I could have sworn I recently read a report on DU about how US schools lag behind

[intheflow]

other Western countries in math education. Am I remembering that correctly? And if so, where can I find a cite-able source for it?

Any help is appreciated. This info will be used to shut up my republican mother who thinks public education has more than enough funding--and in fact should be cut.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. You are correct, problem is I can't think of quotable sources

and it is just not only math, but science and even basic English

Now to play devil's advocate it just not only about funding

We need a federal program. PERIOD... We need a FEDERAL STANDARD, and no, NCLB is not the model.

Rather, either England or Germany, period

[Catshrink]

2. Here are some links

This shows them keeping up:

http://7thspace.com/headlines/299694/american_students_show_steady_progress_in_math_rank_high_in_international_education_comparison_timss.html

From U Mich. that does discuss lagging:

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/li.356/math_education

Another one:

http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/hill/papers/math4all.html

There's enough opinion and discussion "out there" to support any position about whether American schools lag or lead.

[intheflow]

4. Thanks for the links.

But two aren't citable, and the other is fairly old. The real irony with my mother is that she's crazy-academic, from the elite university model (think the snootiest of Ivy Leaguers). So of those, she might accept the UMich link, but the other two, not so much since it's outdated and the new . I'd love to find a NY Times/LA Times/Chicago Tribune/etc. link. Or an actual study by Harvard or another so-called "top" school. Isn't it sad I have to be this rigorous just to discuss politics in my family? :crazy:

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. I think the TIMSS ('7thspace' link) comparison is as good as you'll get

"The project is coordinated by the International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement and the International Study Center at Boston College". The (Republican, at the time) government paid attention to it. Would finding a link from a Boston College site help?

The other major international comparison I can find (a year older than TIMSS - which was published at the end of 2008, about a 2007 comparison) is PISA:

This report summarizes the performance of U.S. students on the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), comparing the scores of U.S. 15-year-old students in science and mathematics literacy to the scores of their peers internationally in 2006. PISA, first implemented in 2000, is sponsored by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), an intergovernmental agency of 30 member countries. In 2006, fifty-seven jurisdictions participated in PISA, including 30 OECD jurisdictions and 27 non-OECD jurisdictions. The results show the average combined science literacy scale score for U.S. students to be lower than the OECD average. U.S. students scored lower on science literacy than their peers in 16 of the other 29 OECD jurisdictions and 6 of the 27 non-OECD jurisdictions. Twenty-two jurisdictions (5 OECD jurisdictions and 17 non-OECD jurisdictions) reported lower scores compared to the United States in science literacy. On the mathematics literacy scale, U.S. students scored lower than the OECD average. Thirty-one jurisdictions (23 OECD jurisdictions and 8 non-OECD jurisdictions) scored higher on average, than the United States in mathematics literacy in 2006. In contrast, 20 jurisdictions (4 OECD jurisdictions and 16 non-OECD jurisdictions) scored lower than the United States in mathematics literacy in 2006. Differences in student performance based on the selected student characteristics of sex and race/ethnicity are also examined. Following the presentation of results, a technical appendix describes the study design, data collection, and analysis procedures that guided the administration of PISA 2006 in the United States and in the other participating jurisdictions.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2008016

[intheflow]

8. Thanks, m_v!

I found a link on the Dept. of Ed. to the TIMSS report in .pdf and it was all gibberish to me--lots of explanation of how they got the data and what methods they used to evaluate it, but I couldn't cut through that bs to find the actual results. This is very helpful! :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. It's an invalid comparison

I hate this talking point!!

It is invalid to compare our kids' achievement to other countries. We test ALL our kids; most other countries only test their college bound kids. Plus remember what you learned in statistics class. Unless both groups are tested under the same conditions and given the same test, it is invalid to compare them.

We absolutely MUST stop making this comparison. Please.

[intheflow]

5. Well, instead of comparing us to other countries,

how are our academic standards preparing our students for our workforce and/or colleges? That's really what I'm looking for: the answer to if our children are being prepared to be productive citizens.
(Productive being relative, but in this case, it means being competent members of the workforce.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Yes that would be a better focus

I am not sure where you could find that. Maybe college admission offices?