Coommunity College Transfer Mess

[MountainLaurel]

Weren't community colleges supposed to be the great cure for all of those unemployed millions out there, according to the Shrub? Guess that plan isn't gonna work out so well after all.

Like many community college students, Josie Showers saw her classes at Jefferson Community and Technical College in Louisville as the first step toward a four-year degree. She was among the nearly half of American students who start college in two-year community schools. They are told if they work hard, their state's four-year colleges will be happy to accept them as transfers and cheer them on to graduation. But Showers, like many others, discovered those four-year schools are not as helpful as she had been led to believe.

After she transferred to the University of Louisville as a 27-year-old political science major, she was told she could not get her bachelor's degree until she had taken the university's pre-algebra class. That made no sense to her. She had already taken an algebra course, learning concepts more advanced than pre-algebra, at her community college. Sorry, she was told. Rules are rules. That kind of red tape cost her an extra semester and $4,000 before she could graduate.

This is only one of several revelations in an investigative report on the community college transfer system by Louisville Courier-Journal reporter Nancy C. Rodriguez, made possible by a fellowship from the Hechinger Institute on Education and the Media at Teachers College, Columbia University. I was Rodriguez's adviser on the project, but I did not contribute much. She is a first-class reporter who had already set up all the interviews and asked all the good questions before I got involved. All I can do is encourage others to read her groundbreaking work, and that of the other fellows and associates who participated in the "Covering America, Covering Community Colleges" project, available at this Web site.
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Most education reporters, particularly myself, do a lousy job covering communities colleges. I knew I had missed many good stories, but I didn't know how good until I saw what Rodriguez and the other Hechinger participants produced. This is particularly shameful in my case because my parents both attended community colleges and my brother spent most of his career working at one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/02/AR2008060200545.html

[leftofcool]

1. Junior Colleges are pretty much a joke

unless you are not going to continue on to a 4 year college. Most 4 year colleges won't accept all credits earned at a junior college. Always check with the university to plan to attend to make sure your credits will be good and that most will transfer.

[Warpy]

4. The problem is the "semester hour" crap

and the fact that a lot of 2 year schools use "trimesters" so working students can squeeze more into a year.

4 year schools have needed to deal with this for a very long time and have consistently failed.

I've always thought that a proficiency test would solve the "semester hour" problem and allow students credit for 2 year school classes, but I guess that makes too much sense for administrators who want students to spend more money repeating classes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. They accepted all of mine

Of course that was back in the dark ages when we still had reasonable student loans. And my tuition at a state 4 year university was only $298 per semester. LOL

[SomeGuyInEagan]

8. Transferrability is up to the receiving institution ...

... always has been (and can change as personal changes, so get it in writing if a school says they will accept x number of transfer credits).

I work in higher education, have worked at both community colleges and universities. I know of four-year schools (public and private) whose courses will not transfer easily or in whole to other four-year schools are a number of reasons. I also know of two-year schools where students can and do transfer credits easily to four-year schools.

As for your "junior colleges are pretty much a joke" comment ... it varies greatly. Some are fantastic, some are diploma mills. Just as some four-year colleges and universities are fantastic, some are diploma mills.

[litlady]

12. Ditto, schools are varied in quality...

I have taught at the community college and public university. How good these schools are varies depending on many factors. Most schools have an articulation agreement or a predetermined course plan to transfer and most community colleges have transfer centers that make these requirements clear. Some community college have fast-track programs for particular four year universities near them. Having attended community college, public university, and private university, I can say I have had good and bad teachers and services at every school I have attended. But I can also say that community colleges have many dedicated teachers that are not as obsessed with their publication agendas and enjoy teaching. The basic community college purpose of "cheap education for all" is essential! So many people only decide on careers and higher education because the community college exists.

[GaYellowDawg]

9. Well, that's bullshit.

I'm in a PhD program right now and my start was in a junior college. What you have to do is to take a university parallel program. Most junior colleges have a working relationship with four-year colleges in-state. If you get your associate's degree, everything transfers, and that's the way it worked out for me.

There are a lot of good teachers and classes at the junior college level. Fuck you and your elitist attitude.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. I didn't read the entire article, but why didn't they give Ms. Showers

the option to test out of the pre-algebra class since she had taken more advanced algebra classes at the Community College?

[Warpy]

3. I was told that I needed to have taken high school algebra

and chemistry in the two years prior to entering nursing school, courses the program offered as pre nursing but which would slow my progress.

I looked into the CLEP program and discovered only college level algebra and chemistry. I took them 10 days later and passed.

The admissions people were impressed and let me into the program late and over the limit.

Ask them whether they would waive the requirement if you sat the CLEP exam. I won't tell you it's an easy one, it isn't. However, it might save you a semester of expensive boredom.

Those exams saved me a lot of expensive boredom in nursing school.

[King Bacon Fat]

5. Having attended a community college...

I was rather fortunate. One university was willing to take 100% of the courses that I took and received at least a C in. So I grudgingly went to that one university.

Other universities had different courses that they would and would not take from the community college. I can completely understand the frustration that anybody has about community colleges.

[AwakeAtLast]

6. I think it depends on the community college

There are some in my state that are excellent, some that are glorified high schools. That's why you have to check with the four year schools to see what they accept.

[Nikia]

10. What kind of 4 year college requires a prealgebra class?

I took that in seventh grade.
I suppose that a four year state college that accepts everyone might offer it as a remedial class or require that everyone passes out of it or takes a more advanced class before graduating from college. I just don't understand why they would require a class that the majority of students should have been able to pass out of before graduating from high school or passing the GED.

[geek_sabre]

13. This is Louisville we're talking about

The K-12 school system as a whole (sadly, even some private schools) is lacking, to say the least, particularly in math and science. Though many students take pre-algebra, they never learn the concepts, and are allowed to mosey through higher courses to graduate. I assume U of L gives a math placement test, to determine which math course to take. My guess is she never took a placement test at JCTC (not sure if they have one). U of L probably gave her a math placement test, and she probably didn't score high enough on the pre-algebra portion. The article doesn't give much information.

[noamnety]

11. I had the opposite problem

I wanted to take a sign language class at a local community college quite some time ago. I already had a B.A. and some graduate credits. The community college initially refused to let me enroll ... because I dropped out of high school. They tried to make me go back and get a GED before I could take their crappy freshman course.

[tismyself]

14. always check

I worked in a community college for years. Even if there is an articulation agreement with a 4 year school, check it out first and not with the community college.