. He and his mother. Alarm bells should have gone off in Jersey the instant that interview he gave to that TV reporter (ESPN?) right after the trade from Toronto. In it, you may remember, he admitted he didn't always give his best when he played for the Raptors. As a Raptor fan, I am very familiar with the Vince Carter Show...wild, spectacular athletic ability and no desire whatsoever to be the go to guy when it counts most. He's a fickle, puzzling individual and I suspect that if he ever ends up on a winning team, it'll be because of the crunch time heroics of other players.

[tiptoe]

5. I remember Carter in his collegiate North Carolina days, teammate of Antawn Jamison (who...

received the majority of the hype their last year there)

I deemed him a "natural athlete", above Jamison in potential, when I witnessed the two of them at NC (with an informational bias towards Jamison).

I was pleasantly surprised when Carter was drafted by the GS Warriors, only to realize later his pickup was part of a larger deal involving Jamison, and the Warriors ultimately would not end up with Vince Carter.

Bummer, from a limited-knowledge-but-intuitive point of view.

I saw Jamison at GS, pre-Nelson. He was "OK" and occasionally phenomenal (e.g. consecutive 50-pt games). He was given a 10-year contract (worth $90mm IIRC). But even seeing the capabilities of Jamison at GS -- i.e. in the NBA -- memories of Vince Carter as a "natural" at NC rated him higher in my mind than Jamison.

Anyway, I eventually lost track of Carter in the Eastern Conference. I have no real appreciation of "Toronto baskeball" and just a "general impression" of NBA *Eastern Conference* style of play...and, so, I really can't assess what may have "gone awry" with the "natural athlete" I saw at NC.

When New Jersey picked up Carter, I expected a great rapport with Jason Kidd (from the SF Bay area, with experience as a HS student practicing with the nearby Run-TMC GS Warriors...and who would be able to engage Carter's "natural" abilities). Although the Nets made the playoffs this year, I think their ultimate elimination (tonight) was due to deficiency in the coaching scheme of the Nets, i.e due to "knowledge-failure" in how to utilize and exploit E.X.P.A.N.S.I.V.E. T.A.L.E.N.T. of the likes of Kidd and Carter (and Jefferson, to a lesser degree). Don Nelson doesn't lack such coaching instincts, and would milk Carter's natural skills by permitting them to 'run free' in a system that panders to individual athletic talents, a system that 'controls' and 'guides' by 'instruction' from the coach and expressed talents of other players, also invited/encouraged to 'run free': Running. Passing. Cutting. Trusting. to the max. (In the finals this year, Detroit will likely be favored to "win it all"...but...despite the Pistons' "maturity" and "experience" and "chemistry" I'll take San Antonio ((who should overcome Utah)) in a "Western NBA-style" vs "Eastern NBA-style" matchup. Detroit hasn't found sufficient 'challenge' in its two Eastern Conf playoff opponents. San Antonio *has* been challenged and 'educated' by the Suns ((and will be educated moreso by Utah (((...a team that was 'tempered' by Don Nelson's young, "controlled-chaos-but-worn-and-injury-hampered-at-season's-end" Golden State Warriors, yet 'still-confined' somewhat by Jerry Sloan's staid style, strategy and rote tactics ((((notwithstanding the self-directed, on-a-mission, 'wild-card' Kirilenko)))) ))) )) ).

Vince Carter (not allowing for age) belongs on a "high-energy" Western Conf NBA team, on a fast-paced Suns/Warriors-style offense: His energies are expansive -- unlike what is "sufficient to 'get by'" in the Eastern Conference NBA -- and need be unbottled to make him a better-performing player. (Jason Kidd, too!) (Richard Jefferson, too!!)

(Just MHO)

[glarius]

6. I too watched Carter when he was with the Raptors and am very familiar

with him "playing hard if he was in the mood." I can picture him often curled up in a fetal position after being "injured", and then playing on...apparently unimpaired, after being helped off the court. I remember in 2001, the Raptors were about to play the seventh game in the first round of the playoffs and Vince decided he had to fly to his college graduation for the ceremonies, which were on the same day as the game. He flew down, attended his ceremonies, and flew back to play in the game. The Raptors lost.....Carter missing the final shot which would have given the game to the Raptors. The result may have been the same, whether he skipped out or not.....we'll never know. The thing is, Vince Carter always puts Vince Carter first. Perhaps he comes by it naturally....I also remember his mother making a fuss because she didn't like the spot the Raptors organization had given her to park her car. From my observations of Vince Carter....he's not there when it matters!

[ClusterFreak]

7. I think no matter where Carter plays....

...he'll be only a periodic high energy performer. Just as he has been his entire career, most notably in the last three or four years. He'll continue to play in spurts like a demon, and also like a disinterested bystander. On the Suns or some other high octane offensive-minded team, my guess is Carter will remain high energy only as long as other teammates are willing to shoulder the burden of leadership on the floor. He wants none of it. Never has. I remember once in Toronto, a teammate (Charles Oakley?) said Vince was being counted on to be a leader. Vince responded that he wasn't one, and that you win and lose as a team. Something along those lines anyway. Maybe one day he'll learn to accept the leadership responsibility that comes with such great raw talent. Time will tell. I wouldn't bet on it though, not from what I've seen so far anyway.