Is NCLB really improving how we educate our kids with disabilities?

[proud2BlibKansan]

I read this article in the Wash Post last week when I was in DC.

Law Opens Opportunities for Disabled
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/16/AR2008031602616.html?nav=rss_education

It's about a mother of a 9th grade boy with Down's Syndrome who is thrilled that he is reading Romeo and Juliet. It just haunted me. I couldn't help but wonder how reading Shakespeare is going to benefit this boy. I want to know if he can count money and tell time and does he know his address and phone number. Is he getting any life skills or job training?

Is it more important for him to read Romeo and Juliet or to be prepared for life as an employable, self-sufficient adult? How do we best serve children with disabilities like Downs Syndrome? Do we water down the regular ed curriculum and expose them to as much grade level material as possible or do we teach them life skills?

[Ilsa]

1. My son is very autistic, but initially, they said he had to take the TAKS

test. Stupid waste of time.

Special Needs Children need to learn their life skills first. And they need education beyond high school, which they usually finish becasue they look too old to continue going.

There are alot of wonderful things happening in special education, but eventually, when the kids stop being so "cute" the education stops. I worry for my son's future and survival after we're gone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. I can remember when we had to fight almost daily

for our special needs kids to be included. They weren't given any of the same academic materials, they were excluded from special programs and assemblies and never included in field trips.

I appreciate that we no longer have to fight those battles but it seems we have gone too far in the opposite direction. How realistic is it to expect a 9th grader with Down's Syndrome to read and understand Romeo and Juliet?

I definitely understand your concern for your son. Far too many of my students are forced to take the test. It's ridiculous and a waste of valuable instructional time. We spent the last two weeks giving a 'predictor' test. No need - I can already predict how they are going to perform on the test in April. :)

[Book Lover]

2. .

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[proud2BlibKansan]

3. No need to be snotty

It's an honest question.

It is also completely different for you to read TO YOUR CHILD and to have him READ INDEPENDENTLY. This article was about a parent excited that her son was reading Romeo and Juliet. Not that it was being read to him - he was reading it himself in his English class.

As a parent are you more concerned about life skills or academics? That's my question. I teach elem special ed and I have a handful of 10, 11 and 12 year old kids who can't add and subtract yet I am expected to teach them grade level Math, which includes fractions and decimals. None of them can tell time and most can't count money. I have two 5th grade girls who don't know their address and phone number. So is it wise for me to spend their Math instructional time on fractions or should they be learning their phone numbers?

If our role as educators is to prepare kids for life as self-sufficient adults, are we being responsible if we ignore life skills and push the general curriculum?

[Book Lover]

5. Well, since you ignored the fact that I deleted my post,

let me reply. It is not mere academic to read Shakespeare, or to understand how to interpret visual art. These are life skills as vital as being able to count money. I want my child to be able to do both. Why must it be the one or the other?

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. You deleted while I was posting my reply

But to answer your question - there is only so much time in our instructional day. I have one hour per day to teach my 5th grade group both Math and Reading. So do I spend that time teaching them to memorize their phone numbers and to count money and tell time or do I spend that time trying to help them understand 5th grade Math?

Unfortunately, it really does need to be one or the other.

[Book Lover]

7. We are getting off topic here

What I took away from your OP was, "Reading Shakespeare isn't going to do this disabled child any good, because it's not a life skill and that's what these kids need." Am I wrong here?

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. No you aren't completely wrong

My point is, with the limits we have on time, is it more important to teach Shakespeare or life skills?

[Book Lover]

10. Let's strike a deal

I read Homer and Shakespeare to my child, and you teach (and I reinforce) your other life skill lessons. Because I honestly and truly believe that they are both critical to living the fullest, most mature, and capable life possible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I wish you were one of my parents

Sadly the kids I teach don't come from homes where Homer and Shakespeare will be read to them. I think I can assume you would also work on basic life skills, like knowing your address and phone number. That would sure make my job lots easier.

The problem as I see it is that we are hyper focusing on academics, and ignoring life skills.

The tests are also a huge waste of time. Before NCLB, I gave each of my students an individually administered achievement test every year. That test told me exactly what each child had learned and what specific skills they still needed to work on. But now that we have to give our kids with disabilities the state assessment that NCLB requires, we no longer give the individual tests that were so much more valuable, in terms of planning and writing goals for the coming year. The NCLB tests tell me yes, the child has mastered grade level academic material or no he can't. It doesn't give useful specific information regarding skill levels.

[msongs]

9. if the child is actually reading it, its great. some down syndrome kids can read nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. No DS kid can read Shakespeare in the way that ....

Shakespeare is meant to be read.

At least no DS kid that I ever encountered . Abridged to a comic book/ graphic novel reading level, *perhaps*. And this only for a *few* very high functioning Down's kids.

But let's not kid ourselves: they aren't "reading Shakespeare" as that term is commonly understood.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. And is he comprehending it?

If so, that's great. I don't doubt that some kids with Down's Syndrome can read Romeo and Juliet. But my question is - in the long run, is this useful to this child?

[Nevernose]

27. I'd argue that Romeo & Juliet is incredibly useful (threadjack!)

First off, learning about the human condition is important to children of all ability levels. The disabled children I've had the pleasure of dealing with feel all of the same emotions, and undergo the same experiences, that the rest of us do. In terms of "human experience," Romeo & Juliet might be even more meaningful to developmentally disabled students -- who knows better about a teenage love that is forbidden by authority?

There's also the sense of accomplishment. Even reading an abridged graphic novel can be very empowering. Shakespeare is intimidating when you're a kid. I've had AP English students that read Hamlet and thought that if they could conquer that, then they could conquer anything. I'd argue that pride and self-worth is a far more valuable skill than balancing checkbooks. Someone with pride will eventually learn to balance a checkbook, if it's at all within their ability.

Most importantly, teaching Romeo & Juliet has nothing to do with Romeo & Juliet. It's about interpreting and understanding the written word. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if it's a dog food label or Proust -- the skills are carried over regardless of the content. And in that context, Romeo & Juliet are vital.

[pop goes the weasel]

12. everyone should have the opportunity

Each person is an individual. This means that, yes, people with disabilities are also individuals. Some people with even learning disabilities such as Down syndrome or autism go on to college and graduate. Real college. If a person has the ability to succeed in college, how can you dare say that being able to read Romeo and Juliet in 9th grade is not a useful life skill? Who made you god to decide someone else's path?

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. First of all, Down's Syndrome is not a learning disability

It is a type of mental retardation. Kids with LD are not retarded, they have average or above intelligence levels. And yes, of course, they can read Shakespeare, go to college and graduate.

But a child with Down's Syndrome does not have average intelligence. I am not even certain how realistic it is to expect a child with Down's Syndrome to go to college. Perhaps a few can, but the ones I have worked with are profoundly retarded and are not able to function above a 2nd or 3rd grade level, at best.

No one made me god. I am a special ed teacher. My JOB is to prepare kids for life as independent, employable adults. I am not deciding anyone's life path, but merely helping my students develop the skills they will need in whatever path they choose.

[pop goes the weasel]

20. damn, I better tell the girl with D. syndrome at my college

I guess I'll tell her to drop out, that she is wasting her time when she should be learning life skills like how to wipe her ass or drink from a cup.

You work with people with profound mental retardation. The operative word there is "profound." It is not the same as the words "Down syndrome." I wonder that you work with children with disabilities when you don't even seem to understand the current terminology. It's "Down syndrome." It has several possible effects, including learning disability. Its impact on individuals is extremely variable, such that quite a few perform close to normal or low normal on intelligence tests. No one should be prejudged and limited in what they have made available to them on the basis of a medical diagnosis. A person with Down syndrome who can read should be in classes that help them read. We should all be assessed on our individual capacity.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. You are the one who appears to not understand definitions and terminology

I have a masters degree in special education. What's yours in? Nasty replies on DU?

Show me where I said anything about wiping her ass and drinking from a cup. I specifically mentioned many other much higher level life skills. Guess you didn't bother to ready my other replies in this thread.

I also said I don't doubt there are SOME DS kids capable of reading and comprehending Shakespeare. My point is, if a FEW can, should we require ALL to do it? The current trend is to abandon life skills for a strictly academic program. Is that really meeting the needs of our kids with moderate disabilities?

I work in a cross categorical program. In other words, ALL children with disabilities enrolled in my building are my students. The range is from mild LD to moderate retardation. I have been doing this for 15 years and teaching for 28. I don't need your lecture on current terminology. LOL

[LWolf]

15. You know the answer to that as well as anyone.

We know that the label "special ed" covers a huge range of students: from those with a slight learning disability making them eligible for minimal support services to those with profound disabilities that make teaching them basic life skills a major mountain to climb.

I have special ed students mainstreamed into my classroom that fit this boy's profile: no Down's Syndrome this year, but special ed math and regular ed language arts, for example. Students who are one or two points shy of meeting state benchmarks, having made those gains because regular ed teachers work hand in hand with special ed teachers on my school site, giving "push in" services as well as "pull out." We work together to modify the regular classroom curriculum to make it accessible to our special ed students who can be successful with those modifications.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with NCLB, but with our professional collaboration to give each student the best opportunities we can within the structure and limits we work under. My special ed teachers serve anyone I say need services; in my regular ed 6th grade class this year I have 9 students with IEPs, a couple with 504s, and another 3 being served with no formal identification, just because we can see they need it. A much larger than average percentage of students with special needs in a regular ed classroom.

To suggest that, without NCLB, we would not do our best to help our students find success is demeaning, and it's false.

I'd like Maria Glod to visit an 8th grade special ed class in the last school I taught in, before moving out of CA. A special ed classroom full of 8th graders whose "least restrictive environment" was a full-time special ed classroom. For years, my colleague spent time on a school garden, where students not only gardened, but learned to market their produce, do accounting for their little "business," and budget their profits. They spent time at a local therapeutic riding center, learning to groom the horses and help with the riding sessions for patients. They spent time in a myriad of real-world environments, doing real-world kinds of tasks, in addition to working on individualized academic plans.

When NCLB kicked in, all that stopped. No more garden. No more trips anywhere. No more individualized curriculum. All students in that class worked out of the district's 8th grade text books, whether they could remember the alphabet or how to count. Standards were posted on the wall, and the teacher had to justify every moment of the day by pointing out which standard he was "covering."

How did NCLB help these special ed students, and others like them? Can any journalist answer that question?

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. My heart just ached for the mother in the story

You nailed it. Yes of course we will strive to meet their needs (all of our kids' needs) with or without the law. But before NCLB, we had more leeway in deciding what those needs were. ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS.

I don't teach high school so I don't know how realistic it is to teach Shakespeare to a child with Down's Syndrome. I suspect it is inappropriate but I admit there may be exceptional kids who would benefit from it.

What I know for sure is 10 years ago, no child left me to go on to middle school without knowing their address, phone number, how to count money, how to tell time, how to tie their shoes, some basic nutritional information (how to eat right), how to read a road map, and able to read and write at a 2nd grade level (at a minimum - most were more literate).

But now, I have 5th and 6th graders who have few of those skills. Yesterday, our 5th grade Math lesson was comparing quadilaterals to other 3d shapes. They were lost. I wanted to cry.

Every year, when it comes time for the test, it never fails, I pass it out and they open the booklet and at least one of them says "I CAN'T READ THIS!" One year one of my little girls closed the booklet and looked at me and said "Mrs. P, you have lost your mind." :)

[LWolf]

19. It's not just a waste of time,

it's damaging. And there is nothing we can do about it as long as the law stands.

The test? I just gave the test again last week. My SPED kids generally, sincerely, give it their best. This year, they can all decode. They don't comprehend well, though. They choose the answer which makes the most sense to them, which tends to be the answer that repeats something they read the most literally. When the test is too far beyond a student to do even that, they will run through that test very quickly, choosing random answers and proudly announcing that they are "done." I have one like that this year; ELL and SPED together.

I also have two students that don't take "the test" with the rest of the class. One takes a different form, given one-on-one with a SPED teacher. The other doesn't test at all; it's written into his IEP. I'm sure that doesn't help our AYP. He's autistic, and suffers from both short and long-term memory impairment. When he came to us in 7th grade, his parents had pulled him out of school for 2 years and spent everything they had at the Sylvan Learning Center to "fix" him. After 2 years of taking these people's money, Sylvan calmly told them that their program wasn't benefiting him. Duh.

When we got him back in 7th grade, the first thing they did was put him into "Read Naturally," a fluency program. It took just a few weeks for us to notice that he could listen to a short passage on tape, read along with it, and then repeat it quite well, without ever connecting it to the words his fingers were tracing. Change the words, and he'd repeat the same things, without noticing that the words, or the order of the words, had changed. Starting over the next day or the next period, because he would have forgotten by then.

We quit trying to teach him to read. It's in his IEP, with his mother's blessing. He "reads" whatever we are reading, using books on tape. He participates in discussions. He types into a special computer, and can now, after 2 years, put together 3 simple sentences to express himself. He types with phonetic consonants, and the computer helps to decipher and correct what he is typing. I don't know what he's doing in math; I haven't taught math since moving to 6th - 8th grade. I doubt he's doing algebra, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I have one who is basically a non-reader

She is also non-verbal. But books on tape have opened a world for her. She loves them and is reading at a primer level now. She could spend all day with those headphones on listening to a book on tape. What a terrific asset those are.

[LWolf]

24. Yes.

I have a 6th grader who accessed "Chasing Vermeer" on CD with us this year; a GREAT book, but not an easy read, and was an enthusiastic participant in every discussion and project we did that had to do with the book.

My 8th grader is currently doing the same with "The Giver."

[ulysses]

18. I think it's a question of what we *don't* do.

If the child is able to access Shakespeare in a way that enhances his life, great! I have no doubt that some children with DS can do so.

But you're correct - if he's being taught Shakespeare to the exclusion of basic functional skills, then we're doing more harm than good. It's Maslow's hierarchy: maybe he *can* go to college, but not if he doesn't have the independent foundational skills in place first.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. I also think we have taken the individual out of educating our disabled kids

When we hold them to regular ed academic standards we are no longer examining individual differences and needs. Like I said upthread, do I teach my 5th grade girls to memorize their phone numbers or to convert a fraction to a decimal?

[ulysses]

25. I'm amused at what we've done in GA.

Starting last year, even the Georgia Alternative Assessment has to be keyed to grade level standards - so the sixth grade child with Angelman's Syndrome and the cognitive level of a nine-month old has to somehow have a test proving that she is progressing toward the point at which she can interpret the allegorical language in, say, Island of the Blue Dolphins.

It's nuts.

[LWolf]

26. Totally nuts, and the creators and promoters know it.

:grr:

[jody]

28. Not in Alabama and NCLB ignores gifted and talented students. n/t