Time for a Math lesson! About that bottom 5%!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

Obama is proposing penalizing schools at the bottom 5%. Okay, those schools get spanked and maybe they improve or maybe they don't. But if they do get better, other schools will sink to the bottom.

There will ALWAYS be a bottom 5%!!

So next year another set of failing schools will be at the bottom. And they will get spanked. And maybe get better. And on and on.

So is the purpose of this law school improvement or maintaining a bottom 5% to punish year after year??

[CTyankee]

1. Well, I guess the whole part of reform is getting every school better.

I see your point but everybody seems to agree in school reform, just in different ways of doing it. The bottom should ALWAYS be attended to first, so that it can be helped. Altho I don't know how the poorest schools with the poorest parents can be remedied without significant help...

[jody]

2. The President & his advisers were "left behind" in the "race to the top" in math classes. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

3. Then maybe we ought to abolish that last 5%

and simply declare that a "whole" is 95% of something, for all practical purposes, and nobody has to be called on account to do a better job. Maybe someday we'll be like Lake Wobegone, where all of the children are above average.

[Donnachaidh]

4. umm, in the past wasn't it appropriate to try to AID those lower 5%

so they could get their numbers up? So what -- now we beat them up because they aren't good enough?

WTF is wrong with this picture?

[mzteris]

12. not true - there is SIGNIFICANT support for the

lowest "5%"

Here: http://www2.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/blueprint/blueprint.pdf read it for yourself. The whole thing. It's not very long. And VERY interesting!

The pertinent bit:

SCHOOL TURNAROUND GRANTS
Our proposal will make available significant grants to help states, districts, and schools implement the rigorous interventions required in each state’s lowest-performing Challenge schools under the College- and Career-Ready Students program.

States will receive funds by formula and may reserve funds to build their capacity to improve low-performing schools, including developing and implementing effective school quality review teams to assist schools in identifying school needs and supporting school improvement.

Districts and their partners will receive 3-year awards to fully and effectively implement one of these intervention models, and will be eligible for two additional years of funding to support a school’s ongoing improvement if the school is showing progress.



So they get FIVE YEARS worth of additional assistance and funding to "turn around" . . . I think that's long enough, don't you?

[Donnachaidh]

16. you think a time frame and the threat of being turned into a charter school is enough?

Those schools have been ignored for a decade or more -- now all of a sudden there are time limits?

More and more Republican ideas are rolling out of this WH....

[mzteris]

21. nooooooooooooo -

there will be increased support and monies and whole damn lot of other things. . .

Did you read it?

[DJ13]

5. I think the goal is to push the constant bottom 5% to become charter schools

Think of it as a means to force our public schools into becoming the property of corporations.

I cant think of any other way to accomplish that goal that wouldnt cause a riot by parents and teachers.

What we really need to question is why our Democratic President is secretly promoting a Republican policy.

[TheWraith]

10. Thank you for the conspiracy theories.

Now please return to objective reality. :eyes:

[Catshrink]

17. You haven't been paying attention.

[mzteris]

13. No no and no

Charter schools are non-profit public schools.

Apprx 10% (500) of all charter schools are MANAGED by a "for profit organization" known as an EMO. Did you know EMO's also run some traditional public schools? Nearly 80% of all charters are set up and operated by LOCAL teachers, parents, former students, and businessmen/women of the community in which they live.

[DJ13]

18. Charter schools are non-profit public schools.

So far.

That too is probably on the radar for "change".

[Catshrink]

19. Not all of them. Many are run by or fronts for-profit corporations

Why else would businesses be so eager to get involved?

[mzteris]

23. Many? Try TEN PERCENT!! 10%

of all charter schools are "run by" "for profit EMO's". Did you know that those same EMO's RUN TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS, too?? And they are a LOWER PERCENTAGE each year!

Another 10% ish are run by non-profit charter management organizations.

Almost 80% of all charter schools are run by LOCAL individuals - such as TEACHERS, PRINCIPALS, PARENTS,k former students, and businessmen/womem concerned about community welfare.

They WANT to get involved because believe it or not SOME OF US - actuallly care about kids and not just about money!

[mzteris]

22. Nope -

in fact those few (10%) "for profit" management companies are losing ground every year.

[Hannah Bell]

30. such bullshit you spew.

For-Profit Schools
They're spreading fast. Can private companies do a better job of educating America's kids?

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_06/b3667001.htm


Even though doubts lingered following the Edison Schools debacle, for-profit education management have grown steadily over the years. Indeed, reports of the death of education management organizations (E.M.O.s) have been greatly exaggerated. They are alive and thriving in a new realm: cyberspace.

Most charter schools continue to be managed by their founders, but the number using E.M.O.s is growing and is now at 22 percent, according to the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools.

Gary Miron, a research scholar from Western Michigan University, has been tracking E.M.O. growth for the past 10 years. During that period, says Miron, the number of for-profit E.M.O.s has grown from 14 in 1999 to 50 in 2008, and the number of schools served by those E.M.O.s rose from 131 to 533.

Growth still continues in the for-profit sector, notes Miron, though in a different direction. Like Edison, existing companies appear to be focusing on the diversification of their products and services, instead of on acquiring more schools.

That growth is most notable in the virtual, or online, education sector. Although his group has only collected data on virtual schools since the 2003-2004 school year, “the number of E.M.O.-managed virtual schools has grown from 17 to 40,” said Miron. Virtual schools accounted for only 4 percent of the E.M.O.-managed schools in 2003-2004. In 2008, they accounted for 8 percent.

And while the total number of virtual schools in the overall charter landscape may be small, such schools tend to have much larger enrollments than their brick-and-mortar counterparts. In 2008, 17.4 percent of all students enrolled in E.M.O.-operated schools were in virtual ones.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:p6fVuEONEFwJ:columbia.news21.com/%3Fp%3D752+charter+schools+profit+growth&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Hannah Bell]

29. no, some are for-profit, & none are "public" except for their siphoning of public money.

that poster is terribly misinformed, probably because she gets her information from walmart funded charter school pimps.

[Catshrink]

33. some of us think

paid poster. That would explain a lot, eh?

[FBaggins]

6. Don't be ridiculous.

After twenty years (assuming no repeat "offenders"), the takeover will be complete.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. LOL

I did think of that. Should have included it in my OP.

[TheWraith]

9. Self delete, somehow got posted in the wrong place. nt

[stray cat]

7. I'm concerned when 90% can not do basic math

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. So let's fire the English teachers!!

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

31. Well, you'd better talk to the CEO of that charter school that just sent 100% of its

students off to college, cause about 90% of them didn't meet state math standards in the 11th grade.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Zing!

[mzteris]

11. how ridiculous. . .

people should practice their reading skills! :eyes:

But let's say - for the sake of argument - you're right in your "interpretation".

Let's say schools DO improve - all become better and better and better. There would be some who are content to just be "better" and "good enough" - not "as good as they CAN be" or other schools in their area ARE!

So - what? They should be allowed to remain "just good enough" - or SUPPORTED & exhorted - to become EVEN BETTER?!?

Novel idea, huh. Asking for continual improvement 'cause there's no such thing as perfect, and 'cause things (technology, knowledge) and people (students, teachers) change all the time!

[mbperrin]

15. Yes, that is the purpose. If we really wanted all schools to reach some level,

we'd use a criterion-based system. Like when you take a test: here are ten functions of cells; if you test on 9 of them, that's good enough, for instance.

Under the proposed normed system, 100% of all the schools could be crap. If the students at school 1 could answer only 4 of the 10 functions, 3 for schools 2-15; school 16-19 could answer 2, and poor old school 20 could answer only 1, then school 1 would receive an "excellent" rating, schools 2-19 would get a "good enough" rating, and school 20 would be targeted for takeover. Even though none of the schools are actually worth shit in this case. Under a normed grading system, you only have to be smarter than the dumbest one in the class, and you win. This is what's wrong with every measure used to evaluate schools now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. We had an excellent criterion referenced test in MO

But we had to switch to norm referenced for NCLB.

[mzteris]

25. with the new system -

you can change it back!!

[mbperrin]

26. Nope. The 10% is mandated right in there.

That automatically translates to normed. Otherwise, we would say ALL schools that fall below the criteria are unacceptable.

Even then, the solutions are wrong under this proposal as well as all previous. You can't take resources away from those already not doing well and expect them to do better.

Here's how that game would play out if Jesus came and they actually did better with less: "Well, you did so much better with 20% less, we're going to cut you even more next year to help you even more!"

Like a carpenter who is not meeting his quota of nails driven because he is choking up on the head of the hammer and losing all power. We could take the time and effort to show him how to drive correctly, from the elbow and at the tip. Or we could just say, "You're unacceptable. Turn in your hammer. We're going to replace you." That's the solution for all these national programs - fire, never train. Quite a strange remediation for educators....

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Excellent analogy

A+

[mzteris]

24. Did you read it?

I have NOoooo idea what you were trying to say in that second para....

but at any rate, what's being done "now" isn't the issue. It's what they WANT to do.

Starting with a standardized set of Core Knowledge standards for the nation so that every kid gets the same advantage whether they're in Mass. or south Alabama. With the NCLB many states "dumbed down" their standards so they'd "look good" by saying they had so many kids at 90%, etc... That needs to change. BTW - here's a link to those standards - they're still accepting feedback on that: http://www.corestandards.org/

They want to revamp those "evaluations". Look at INDIVIDUAL PROGRESS.

After that - well - I could cut and paste, but you really should read the whole Blueprint: http://www2.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/blueprint/blueprint.pdf

ok - here's a couple things JUST about "ASSESSMENTS"

ASSESSING ACHIEVEMENT
Our proposal will maintain support for state efforts to improve the quality of their assessment systems, and to develop and implement the upgraded standards and assessments required by the College- and Career-Ready Students program. Improved assessments can be used to accurately measure student growth; to better measure how states, districts, schools, principals, and teachers are educating students; to help teachers adjust and focus their teaching; and to provide better information to students and their families.
States will receive formula grants to develop and implement high-quality assessments aligned with college- and career-ready standards in English language arts and mathematics
that accurately measure student academic achievement and growth, provide feedback to support and improve teaching, and measure school success and progress. States may also use funds to develop or implement high-quality, rigorous statewide assessments in other academic or career and technical subjects, high school course assessments, English language proficiency assessments, and interim or formative assessments. Beginning in 2015, formula funds will be available only to states that are implementing assessments based on college- and career-ready standards that are common to a significant number of states. The program also will support competitive grants to consortia of states, and to other entities working in partnership with states, for research on, or development and improvement of, additional high-quality assessments to be used by multiple states in such areas as science, history, or foreign languages; high school course assessments in academic and career and technical subjects; universally designed assessments; and assessments for English Learners and students with disabilities.


Other "measuring sticks"

Rigorous and Fair Accountability and Support at Every Level. Building on these statewide standards and aligned assessments, every state will ensure that its statewide system of accountability rewards schools and districts for progress and success, requires rigorous interventions in the lowest-performing schools and districts, and allows local flexibility to determine the appropriate improvement and support strategies for most schools.

To foster public accountability for results and help focus improvement and support efforts, states must have data systems in place to gather information that is critical to determining how schools and districts are progressing in preparing students to graduate from high school college- and career-ready. States and districts will collect and make public data relating to student academic achievement and growth in English language arts and mathematics, student academic achievement in science, and if states choose, student academic achievement and growth in other subjects, such as history. At the high school level, this data will also include graduation rates, college enrollment rates, and rates of college enrollment without need for remediation. All of these data must be disaggregated by race, gender, ethnicity, disability status, English Learner status, and family income. States and districts also will collect other key information about teaching and learning conditions, including information on school climate such as student, teacher and school leader attendance; disciplinary incidents; or student, parent, or school staff surveys about their school experience.




Our proposal will provide competitive grants to support states, school districts, and their partners in providing learning environments that ensure that students are successful, safe, and healthy. To better measure school climate and identify local needs, grantees will be required to develop and implement a state- or district-wide school climate needs assessment to evaluate school engagement, school safety (addressing drug, alcohol, and violence issues), and school environment, and publicly report this information. This assessment must include surveys of student, school staff, and family experiences with respect to individual schools, and additional data such as suspensions and disciplinary actions. States will use this data to identify local needs and provide competitive subgrants to school districts and their partners to address the needs of students, schools, and communities.

Grantees will use funds under the Successful, Safe, and Healthy Students program to carry out strategies designed to improve school safety and to promote students’ physical and mental health and well-being, nutrition education, healthy eating, and physical fitness. Grantees may support activities to prevent and reduce substance use, school violence (including teen dating violence), harassment, and bullying, as well as to strengthen family and community engagement in order to ensure a healthy and supportive school environment.

[Hannah Bell]

32. why don't *you* try reading something instead of spamming your phony fact sheets.

[Catshrink]

35. Talking points, Hannah Bell

Straight from the Wal-Mart Education Division.

[radical noodle]

36. That could be interpreted a million different ways

It's the kind of thing that managers write to satisfy some "policy" requirement that covers the territory but doesn't specify anything. It's full of buzz words and ambiguity but has little substance.

[Hannah Bell]

27. The point is to charterize public education.