Man sues LA college over anti-gay marriage speech

[davidinalameda]

http://www.fresnobee.com/384/story/1201573.html

A community college student has filed a lawsuit claiming a public speaking professor berated him and refused to let him finish a speech opposing same-sex marriage.

In the suit filed last week in a Los Angeles federal court, student Jonathan Lopez said that midway through his speech when he recited a dictionary definition of marriage and recited a pair of bible verses, professor John Matteson cut him off, called him a "fascist bastard" and would not allow him to finish.

The suit says Matteson told students they could leave if they were offended, and when no one left he dismissed the class.

A student evaluation form included with the lawsuit lacks a score for Lopez's speech, and reads "ask God what your grade is."

Matteson is a speech instructor at Los Angeles City College

You don't tell a student "ask God what your grade is" unless you're looking for a lawsuit

you do not call a student a fascist bastard unless he's attacking you personally and while the text of the speech hasn't been posted, I would doubt that is the case here

this plays into the hands of the right wingers who say that academics refuse to listed to any other points of view and indoctrinate the students

I hope Matteson gets tossed out on his ass if this is shown to be true

[n2doc]

1. GM is considering filing Ch. 11 bankruptcy

If that happens I don't know what happens to the stock, probably not good....

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. Interestingly, I think you meant to post that in my poll.

But in that case, I lose it.

[n2doc]

8. You are right!

Don't know how it ended up here. ????

[davidinalameda]

24. thread hijacker!

:evilgrin:

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

3. Quite awful.

Assuming LA City College is a public institution, the state certainly won't need the added financial stress from an out-of-court settlement.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. I think there might be insurance coverage,

but that's quite the stretch of imagination on my part.

You're so right, though - another financial burden, on top of the octoplets. California is getting some real karmic blowback from the hateful scheme (led by Darrell Issa) that removed a legitimately elected governor to plant the clown Arnold in the governor's seat. That was a Republican scam that certainly went well, didn't it?

[Ian David]

4. I would agree that the professor was in the wrong here.

You let the fascist bastard student complete their own humiliation in those instances.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. That's some awfully strong language

to use on a student who was legitimately completing his assignment.

People with opinions inconsistent with ours are entitled to just as much free speech protection, and, if their views are universally hateful - think David Duke - that speech needs even more protection. It's how we keep our First Amendment rights secure.

I'm not convinced that namecalling achieves anything beside some momentary emotional release for the namecaller.

[donco6]

21. I dunno - HIS namecalling made ME feel better, too! n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Sounds like the "professor"

needs his education expanded to include the free exchange of ideas - especially those with which you may disagree.

Someday, I honestly believe, the meaning of "free speech" will become common knowledge. In the meantime, we have idiots like Matteson - I'd love to know his academic credentials - standing before students, professing to know something.

This is really quite egregious. Should be interesting.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

9. And I wish DUers would learn that unrestricted "free speech" doesn't exist...

....in the classroom setting........or on DU for that matter.

"Free speech" or the First Amendment doesn't guarantee you a captive audience of other public/secular school students to air your hate speech cloaked in religious bullshit.

While I don't agree with this professor's unprofessional tactics, I find it hard to disagree with his sentiment.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

11. The prof will catch hell if LA City College is publicly funded.

Colleges and universities that receive public funding are subject to government regulation, like with Title IX. (Note that this doesn't really apply to secondary schools because of Supreme Court rulings supporting a school's right to pursue its mission combined with the interesting civil liberties limbo minor citizens enjoy in most states).

And, no, the student's ideas were utterly objectionable, but the professor (being a professional) should have handled that situation much differently. This will probably get settled out of court. The prof might take a semester or a year off and then be back in the classroom, hopefully a bit more capable of handling his conservative or bigoted students.

[XemaSab]

74. LA City is a California community college

n/t

[Ian David]

12. I agree with you.

I think the professor was right in offering other students the opportunity to leave if they wished.

However, trying to silence the student was wrong.

Calling him a fascist bastard should have waited until after his speech was completed.

Especially since there was a chance the student was giving the speech as a purely intellectual exercise, and actually believed the opposite. I've done that sort of thing myself. You give a speech, defend your thesis, and then, when it's all done, you can finally admit that you actually believe the opposite, and outline the case against your own speech. That's usually enough to get you an extra half a letter grade when done well.

And telling him to ask god what his grade was, while chuckle-worthy, was really just a way of guaranteeing the student would win a lawsuit.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. While I might agree with the sentiment, I can't agree with how he

handled it.

Assuming this is supposed to be a "persuasive" speech in the speech class, what the professor should have done was was analyze the speech and point out how it DOESN'T persuade - that being the assignment. The position, as demonstrated in the article, was supported from a narrow base of a religious/cultural stand and would thus only persuade those who are already inclined by that religious/cultural stand to support it.

Persuasive speaking is supposed to sway the opposition, not repeat soundbites for the already persuaded.

I wonder if, perhaps, the teacher is gay himself and took it personally - and knew that it was meant to be taken personally? It pushed his buttons and got the reaction the student wanted, but it did not meet the assignment.

[dsc]

15. Actually a speech class might well be

Unless he was specific in what was and wasn't appropriate for the speech in question it can be assumed this was an open forum of sorts. It was totally unprofessional. I have had kids wear striaght pride shirts to my class on the day of silence at my school and I acted like a professional and adult.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. Notice that the word "unrestricted"

comes only from you. Not a mention of it until you brought it up, which, if it were a valid insertion, would completely change the tenor of this exchange.

So, sorry, but that's just a red herring you threw out to detract from the basic fact that the student had every right to present his paper without the inappropriate comments by the teacher.

Nice try, and you did manage to get your sentiment expressed - no surprise there -but if you want free speech, you have to understand that the same privilege applies to those with views different from yours.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. My point stands even without the word "unrestricted."

Especially in the context you use "free speech."

Here: You don't have free speech rights in a class room.

I like my version as it puts a finer point on the matter... but they both work.

[Vanje]

25. Do the other students in the class have the right to be free of forced proselytizing

Are students at a public school free to attend a speech class without having to listen to an uninterrupted bigoted screed, studded throughout with bible verses?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

27. I know I'm making a mistake here,

but I didn't get from the article that the student's presentation was "... an uninterrupted(,) bigoted screed, studded throughout with bible verses". I got the impression that the student was making a presentation of an assigned topic.

What I understood the article to say was that it was in favor of Prop 8 and the student wrote of his opposition to gay marriage on religious grounds.

Now, while you and I may not agree with that student about anything in his presentation, that in no way means he should be precluded from finishing it, nor should he be penalized for his views.

The professor should be fired.

[Vanje]

28. "preaching hate in the classroom"

"Preaching hate in the classroom" is how a student who heard the speech characterized it.

Merriam& Webster describe screed as a lengthy discourse.

I'm inclined now,to believe, from the eye-witnesses observation, that the bible-verse studded hate preaching was even worse than a screed.

You might like to throw some real support to The Alliance Defense Fund , instead of just carrying water for them on GLBT issues.
The Alliance Defense Fund is defending the poor abused lad who was using a state college classroom as a pulpit.
The ADF was founded by James Dobson (focus on the Family)among others, and is vigorously endorsed by Bill O'Reilly.
Read more about it here :http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=cs_&page=NewsArticle&id=6776

[Two Americas]

39. now you take the opposite position

You took the exact opposite position on the hospital issue. Then, we were lectured to not take the plaintiffs charges at face value. Today, we are lectured to take the plaintiff's charges at face value. In each case, you have defended the people taking the conservative position.

[Bluebear]

42. Funny thing how that works, eh?

I have the poster on ignore because I simply can't anymore, but as to your description of his/her stance on conservative positions - - -curious, no?

[bluedawg12]

46. Keep in mind no one has ever heard the teacher's version of events.

Schools are closed today, but the Fresno Bee got it right out before the milk was even delivered, so to speak.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

50. LOL. I figured as much.

[Two Americas]

45. your "impression"

You told us not to go with our impressions on that other court case - speaking as a lawyer, you said. We should not trust the word of the plaintiffs until the facts were in.

Yet here you say "fire the professor" and that you find the plaintiff's story believable.

I don't understand the obvious double standard here.

[bluedawg12]

48. There is less to consider in this case other than a photocopy of a grade paper

and an article by the Fresno Bee. :eyes: Great reporting there, they read the complaint and regurgitated it.

If I had to speculate, the hospital case at least had access to the legal complaint which provided a narrative and a time line and provided some facts that were worthy of discussion. Geez.

[Bluebear]

53. "Through years of courtroom experience I have learned to take nothing at face value"

if I can remember the gist of the quote.

[FreeState]

38. Tangerine LaBamba do you ever support the gay side of a legal issue?

I ask because in a thread yesterday you stated that a hospital needed the benefit of the doubt until the case was heard and argued strongly that the accuser (a lesbian that was denied her rights at the hospital) was not telling the whole story and the hospitals side has not been released yet.

Then today you take the side of the student with out taking into account the other side of the story - which has not been released - or the history of the ADF (you might want to do a little research into them).

(edit to correct acronym)

[LeftHander]

10. If the professor is gay then the students motivation for the topic

would definitely be in question.

[bluedawg12]

56. That's a great question.

I wonder what the little speech was all about. Maybe a little baiting?

[Eryemil]

13. Is the professor gay? If he's not I sort of both admire him for the fact the he would speak out...

...at all and feel bad for how much this will suck for him.

Still, if he's queer I could understand why he reacted that way. I personally would have decked the little creep, student or not.
Imagine being black and having to listen to some little snot talk about the evils of interracial marriage.

No one ever said I'd make a good teacher.

[mitchtv]

52. I would have peferred that interruption

caming from a student. He should have been allowed to finish then skinned alive by the teach

[bluedawg12]

57. Yeah, one guy finally had it with gay baiting and spoke up

(details of how, still pending) and the freakiong world is collapsing?

I think the little fascist bastage deserved that and more, too bad the teacher is being savaged with over- the- top claims by dogbeaterdobson's thugs.

[donco6]

17. "Ask God what your grade is."

LOL!

At least he has a sense of humor.

That's more than you can say for the fascist bastard in his class.

[SacredCow]

18. Another vote for good sentiment, terrible execution....

I like the "ask God what your grade is" dig, but it was certainly inappropriate, and plays right into the hands of the talibangicals to say that the pro-gay group will not allow them to present their opinions of the matter.

[donco6]

20. But the evil frosted side of me can't help laughing.

The professor is totally screwed, fer sure. And David Horowitz already has a book deal with this kid, I'm sure.

[SacredCow]

22. Had I been in the class, I'd have laughed my ass off....

I vividly remember my public speaking class... I did one of my speeches a-la Bob Barker- "Please spay or neuter your pets" and there was a smart-ass frat boy in the class that commented "How about my girlfriend? Can I spay her, too?" Hilarity ensued.

[donco6]

23. My speech class was in the late seventies.

My class had three Iranian students. Every speech they gave - informative, persuasive, demonstrative - whatever . . . were all along the lines "The Shah is evil!" I'm sure our teacher had a fun time trying to grade them.

[bluedawg12]

30. Sounds like a fascist bastage to me.

Waaaa...... :rofl:

[Zuiderelle]

26. The professor should have let him finish and then ripped his speech to shreds on its own merits

(or lack thereof), such as how feeble it is to quote passages from the same bible book that claims eating shellfish is an abomination.

In his place, I may have done the same thing. May not have been right, but it certainly was human.

[joeybee12]

29. WHY??? Why is everyone here automatically accepting that what is stated in the lawsuit...

...is true? The kid could be making this up...he might not be. It's troubling that assertations like this are automatically accepted by so many of you.

[bluedawg12]

31. You're right anyone can file a law suit, even fascist bastages! LMAO.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, I feel bad for the Prof. who is in trouble, but after hearing right wing fascistbastages for years my sympathy is not with the cry baby and his verses.

And, I totally agree with your point, unless I actually saw the documents and saw both sides of the story in signed legal documents, which are often loaded with hooey any way, I believe jackcheese about his allegations.

[Vanje]

32. The lawsuit was filed by the Alliance Defense Fund ,...

an org started by James Dobson (Focus on the Family)among others, to subvert separation of Church and State. The organizations continued dedication to Gay-Bashing keeps its coffers full.



http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=cs_&page=NewsArticle&...

[bluedawg12]

33. It stinks of a set up from the reichwing, they are getting desperate.

They have nothing left but scapegoating the gays and this is meant to show the "intolerance" on the left.

You know, how those poor dictionary thumping...or is it humping??...rightwingers have suffered and had their marriages cancelled and denied their rights??? :eyes:

Thanks! Good info. on who the Assh*ledefensefund really are.

Gawlee....hate sure opens the wallets, don't it mabel? :grr:

[donco6]

34. Don't know why I didn't even think to challenge it.

If it's from FOF, there has to be some lying involved.

[bluedawg12]

35. Because you're a really nice guy?

NOt like that sheepherding Vanje and ear scratching hound like mois. :P

:rofl:

[donco6]

36. Oh yeah, I'm a real sweetheart.

See all those hearts? Oh, wait . . . I only have THREE! And I gave one to myself! Because two just seemed sad and pathetic! I may give myself more! Here's two more for me!

[bluedawg12]

37. Hey don't ruin the image bro!

LOL. I see your hearts-on are growing. :evilgrin:

[bluedawg12]

49. Shopworn rw meme about gays and pro-gays in teaching and it is wrong.

This story has not been presented in a balanced manner, the teacher's version has not been provided, for whatever reason, schools closed,etc.

I will wait to see what the teacher's lawyer says, as he is now a defendant, I doubt he will be discussing this in public, but the attorney might.

They were smart, they got this out over a holiday week-end, schools are closed, the teacher's away and the rwinger's leaked it to the Bee.

[davidinalameda]

40. the evaluation sheet was included as part of the complaint

these complaint are signed under penalty of perjury

[FreeState]

41. From looking at the evaluation sheet on ADF's website

its clear the teacher viewed the presentation as proselyting rather than the assigned speech. It also looks like outside of that he would have gotten an A on the assignment.

http://www.telladf.org/UserDocs/LopezEvaluationSheet.pdf

[bluedawg12]

44. The teacher made some good comments about the paper

however, he may not have provided a grade because "proselytizing is inappropriate in public schools."

Interesting how the AFD did not print up any text, so far, of the actual speech.

[FreeState]

47. I can't wait to see the actual speech - because if history with ADF has taught us anything

the speech was more than likely nothing short of a pre-defined speech the kid was given in order to test the system (same as several other cases they have where they encouraged a student to act/wear/read something in order to try the case and hope for a favorable ruling so they can slowly take away our rights).

[bluedawg12]

51. Exactly! Also, I wonder what the teacher has to say.

Plus, there was a roomful of witnesses.

Of course the story got leaked on a day when there were no classes and no one to interview. Is Rove back? :evilgrin:

Great journalism. phhhrrrtt!

[davidinalameda]

62. but that little "ask God what your grade is"

just completely goes over the line

[FreeState]

66. That totally depends on what transpired

and we only know half the story. Was there background were the student was warned? We dont know. On face value its wrong, however Im still not taking anything the ADF says at face value.

[bluedawg12]

43. True and everything that's ever alleged in a law suit

is automatically true? :P

[davidinalameda]

63. of course not

but this kid has documentation to back up the "go ask God what your grade" thingy

this instructor was out of line pure and simple

[galaxy21]

54. I'd have to read portions of the kid's speech before commenting

But I will say the teacher really screwed himself over when he wrote 'ask God what your grade is' regardless of what happened, that was a highly inappropriate thing to write. He should have either given him a grade, or explained why he didn't in a rational manner.

I actually think that remark might be what swings this case their way. I can understand what the teacher was getting at, but that remark came off as at best, petty, and at worst spiteful.

[sui generis]

55. hurray for being human

I don't think he should lose his job - what a bunch of malarky. Why not go ahead and castrate him too - what arcane nonsense!

Prof should realize that there are more effective ways of dealing with bullshit like that though. First of all, there is the bully pulpit. I would have followed that with a non-rebuttable evaluation speech and made the little weenie cry in front of his class.

[bluedawg12]

58. I'm going to remember this student

.............
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/
Sean Kennedy Murderer Denied Parole
Jim Burroway
February 11th, 2009
We reported last month that Stephen Moller, Sean Kennedy’s murderer, was seeking parole this month. We’ve now learned that Moller’s request for parole was denied Wednesday morning.

Stephen Moller was originally charged with murder for the death of Sean Kennedy, 20, who was attacked outside a Greenville County, S.C. bar on May 16, 2007. Witnesses said that Moller shouted anti-gay epithets at Kennedy before attacking him. Sean died of his injuries. While Moller was originally charged with murder, a grand jury reduced the charges to involuntary manslaughter. Moller pleaded guilty to those reduced charges and was sentenced to five years. That sentence was then reduced to three, minus seven months for time served. Moller’s attorney said that when all is said and done, Moller will probably serve about a year and a half. With credit for time served, he is due to be released in September.

South Carolina has no hate crime law covering sexual orientation, but it does have a law that says torturing animals can get you five years in prison. Killing a gay man? Half that.

.........

As for this case, I'll wait until I hear from the Prof. and witnesses and see a copy of the full speech, see what the cry baby fascistbastage really said in his speech, I bet it was hateful.

Just my 2 cents, but this stinks of a rw set up, with baiting the hook and all.

[bluedawg12]

60. And this student

......
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com /
year ago this week, 14 year old Brandon McInerney calmly walked up and shot two bullets into the back of 15 year old Larry King’s head. The students who knew both children said that King was killed because he was gay.
........

[bluedawg12]

61. And this 19 y.o. Veteran

http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-vet-brutally-murdered/
Gay vet brutally murdered
By 365gay Newscenter Staff
02.13.2009 12:08pm EST

[xchrom]

59. if this student had made a racist diatribe as his assignment -- there wouldn't be even half

the duers here defending that.

[dsc]

64. One can think the professor was wrong

without defending the student's speech. The professor was out of line here unless he made it clear before the speech that Biblical references were out of bounds. I am presuming that a racist speech would have been forbidden before the speech was given but I suspect this hadn't been.

[xchrom]

65. i'm not surprised that you don't think that biblically refrenced racial diatribes

can't be given.

my original point stands --

[bluedawg12]

67. one can't think the professor did anything, every story has two sides.

I will wait to hear the professor's side first, before I form an opinion about him.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Matteson
John Matteson (born March 3, 1961 in San Mateo, California) is a full professor of English and legal writing at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He won the 2008 Pulitzer Prize for Biography for his first book, Eden's Outcasts: The Story of Louisa May Alcott and Her Father.

Matteson is the son of Thomas D. Matteson, a former airline executive, and Rosemary H. Matteson, who worked as a commercial artist and fashion designer before becoming a homemaker.

Matteson attended Menlo School in Menlo Park, California. He earned a bachelor's degree in history from Princeton University in 1983, a J.D. from Harvard Law School in 1986, and a Ph.D. in English from Columbia University in 1999. He served as a law clerk for U.S. District Court Judge Terrence W. Boyle before working as a litigation attorney in San Francisco and in Raleigh, North Carolina. He has written articles for a wide variety of publications, including the New England Quarterly, Streams of William James, and Leviathan. He is a former treasurer of the Melville Society and is a member of the Louisa May Alcott Society's advisory board. He married Michelle Rollo in 1991. They have a daughter.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[bronxbear]

75. Wrong Guy!!!

Please Note!!!

The Wikipedia entry quoted by bluedawg12 DOES NOT concern John Matteson, the professor at LACC who allegedly called Jonathan Lopez a "fascist bastard." The professor with the Wikipedia page is yours truly, John Matteson at JOHN JAY COLLEGE in New York City. I do not berate students and call them nasty names. I am a Pulitzer-Prize winning biographer who reads for the blind, sponsors a poor kid in India, and likes flowers and kittens. PLEASE do not confuse me with the West-Coaster of the same name. Thank you.

[mitchtv]

76. Thank you professor

I was wondering why this old post was resurrected

[dsc]

68. like it or not

they are considered different by most people. The professor could have told him before the speech, when he picked the topic, what was and wasn't OK. Clearly he didn't.

[bluedawg12]

69. Have you noticed how easy it is to judge someone who has not ever responded?

We only know one side of the story. Of course if we google this law suit, every rightwing blog has picked up on it.

I wonder, when was the last time free speech was enjoyed by a speaker at Liberty U on a pro-same sex marriage topic?

So, we know the man is a heterosexual and not gay.

We seem to know, that he was offended by PHate 8 and said in class after Hate8: Everyone who voted for Hate 8 is a fascist bastard.

So, when the plaintiff came in with his speech, the content of which has not been posted yet, as far as I can tell, was he baiting the Prof? Pee-yew.

We haven't heard from the Prof. so we can hear from some of his students:

http://surveys.relevantview.com/sbox/asandboxdev.sbt/00000,,,0,0/http/www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=435425&page=1

9/10/08 Speec101 5 3 3 4 This guy is awesome and very funny! Take this speech class easy A..even if you are scared of public speaking..just show and be interested in what he says even if it has nothing to do with the class(most of the time)..we never used text only 2 speeches and one written all semester..great class :)
5/30/08 speec101 3 5 5 3 Never met another professor who really cares about students more than he does.He is very funny and caring.I used to be very fearful of giving a speech but now I feel so liberated!If you honestly try, he'll be more than just reasonable with you.Enjoyed his class a lot.Such a brilliant person and an awesome professor with a big heart!TAKE HIS CLASS!
1/3/08 Speec101 5 5 5 1 Mr. John I must say you kept it real and I will always remember that. Even though miss a couple of classes you are a down to earth guy even if we are close to the same age haha. Hey man you take care and for anyone wanting to take speech I highly highly recommend him. Very down to earth and you will do well in the class believe me. Hes cool.
1/23/07 spch101 5 5 5 5 Easy Class. Excellent instructor. Definately funny and down to earth. He has lots of patience and very helpful. He makes you feel comfortable. I highly recommend him.
1/19/07 Speec101 5 5 5 5 If you show up & try you should be able to pull out an 'A'. He likes to go on rants but is very entertaining. Definitely marches to his own drum, in a good way!
7/20/06 Speech 101 5 5 5 5 he's hilarious!!! i actually wanted to come to class!!!
7/14/06 Speech 101 5 5 5 5 Very Humble Person. Has a Great Sense of Humor. He has great points of view, my opinion. Did miss some classes here and there, but hey ish happens! I do recommend him 100%.
5/31/06 speech 104 4 5 5 3 great teacher!
Page: 1 2 3 4 5

...........

I will wait till I hear all sides of this relative non-story, before I condemn a guy.

Why is is a non story? Because the good Professor, if he did act as alleged, acted on his own behalf, not mine and not any gay rights groups. In the meantime bigots in Utah are calling gays anti-species as frequently as rain drops falling during a pre-trib rapture thunder storm. :eyes:

But, first the facts.

[xchrom]

70. as usual -- i'm with you --

and great examples -- btw.

what i KNOW is that if a student stood up to give a speech with it laced with the 'n word' -- and horse shit about racial superiority -- it would be stopped.

why should anti-gay speech -- given the history of proveable and horrifying discrimination -- be allowed in a class.

[FreeState]

71. Not only that - if your going to grant a student free rain on speech...

why not the teacher? I thought we all had the same rights? Freedom of speech is not just for students.

[xchrom]

72. ain't that right. nt

[insleeforprez]

73. A good professor...

...wouldn't have called someone who had made a racial diatribe a "fascist bastard." A good professor would use that as a learning tool and rationally dispel everything that the student just said.