About to enroll at Univ of Phoenix...

[opiate69]

going to try to get an AA in IT. Anybody have any insight into whether it's worth the effort?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Just because I'm curious,

and a product of traditional education, is that the online school?

Why that, and not a traditional community college?

[opiate69]

2. Yep..the online one..

And, I tried the traditional C.C route a few years back.. simply tooooo much trying to work, play in a band and have a family while going there (and I'm not willing to sacrifice playing music.. it's what I do, ya know?).. I'm in a job now where I have plenty of free time to hook up to the internet and spend easily 4-6 hours a day working on school stuff.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. OK, but

if you have 4-6 hours a day to work on school stuff, why online?

Why not traditional school, which probably wouldn't take up that much time a day, depending on your course load?

[opiate69]

10. because it's 4-6 hours a day at work.. and hell if I'm gonna quit my job in this economy

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. Wait -

you'll be studying at work?

Doing two things at once?

What kind of "work"? If I may ask................

[opiate69]

12. I'll PM it to you..

[Tangerine LaBamba]

14. You don't have to -

I'm just always curious............

[SheilaT]

19. WHAT is the job you have that gives you

4-6 hours of free time every day? I want that job.

I don't know anything about the University of Phoenix, but I do understand that DeVry is well respected. In the somewhat distant past I've known people who graduated from DeVry in computer technology and they were very competent at what they did.

[opiate69]

20. let's just say...

I'm a shipping professional, there's only 2 of us at our location and we're very efficient when it comes to getting orders out. A big portion of my say is spent waiting for carriers/customers to pick up.

[The empressof all]

3. I'd also check out the local community colleges

They would be much cheaper and most of them now offer on line classes as well. So even if they aren't that local you still may be able to take classes. Some even offer week end programs. If you get your credits from the community college system in your state it will be easier to transfer the credits to your State U when you want to go for your BA....and you'll save enough in tuition to pay for another two years. Look into your State Universities as well. Most of them offer classes on line now

[noamnety]

21. There are a lot of colleges offering online classes now, yes.

When I was first looking into it in the 90s I had a heck of a time finding anything. Now that I'm finished, even the traditional schools around here are starting to offer more of their full degree programs online. UofP is one of the few aggressively marketing their online programs so sometimes it seems like they are the only option, but it is worth checking what else is out there and comparing costs.

[Jeep789]

4. Plenty of unemployed IT professionals right now

with higher degrees.

[opiate69]

5. True.. although, it's gonna take me the better part of 2 years to finish..

And damn, this job market better friggin well turn around before then.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. That's not what I hear from my IT friends -

that market's staying flat. Overload of professionals, even those with graduate degrees.

If I were in your spot right now, I honestly don't know what career I'd pursue. The world right now looks like there are NO jobs at all, and I can't see anything except bankruptcy lawyers and foreclosure specialists, along with the people who clean out abandoned houses, thriving.

But, whatever you choose, I wish you luck...............

[uberblonde]

8. I used to be an admissions rep at one of those schools...

Unless it's something that results in earning multiple Microsoft certs, I wouldn't do. Go back to community college, like everyone else is saying.

[Jeep789]

15. 2 year medical technology certification would probably

be your best bet right now.

[Sanity Claws]

9. University of Phoenix is not well respected

I taught one semester for U of P in Seattle and wouldn't do it again.
The textbook for my class was terrible; it was chosen because U of P had some deal with the publisher in which it could put its own cover on the book -- I wasn't clear on it but it sounded like the book was selected for kickback reasons, not for academic worth.
Unlike most educational institutions, U of P is a for-profit school. Its mission is to make money for its shareholders, not educate the public.
Also, they pay teachers crap. We were paid for class time only but spent at least three times that much time in preparing for class and grading papers. I can't imagine they keep quality instructors for so little pay.
Finally, I did not think very highly of my students. Most were not doing college level work.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. Gotta love DU -

look at the information you got here, just from one simple query (a smart thing to do, by the way)!

Even a former faculty member.

DU never ceases to amaze me.......................

[opiate69]

17. no doubt.. I could spend all night individually thanking everyone for weighing in..

however I hope a general thanks will suffice lol.. gotta get dinner going for the kids and all. So thanks to all who've replied, and thanks in advance to all who may yet reply. You've given me a bit to ponder.

[Catshrink]

16. It's a diploma mill and very expensive.

Try a community college that offers classes online. Even if you must pay out of state tuition you'll be ahead over the cost of UofP. Check out Rio Salado Community College in Arizona for starters. There may be one near you where you can get instate tuition. I like Rio, it has good programs, courses start every two weeks. It's a good deal.

http://www.riosalado.edu/Pages/default.aspx

[noamnety]

18. I have a degree from UofP

(and I have a BA from a more traditional school). I think the decision to go with an online school or a community college comes down to your learning style. I know two people who hated online classes, and two who loved them (myself included). The two of us who liked them tended to be introverts and very comfortable with forums in general. The two who hated it were more outgoing face-to-face people persons. (hope that phrasing makes sense)

I disagree with the folks claiming it's a diploma mill - I spent a lot of time on homework, did a lot of research, wrote a lot of papers, and in discussions with people who completed the same program in brick and mortar schools, it was clear that the same concepts they were learning (that they were SURE were unique to their programs) were the same concepts I got in my UofP classes. The only classes I really did not like or appreciate were an intro class that was mandatory and geared toward people who couldn't find their way around the online forum (it would have been better as a noncredit orientation, not a class), and a statistics class that proved to be incomprehensible, and my husband the engineer with a background in calculus had to coach me through that or I am not sure what I would have done. I shed some tears over that class.

Going back to learning styles, if you do better listening to people lecture, you'll do better in a community college. If you do better reading for comprehension, the online school might be better for you. There's no right answer that fits everyone. I know that I tend to tune out lecturers after a while and zone out during staff meetings, so a real classroom isn't the best way for me to learn. In the cost, figure in commuting costs. For my program, there were no local colleges that offered it at a better price, so that wasn't a determining factor.

As for teachers, I had mostly good ones, and a couple that were awful. A couple were great, and I ended up corresponding with them briefly afterwards. In one class, I ended up corresponding with one of the primary people we had read about in our textbook and a recognized expert in our field - that was kind of exciting. The students - some were great and I miss them. Some I learned a lot from. Some made me wonder how they got into the program - and how they hadn't flunked out yet.

[Sanity Claws]

22. Learning same concepts

I'm not surprised that you are learning the same concepts as someone in a different school. However, UofP awards more credit than warranted for the materials. So while you may learn the same basic concepts, you don't get into the details as much.
I base this on teaching one class; we couldn't cover the materials because we had too little class time.

[noamnety]

23. "covering" the materials

I've done a lot of college classes in a variety of ways. Residential college living in a dorm (2 separate schools), 2 community colleges, two online programs. I have a lot of grounds for comparison of course loads.

For studio arts and language classes, being there in person is ideal either because of the hands on transfer of skills or the language interaction.

For the others, it really didn't matter much to me. I had some community college classes where the level of work assigned was so low that it was a joke, and I was painfully aware that they were teaching down to meet the abilities of 18 year olds who didn't have study skills yet. I could drift off during the actual classes (and did), but as long as I turned in 2 or 3 short papers during the semester I'd get an A. (And I had other classes that were great.)

If a lot of material was given in a course but as a teacher you didn't personally "cover" it, what does that mean? That you didn't reiterate what was already in the text? That relates back to learning styles. I think some teachers believe they have to restate everything in the text for students to learn it and to feel like they are doing their jobs properly. For those of us who read and comprehend, sitting in the lectures while the teacher tells us what we just read is painful, and it's frustrating that that's the model of education that is so often forced on us. Also, for those who tend not to speak up in public discussions or need extra time to formulate their thoughts, the online format seems to work best for class participation.

For other students who are less independent or who do better getting information aurally, it's probably helpful because they may not have done the reading at all, or they may not retain it from reading. Like I said above, people I know seem 50-50 split on what works best for them. (Yet the people who learn best from lectures seem oddly convinced that everyone learns best the same way that they do.)

[Sanity Claws]

24. Covering the materials

My statement was based on my personal experience.
As I mentioned above, the text was not very good. It was not clearly written. I practiced in the area for about 10 years at the time I taught the class and I had to read the materials several times to figure out what the book was trying to say. I sincerely doubt anyone in the class got the content of the class from the text.

In fact, I gave an open book exam at the end. Instead of looking through the text for answers, at least two students looked through other books on the subject.

Just one other thing on UofP, I think the original poster should take a look at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=362&topic_id=776

This is not the first time I've heard that employers look at UofP resumes negatively.

[noamnety]

25. I question some of the logic in the thread you linked to.

"The problem is with for-profit schools more than whether the degree is online or in class."

The problem is with private colleges? Doesn't that include Yale, Duke, Princeton, Harvard, MIT?

They also made a comment about typos on resumes - those are very widespread and I believe it reveals more about the applicant than the school they went to. The admission requirements for community college - which many are pushing as superior to online classes - don't exclude people who make typos or people with weak spelling skills.

People who graduate from the "best" schools include folks like Bush.

People judging resumes also look down on community colleges as compared to places like MIT.

In other words, anyone judging a resume positively or negatively based on their own prejudices rather than the applicants' knowledge, skills and experiences does it at their own peril. Does it happen? Sure, they judge resumes based on all kinds of prejudices, including if the candidate's name sounds "too black." That's not a statement about the candidate or their education, it's a statement about the hiring person's prejudices. If the candidate is a weak candidate, they'll be weak no matter which school they attended, and a good interviewer will be able to weed that out.

[Sanity Claws]

26. For-profit schools

UofP is a for-profit school. It has shareholders and it exists to make profits for the owners.

A for-profit school is not the same as a private university. The private universities you cited are nonprofits; they do not have owners and do not make profits.
A nonprofit may charge fees for its services but the fees do not result in profits. Money that comes in is used for the purposes for which the entity was incorporated as a nonprofit. The private universities are created for educational purposes.

I don't know anything about the poster to whom I linked. I know that I actually liked community college graduates, particularly ones who had a certificate from the community college. With the certificate, I knew they were informed on the subject matter for which I was hiring them. (I had a small office with just one employee.) Whenever I saw a resume with typos, no matter where the applicant came from, I disregarded the applicant. I don't consider that "prejudice." My job involved a lot of typing and proofing and if they were unable to proof their own resumes adequately, then they were not able to do the job.

However, if I were hiring an engineer straight out of school, I definitely would prefer an MIT graduate than a community college graduate. I don't that's "prejudice." It is a fact that the entrance and graduate requirements of MIT are much greater than a community college. Once the person has accumulated several years of experience, I would look more closely at the work since graduation before making a determination as to who to call for an interview.

[noamnety]

27. I didn't mean to imply that judging candidates on typos

was prejudiced.

I meant that if a candidate has a clean resume but you deduce that they are the kind of person who would make typos - despite seeing no evidence of it - based on what college they attended, that would be prejudiced.

What I find especially odd - and I don't know what to make of it - is that some people are claiming it is a diploma mill even though it actually has lower graduation rates than traditional schools. A number of people who started my program with my dropped out citing stress and overworking, and a few people graduated with me who started earlier because they had to repeat some classes that they failed on the first attempt. Mostly I suspect that people who haven't done an online class don't realize that it takes some discipline to pace yourself, and when you are doing a distance class, the discipline and motivation has to be intrinsic - not based on the fear of showing up to class unprepared and being called out for it.

I don't believe funding style is a valid test of the quality of the teaching that goes on. Just as an example in my field, The School of Visual Arts in New York has a great reputation, and is ranked by US News as one of the best grad programs for fine arts. It's one of the best in the country. And it's a for profit school.

[2Design]

28. Community college best for hands on and lower cost

U of P is not widely accepted in the market place. They have a ton of work but it is busy work. Lots of interaction and online discussion

Community college find the right instructor who really knows the stuff - for hard classes pick the full timers, for easier classes the adjuncts are sometimes right since they are measured more on evaluations and passing students.

Community College is real hands on and not as much theory - you can really get a handle on your course work

[litlady]

29. I agree with this (as an instructor)...

U of P is much more expensive than the community college route. If I had a choice, I would certainly go with a community college that has online classes. Average price of a c.c. is $20-90 a unit and that is far cheaper than any for-profit institution.

As to the prestige, U of P is not as well respected but people can argue all day about which school is better than another. What really matters is if it is accredited. Some for-profits schools are and some are not and it is important to look at which ones in your area are. If it is not accredited, many jobs will not accept your degree. Some U of P's are accredited and some are not (accreditation is done regionally and sometimes also by field).

As a teacher, my resume is seen as less credible if I work at a for-profit because to some institutions that undermines the purpose of education. As the former U of P teacher mentioned, she was handed the textbook she needed to use and found it inferior. Most for-profit institutions give the teacher the material that is to be covered including ITT and Devry. That means one negative thing for teachers, and that is less academic freedom, a core principle in higher education. But it also means one positive thing for students, and that is consistency. Most students in a specific subject will learn the same things, though whether that is a positive is up to you.

Another aspect to consider is who the teachers are. At a community college or state college, a specific degree level and experience is required by law. In my state and field, anyone teaching must possess an accredited Master's degree and a year of teaching experience minimum. At private institutions and for-profits, these standards will vary (some above and some below).

My final thought is important to consider as well: once you get your first career position, the name of the institution on the certificate is not likely to matter. In some professions, the prestige of the institutions attended will always matter. But in so many others, it never will. So I would go for the (accredited) program that suits your needs and lifestyle best. But as noted, if cost is a consideration, c.c.'s are best. I have both taken and taught online classes and while they are more impersonal, they are nonetheless effective.