Teacher unions challenged in unprecedented face-off

[FBaggins]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/central_falls_turmoil_02-28-10_TQHGS9N_v292.38b0e26.html

The article is worth a read, but the part I found interesting was:

“No one anticipated this. I’m not sure even the Obama administration anticipated that as a result of their regulations, there would be mass firings,” said Marcia Reback, president of the Rhode Island Federation of Teachers. “I think this resonates with teachers across the country. Everyone looks at this as establishing a national precedent.”

I find that statement unbelievable. How do you look at a program where three of the four options result in firing every teacher... and the 4th involved giving the administration an easier path to fire whoever it wants (up to and including everyone)... and say that you don't think they anticipated mass firings?

[Xipe Totec]

1. The futures of 800 students hang in the balance

Nearly all of them are poor. Many speak languages other than English at home.

Only 1 in 10 can perform the math expected of them. Just 55 percent read at grade level. More than half drop out, ill-equipped for good jobs or the opportunity to better their lot.

How is that in any way due to teacher performance?

[FBaggins]

3. It certainly isn't all due to teachers...

...but I think it's a dangerously slippery slope to say "how is that in any way due to teacher performance?"

Surely teachers have SOME impact on whether students can "perform the math expected of them."

We get into a problem when it appears that we want to take credit for any success but shift blame for any failure.

[Xipe Totec]

7. Consider this

800 students have been left without any teachers whatsoever.

And every teacher in New England knows that Central Falls is a high risk assignment, with little upside rewards. They are going to have a hard time filling those positions again, period.

I've been to Central Falls. A sizeable portion of the population is Spanish speaking. Another sizeable chunk speaks Portuguese.

Teachers do have some impact on whether students can "perform the math expected of them". But you have to cross the language barrier too.

Let me ask you this simple math question: Qual es el producto de multiplicar ocho por cinco y añadir tres?

This is a simple math problem that any fifth grader should be able to perform.



If anything, we should be helping these teachers instead of punishing them.

[FBaggins]

8. There's no question that it will be close to impossible to see positive results.

I can only imagine how things are destined to go downhill over the remainder of this year. Some teachers will be understandably bitter... some will no doubt try for those 50% of job openings... others will think that to do so would be a betrayal. Finger pointing will begin between some teachers and the local union.

The you move on to a "new" school that could be cobbled together with "whatever we can find"

OTOH... it's just possible that the publicity could help them. There might be some teachers anxious for a challenge who want to make a difference in a desperate situation. There aren't enough to fill all of the schools going through such a change... but this is the one they have all heard of.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I can't see any experienced teachers wanting to teach at this school

They will likely end up hiring first year teachers and TFA interns to fill those positions.

[FBaggins]

14. Doesn't make sense to me either.

But I have little doubt that they will be able to fill the school. I think there are enough people willing to take on a challenge (some who likely agree that this is the right move)... and I think we'll see the existing teachers fighting over those 50% of slots.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I disagree

I work in one of these 'failing' districts. Every year we have at least 200 vacancies and fill at least a fourth of them with subs because they can't find teachers who want to "take on a challenge".

[FBaggins]

21. But I made a distinction -

between the bulk of these schools and this one... a distinction based on the amount of publicity they've gotten. I didn't mean to say that any such school will have an easy time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. And i think the publicity makes it even less likely they will be swarmed with applicants

[FBaggins]

26. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

The district claims that they've already received a number of application.

No telling what quality is in that pile of course... lots of people looking for work these days.

[Xipe Totec]

33. It's easy to gamble, when you have no skin in the game

Easy to say let's wait and see, when it's not your kid that's going to get hurt.

[Xipe Totec]

13. Would you risk your family's financial stability to take a crack at this nut?

I certainly would not.

If I'm going to take risks with my finances, I expect to see huge rewards. I would join a startup company and expect stock options and bonuses.

If I'm an adrenaline junkie, I can always join the Marines.

Rewards must be commensurate to risks.

But this? You want me to put my livelihood at risk and, if I succeed, I get to keep my job?

Good luck selling that one.

[handmade34]

16. cuarenta y tres

I lived in Pawtucket (right next to Central Falls). The students will not be left without teachers, but it is sad none-the-less. Anytime a school has the failure rate that Central Falls does, there are many to blame and you are correct, we all need to help each other in situations like this. Everything I have read and heard and listened to tells me that the Union bargained poorly and I suspect there will be updates as the days go by.

[Xipe Totec]

2. It’s not about blaming teachers, said Gist,

She pointed out that the principal and support staff had also been terminated.

That makes me feel so much better! :eyes:

[bluestateguy]

4. Some parents ought to be fired

Deadbeats who don't pay any attention to their children's schooling.

[FBaggins]

5. How do you propose to do that?

Cut their parenting salary?

Take their kids away?

Yes... parents have the primary responsibility for their kids' education... but how should we legislate around that?

[bluestateguy]

6. That is above my pay grade

nt

[FBaggins]

10. Indeed... me too.

But it's the next question whenever "blame the parents" is on the play list.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. No need to legislate around anything

If the kids aren't coming to school, you hotline the parents for educational neglect. Same strategy if parents aren't showing up for conferences, especially if their child is failing.

But if you need legislation, some states are fining parents when kids are truant. In Memphis this past November, several parents were taken to court and fined or jailed because their kids were chronically truant.

[FBaggins]

20. Let's think about that for a moment.

If the kids aren't coming to school

Most of your post boils down to ways to influence the truancy rate. 1) Is that really the biggest problem re: poor parenting? 2) Doesn't it imply that you think that teachers would make these kids successes if only they would show up at school? (IOW... putting it right back on the shoulders of the teachers) That obviously isn't the case here.

I think that most of the problems related to parenting aren't something that can be legislated. People usually live in incredibly poor areas because they themselves have little to no education. If dad isn't around and mom can't read, then she won't be providing much assistance even if she could get to the P-T meeting in between her three jobs.

It's just the envirionment that we have to work with. It is, in fact, the single greatest argument in favor of public schooling. If we can't find a way to help these kids... we have failed more than just them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Yes attendance is usually a factor

It is part of AYP because low performing schools usually have lower attendance than high performing ones. That's why the attendance mandate was written into the law.

[FBaggins]

28. But that still says "if you can get their butts in the seats, we can teach them"

which is a dangerous precedent to set when we both know that there's FAR more to it than that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Which part did you find most interesting?

You left that out of your OP.

[FBaggins]

11. Thanks P2B... bad tag.

Didn't close my "blockquote"

Interesting how many comments the OP received without any meat. :)

It was a union spokesperson saying that they think nobody in the Obama administration expected their RTT policies to result in mass firings.

I don't see how a reasonable observer could expect anything ELSE.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Well when I read that I understood it completely

I remembered what we were told by our district admins when NCLB was made law. Restructuring meant the teachers had to leave the school. That doesn't mean leave by being fired, it means you are transferred to a different school in the district. In fact we were specifically told restructuring meant disbursing the staff to different schools.

We had a supt restructure a school back in the mid 90s. No one was fired.

[FBaggins]

18. But this isn't NCLB

This is the Obama/Duncan flavor of it... which specifically states that people get fired.

I can see your point on what teachers would assume (if they hadn't read/heard about it - these had)... but I can't see anyone doubting that the administration knew it would happen.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. No it doesn't say that

It says 'replacing'. That doesn't mean fired. When the law was written there was a reluctance to interfere with teacher tenure laws. In fact we were told if they restructured any of our schools, the teachers would be placed in different assignments and tenured teachers who could not be placed would continue to be paid. Our administration has assured us the state tenure law would be upheld.

So yes I can understand the teachers assuming they would NOT be fired.

[AnneD]

23. We are having the same battle brewing in Houston ISD.....

Terry Grier-our new superintendent has linked student grades to teachers jobs. He wants us to compete with charter schools but charter schools can pick their students and will kick them out at the drop of a hat-forcing the parents to take their kids back to public school because we have to take everyone.

He said we only have 400 "bad" teachers. If that is all, why go through all of this. Believe me, it is not like Texas is a strong union state. He also is trying to get people upset about teachers 'high' salaries. You'd think they want to pay Wal Mart wages to educational professionals. They want to make the school year longer. If we can't keep these kids in school during the regular school year-what makes him think summer school will work. We waste at least 22 school days to test taking and even more to teaching to the test-these kids are bored, there is no support at home, and these kids live in poverty. Good strong teachers will not go to these schools because it will cost them their careers.

He has managed to demoralize everyone. Seasoned teachers are retiring, and those with a few years are in are leaving for other suburban districts. HISD is a good district and he is about to do irreparable damage to it. He is nothing more than a hatchet man bought in to help charter school take 'market share' (their term for students) from public schools. It's not about the students-its about making money. I wish the parents weren't so eager to help him.

[FBaggins]

27. Grades are even more problamatical than test scores

Don't want to be fired? Give everyone a "B" and you're safe.

You aren't doing the kids any favors... but you're safe.

charter schools can pick their students and will kick them out at the drop of a hat

That's true for private schools... the extent it's true for a charter varies. In the cases I've seen, the school is required to take any of the kids who went to the old school.

[AnneD]

30. The difference between private schools vs charter schools....

charter schools take public funding. If someone enrolls their kids in private schools it is their money and frankly, they can be as exclusive as they want. But if they take public money, as they do in charters with vouchers....there should be accountability and it should not be this de facto segregation, or should I say resegregation. I enroll kids every week that were kicked out of charters. Places like Kipp kick these kids out but we can't cherry pick our students-we have to take everyone. And if you have a handicapped or sped kid...GOOD LUCK finding a charter school to take you.

[mzteris]

35. what do you know about this school?

HOUSTON (KTRK) -- School dropout statistics can be frightening. Nineteen percent of Houston high school students won't graduate. Studies show 85 percent of African-American dropouts will be in jail before they're 25.

In Focus reporter Ted Oberg looks at a former pro athlete running a southeast Houston charter school. He is doing everything he can to give young men one more chance to stay in school.

. . . McLemore is a freshman at Provision, an all-boys charter school in southeast Houston. He is finding success here after being kicked out of four schools for behavior problems starting with his Pre-K program.

"It has to work here. As many schools as I've been to, this school will be my last chance. It's pretty much all on the line," said McLemore.

. . . That grew into Provision, with a brand new 16-acre campus for 147 boys from 5th to 9th grade. Most had discipline problems at the Houston Independent School District. Ninety-five percent of them come from families below the poverty level. It's an open enrollment charter school so anyone can apply, but every one of the students has to tell Young in their own words why they deserve one of his chairs.

"What that does is begins to shift the responsibility of educating myself squarely on me," said Young.

For a group of young men with a history of acting out, the level of respect and discipline here is overwhelming.

"You can't teach over chaos," said Young.

. . . Provision claims 90 percent of former students graduate from a high school, far better than HISD's overall rate of 81 percent at best.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/in_focus&id=7055409

[AnneD]

37. I can't say anything about Provision.....

But we have the same makeup at our school. If he is pulling it off, good for him. The charters around us are not. Kids that get kicked out end up coming to us. He is right, you can't teach over chaos and out assistant principals keep a tight reign.

[mzteris]

39. do you mind my asking

which charter? (You can pm if you want.) I'd like to look into their record/background...

[AnneD]

38. sorry for the double post

EOM

[YvonneCa]

31. Sorry to hear...

...things aren't going well. Grier left San Diego....supposedly because the union was too strong. You might find it interesting to read here:

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/education/schooled/article_eb1285c8-2157-11df-b404-001cc4c002e0.html

[AnneD]

32. I'll pass it on...

at the last Board meeting we gave the board and media Grier's school rating. Gee, and they all went down when he was in charge and he seems to have no staying power lasting about 18 months at a go.

What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Even our principals are begging to be let into the teacher's union and the teacher's union membership is up dramatically.

[msongs]

29. our local elementary school just got out of program improvement.....

amazing how districts think teaching non-english speaking kids in only english will result in excellent scores.

Msongs

[Happy Hippy]

34. ....

Maybe they should have, I dunno, taught their students math? Having said that, I am SURE that the parents are mainly to blame.

[Hannah Bell]

36. back to bunnyland, hippy, with your buddies.