Kurt Angle turns down 7 figure MMA deal from Bodog

[Wetzelbill]

http://www.pwheadlines.com/TNA/Kurt_Angle_Turns_Down_Seven-Figure_MMA_Deal.shtml

[MessiahRp]

1. For all Angle's talk and bravado

I am at the point where I think he's afraid of MMA. Afraid of the limitations his neck injury has given him, afraid of his striking skills (let's face it, worked punches in wrestling are not the same), afraid of being embarrassed and shown up in a cage.

I don't blame him but he shoots his mouth off and makes outrageous, ridiculously over the top claims about his career, his ability... only Hulk Hogan seems more detached from reality.

And Brock is relatively healthy, he would destroy Kurt. Let's also not forget the little shoot Angle had on Smackdown with the Tough Enough guys when Puder came in with his MMA skills and locked Angle into a submission he had to roll on top of Puder and get a fast three from the ref to escape from. That was not a work and Angle was humiliated by it.

Rp

[Wetzelbill]

2. that Puder thing was a joke though

He kicked Puder's ass. Puder couldn't wrestle with Kurt so he tried a cheap shot kimura and got pinned. They weren't submission wrestling, they were just wrestling and Puder tried to pull a fast one. Kurt wasn't humiliated, he was pissed off about it.

Kurt says he beat Brock when they wrestled behind closed doors, everybody else says he beat Brock, and Brock says that he beat Kurt. I don't know who to believe on that one though. Kurts a lot better, but Brock's size is a big advantage. Kurt has a history of beating on big guys like that. Sylvester Terkay was probably a better wrestler than Brock, and Kurt beat him.

Kurt has a major problem with talking. But not about his career or his ability. That's legit, probably understated. He's a special athlete, he has abilities that other wrestlers don't have. It's unbelievable. He's as gifted a wrestler that has ever walked the earth, like as good as Randy or Mark Coleman are, Angle could tech those guys to this day. He retired almost all the big wrestlers like Coleman and Kerr and sent them to MMA he was so much better. His problem is he keeps talking about MMA but never gets in and does it. He should either compete or shut up at this point, because it's getting old, you know?

[MessiahRp]

3. Angle may be a great wrestler, but that counts for little in MMA these days

There are no pinfalls in MMA and I don't see Angle pulling out the submissions or standing up well enough to survive against top talent MMA guys.

And yes, Puder did humiliate him because Angle's incredibly defensive about it to this day. He needed a WWE referee to bail him out when he was shooting on everyone else and he went backstage looking weaker for it.

I don't care if he can out wrestle Brock in a college wrestling match... different rules and techniques apply to MMA which Kurt is not used to.

Plus I don't think you're accounting for Kurt's neck injuries. The guy is on so many drugs now (part of why WWE let him go - painkillers/steroids) that he may not be able to pass the Athletic Commission's drug test, let alone pass a physical that says his neck is okay to go.

Rp

[Wetzelbill]

4. I wouldn't say it counts for little

Rashad Evans, for example, was virtually a wrestler until recently. So was Josh Koscheck. Koscheck wiped the floor with Chris Leben using only wrestling, and Leben was a pretty solid guy with like a 15 and 1 record at the time. The ability to take somebody down almost at will is a serious skill to have, not all that defensible even by the best guys. Sure there is more to the game, but a good wrestler like an Evans or a Koscheck can the transition easier and be more successful than say a world class striker like Stefan Leko, because wrestling is such a controlling skill. Lesnar never did anything but wrestle in his first fight too. He took the guy down and passed the guard than cuffed the guy until it was stopped. Kurt probably would have done the same, at this point, we know little about what Lesnar is actually capable of other than wrestling, it's still speculation. His stance looked stiff, he was back on his heels and he had his chin up, but he still just bulled in and took the guy down. It wasn't like he stood up and traded punches and boxed with the guy at all, all we know is pretty much what we expected and that's that Brock is a physical animal, who is an outstanding wrestler, and could probably take guys down and maul them until they are beat. As far as we know, Kurt would do the same thing, except he's light years better at taking people down as Brock and he's not as big.

Kurt might be defensive because it's always brought up, but not because Puder really did anything to him. I've watched it a million times. Plus, I'm an internationally competitive wrestler and I know submissions too. My younger brother is an MMA fighter, I've been around this stuff forever. The bottom line is they were having a wrestling match, Puder tied up and stalled with Kurt, got pushed into the ropes and was about to get taken down when he grabbed a kimura and got pinned. The ref didn't bail Kurt out, he just called the pinfall. Puder wasn't in guard and didn't have the leverage to submit Kurt, it may have wrenched his arm somewhat, but nothing was really there. He was basically holding Kurt's arm out and was hardly hyperextending long enough or far enough to get a submission. What Puder did, would almost be like a guy throwing a punch in a wrestling match than bragging around to people how tough he was. When they stood up, Kurt got into his face and Puder just took what Kurt was saying, then slinked away. he didn't try to get more or anything. He's basically blew the incident up and has tried to make a name off of it since. It's hardly admirable.

[MessiahRp]

6. Koscheck is not all that good...

Of course his biggest wins were against the excessively overrated Leben (his record is against chumps and he's hyped up because of TUF) and the win against Diego Sanchez who didn't seem like the same fighter in that fight... not to mention it was a horrible fight and Koscheck is one of the least exciting fighters on the planet.

I still think Angle would get tapped by the top tier MMA guys, especially a guy like Couture, who while he has a wrestling background, diversified enough to be dangerous in MMA. I'm not sold on the idea that Angle can do this.

Rp

[Wetzelbill]

8. Koscheck can win because he has a dominant skill

but he overall isn't all that good. He did beat Diego and that was a horrible fight for sure. Problem for Diego is he couldn't take Koscheck down to save his life, most people can't, so Koscheck can dictate a fight from that perspective. In this case, he bored everybody to death. Like Drew Fickett was getting wiped all over the ring in the Koscheck fight and he ended up winning by submission. That's the danger for a wrestler they can get caught by a reasonably slick guy.

I'm not sold on how good Angle could be either, for all we know the guy could have a glass jaw, but he does have a dominant skill. And that skill has to be respected. Randy might be able to beat Kurt in an MMA fight, in fact, he probably could at this point. But Randy also basically is a wrestler and uses that in a fight and Randy couldn't outwrestle Kurt even in a fight. Not even close, it's just that Kurt is that far above everyone else. Like Hughes is a dominant wrestler in MMA. Mark Coleman too. Those guys are not even on Kurt's level. Randy would have to not fight the same fight that he did against Mike Van Arsdale for example. Van Arsdale is a world class wrestler, maybe even slightly better than Randy, but Randy started to outwrestle him after a while and then finally ended up beating him. I doubt he could use that strategy against Kurt. He'd have to dirty box and stuff like that, because if he gets sucked into a wrestling game, he'd get taken down and roughed up.

Also, Kurt does do some MMA training. He has been for awhile, he just hasn't done so in a major camp or anything. However, it's not like he's some chump who hasn't learned anything, he's done some training. What he needs to do is take time off and train MMA full-time for 6 months or so at least, so he can concentrate on it, as opposed to just picking up on things while he has a day job. But we just really don't know what he has until he gets in and does it. And as of yet, he's mainly just talked about it.

[chicagomd]

9. What I don't

get is that both Hughes and Franklin got "warm-up" fights before they got a shot at the belt again. (Granted Franklin had to get past Okami).

GSP gets Koscheck, who you could argue is in the running for a title shot with one or two more wins anyway. Seems like a bad fight for GSP: If he wins, he gets a title shot which you could argue he deserved anyway, if he looses he is going to have to fight his way up a very deep division.

[TroubleMan]

5. Bodog's owner is just tossing around money like nothing

I heard he offered Fedor over a million for an exclusive contract.

[MessiahRp]

7. He's losing money hand over fist on this BodogFight thing

Of course having your fights in Russia or Costa Rica is not exactly a way to bring your product to the masses, but the only marketable fighter they have is Fedor.

That makes me wonder how much other groups like IFL, EliteXC, Bodog, etc. can do against UFC who clearly has the name/talent edge. When one group has 1-2 names and another has 1 or 2 names... it makes it hard to develop the fights that the audience would want to see and makes it harder to get people to want to follow your group.

If there was one group that had the combined talent pool of everyone NOT in UFC and they were taking on UFC (clearly EliteXC is in the best position with their Showtime deal) head to head you could make a serious case for a competitor similar to the WWF-WCW war of the 90s. But as it stands the talent is spread too thin amongst too many organizations to really compete with UFC and make a dent in their success.

Even when EliteXC ran with K1 Strikeforce they had very few names on the card that were recognizable and two of the three were incredibly over the hill and facing each other in a fight that bored the crowd to tears.

Rp