Mormons arrest gay couple for kissing in Salt Lake City

[hulklogan]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12811907">In the Salt Lake Tribune

A gay couple says they were detained by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints security guards after one man kissed another on the cheek Thursday on Main Street Plaza.

"They targeted us," said Matt Aune, 28. "We weren't doing anything inappropriate or illegal, or anything most people would consider inappropriate for any other couple."

<snip>

Aune said the incident started when he and Jones were walking back to their Salt Lake City home from a Twilight Concert Series show at the Gallivan Center. The couple live just blocks away from the plaza in the Marmalade district of the Capitol Hill neighborhood.

The pair crossed the plaza holding hands, Aune said. About 20 feet from the edge of the plaza, Aune said he stopped, put his arm on Jones' back and kissed him on the cheek.

------------------------------

The story goes on to say that security guards then confronted the couple saying that public displays of affection were not allowed on church property, then threw one of the men to the ground and handcuffed him when he complained that opposite couples hold hands and kiss in the area all the time.

What makes this story even worse is that Main Street Plaza apparently used to be city property, but was sold to the LDS church in the 1990s and now the Mormon security guards can now arrest gay couples for holding hands in that space.

edited to add link to the story

[Teaser]

1. how the fuck do they have authority to make arrests?

for non-crimes, no less.

[valerief]

2. Utah isn't the U.S. anymore. Actually, the U.S. isn't the U.S. anymore. nt

[paulsby]

4. depends what you mean by arrest

a private citizen, to include security guards protecting private property have the right to briefly stop people on their own property and ask them to leave. technically, the stop could be considered an "arrest" but... if their policy is that it is ok for hetero couples to kiss on their property, but NOT gay couples, then they may run into some legal trouble if their property is a place where the public has access as invitees or licensees. an example would be, for example, a shopping mall. i don't know what kind of property this "plaza" is. either way, it's disgusting bigotry, that much is clear

[sui generis]

36. so can they be jailed or fined, or otherwise prosecuted for kissing?

We really need to learn how to fight back. I have half a mind to go to Utah and stage a kiss-in. They don't have enough security guards.

[imdjh]

3. The sold the whole damned street to the LDS church, as I understand it.

So that the church could control what happens in front of the temple.

By the way, have you ever been to Clearwater? The Scientology security guards are everywhere.

[and-justice-for-all]

5. Those guards do not have authority to do jack shit....

you can not even be detained by them, sorry...I would sue their asses off.

Assault as well, nice...big check coming if they sue.

You can be asked to leave but they have no right to handcuff you or handle them as they did. If they were vandalizing the property maybe, or harassing people, then they might be able to use handcuffs and such..

"Mormon security guards can now arrest gay couples for holding hands in that space." Arrest by security for nonviolent acts is no possible and if other couples are doing it and they do not 'arrest' them, it is time to call the ACLU and Lambda Legal.

[lindisfarne]

14. Mormon church has lots of money, too, but you'd have to have the case outside of a UT court.nt

[Sophie-Helene]

6. Mormons arrest gay couple for kissing in Salt Lake City

Research and inspection into the foundations of the Mormon religion have created a lot of questions about it's authenticity. The founder, Joseph Smith, seems to have created the religion's rules and "revelations" based on his own whims. And how many people's lives have been damaged or lost based on the words of this man? It's heartbreaking.

[and-justice-for-all]

7. I always ask if they have found those golden plates yet...nt

[Sophie-Helene]

9. I always ask if they have found those golden plates yet...nt

I just finished his biography by Fawn Brodie. People DIED for him. In his name. Over and over again. He ORDERED it. And saw the carnage and butchered bodies. I can't understand such a human being.

[kestrel91316]

10. Joseph Smith was a real tawdry piece of work. So was Brigham Young.

[and-justice-for-all]

11. maddness.....

didn't that nut talk into a hat or some bullshit like that? and his assistance wife knew Smith was a nutter, because when they lost the first script of nonsense, she wanted to challenge Smith by seeing if he could recite the very same BS...or something like that.

[Sophie-Helene]

15. maddness.....

Answering your first point. Before Joseph Smith was a prophet, he divined the location of treasure by using magic peep stones. He placed the peep stones into a hat and then put his face into the hat and the location of the treasure would be shown to him. He was hired by multiple business men for the purpose of finding treasure for them. He never could successfully locate any treasure. So they sued him and called him a fraud. When he met and fell in love with Emma Hale (his future wife), one of the reasons her father did not want her to marry him is because he was a fraudulent lying cheating charlatan and they were quite a respectable family. She fell in love with him anyway and ran away and married him. (Apparently, Joseph Smith was quite a handsome man.)

About your second point. After Joseph Smith had discovered the gold tablets and "translated" the majority of them, he needed some money. He and Emma were incredibly poor. He had a handful of followers at this time. One of them was quite wealthy and he wanted to help Joseph Smith by giving him the money. In fact, Joseph Smith had a revelation that God demanded that this man give him the money, so he was very eager to comply; but his wife was being very uncooperative. In fact, she thought Smith was a fraud. So the man asked Smith if he could take the translated pages of the "Book" and show them to her as proof of the divine nature of their project. Joseph agreed. The man took the translated work to the wife. She took them and apparently burned them. She stated that if it was really the work of God, Smith could replicate it.

Sorry for the longevity. This is also going by memory only, so I give it a 90% accuracy rating.

[FreeState]

17. Pretty close...

Joseph also translated the Book of Mormon with "interpreters" that he placed in a hat. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_stone_(Latter_Day_Saints)

In translating the Book of Mormon from the Golden Plates, Smith said he used "interpreters," a pair of crystals joined in the form of a large pair of spectacles, which he later referred to as "Urim and Thummim." In 1823 Smith said that an angel told him of the existence of Golden Plates, along with which would be found "two stones in silver bows" fastened to a breastplate, which the angel called the Urim and Thummim and which he said God had prepared for translating the plates.<9> (His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, described them as crystal-like: "two smooth three-cornered diamonds.")<10> Smith and his early Mormon contemporaries seem to have used the terms "seer stone" and "Urim and Thummim" interchangeably. Although Smith always referred to the Book of Mormon "interpreters" as the Urim and Thummim, he may or may not have intended to make a distinction between that device and the seer stones that he used in scrying.<11> In the Book of Mormon, prophets such as the Brother of Jared and Mosiah also use devices called "interpreters" to receive revelation for their people, and the Doctrine and Covenants declares these interpreters to have been Urim and Thummim.<12>

http://www.lds-mormon.com/jsmith.shtml

Isaac found Joseph sitting at a table with a hat over his face, uttering long Biblical phrases. Emma sat behind a curtain, hidden from Joseph, while she wrote down the words Joseph was speaking. On the table-top in front of Joseph sat some square object concealed by a cloth. When Joseph removed his hat from his face, Isaac could see two stones in the hat, similar to the stones Joseph had used in divining the location of the "buried Spanish treasure."

Martin Harris was the guy who funded the first printing of the Book of Mormon, his wife stole the first transcript of the Book of Mormon - which Joseph then claimed was not needed because God knew it would happen and repeated the information in the portion he had yet to translate.

Just an FYI - Martin Harris is my 4th Great Grandfather.

[Sophie-Helene]

18. Pretty close...

So have you checked in your attic??? (I kid!)

According to the biography of J. Smith that I have, the missing pages never turned up again; so the supposition is that they were burned. Precautions were also taken just in case they DID turn up, by adding certain statements in the new text that somehow disavowed the first text. The bio also says that J. Smith used the opportunity to start over from the beginning to make the book more of a religious teaching and less of a history of the Mormon people. Does that agree with your learning?

[and-justice-for-all]

26. What a load of horse shit...nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. Here's the whole story..... sort of.

Yeah, it's got a South Park Spin on it, but Trey Parker was actually raised LDS, so the representation of Mormonism is accurate......

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103933

[izquierdista]

12. They are in the back of the hutch

Behind everything else, because they only get used at Christmas time to put cookies on.

[and-justice-for-all]

13. Haha...nt

[GReedDiamond]

8. I hope the gay couple files a civil lawsuit against...

...these scum-sucking religious freaks.

Unlawful detention, violation of their civil rights, intentional infliction of emotional distress....

Fuck the mormons, I'm sick of their bullshit. They're nothing more than a depraved cult of sexually repressed deviates and troublemakers.

[David Zephyr]

16. Civil lawsuit. Milion$

Oh, yeah, they'll have to pay up for this one.

[Libertas1776]

19. Well

color me surprised :sarcasm:

I remember watching an episode of City Confidential on Salt Lake City and how corrupt it is, and how the Mormon church basically runs everything, all the city offices law enforcement etc like a theocratic state.
The episode was a few years ago but I'm pretty damn sure nothing has changed.

What the Mormons say goes; forget about civil liberties as a gay person if you plan on going there. And If I am wrong, if someone is a native please let me know, otherwise, as the story would tell that is the way things roll in Utah.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Mormonism is recently devised fiction

that hate filled bigots use to explain their own rotten souls. To rationalize their prejudice and fear.

[MNBrewer]

22. and is similar to less-recently devised fictions

such as christianity, etc, etc, etc.

[mitchtv]

21. Their time will come

I hope and I hope it gets real bad for them. I heard a good insult on "weeds" , "Mormon face"

[YoungAndOutraged]

23. Would anyone else stand up to these cops if this happened to you?

I know I would, as I don't accept things like this without a fight. But apparently that makes you "a real shit bag" if you say it outside the GLBT forum...

[Q3JR4]

25. I'd go with 50 of my closest gay friends, a

couple a video cameras, notify the national media and then dare them to arrest us all.

Maybe a couple of banners reading various slogan.... you know something like: "Mormons, guardians of marriage since 1890" with a picture of a single smiling man and fifteen wives.

We might all get arrested, but it would take the fight to the mormons for a change.

Q3JR4.

[Q3JR4]

24. All right then,

on to Utah!

Wonder what they would think if 1000 or 10000 homosexual couples showed up to do the exact same thing...

Q3JR4
Wants to be bad for the cause.

[TokenQueer]

27. Outrageous!

:mad:

[ShadowLiberal]

28. Churches even need security guards... WHY?!?

Seriously, what kind of a church needs a security guard, not too many people are going to say to themselves "I think I'll go rob a church, there's lots of money to take there". Most churches can barely even afford to pay their pastor & the bills to keep a church building running, let alone afford security outside of locks on the doors or a fence.

[mitchtv]

29. Haters always live in fear

the spirits of evil will haunt their hypocritic cult

[Sebastian Doyle]

31. And if a church is supposed to be the "House of God"

Then shouldn't the Lord provide His own muscle?

[Iggo]

32. How DARE you people bash others for their religious beliefs.

:sarcasm: <--- for the challenged

[mrbarber]

33. This call for a "Kissdown"

Couples-both gay and straight-need to go to Main Street Plaza and kiss.

Oh sorry, I guess I'm not "respecting" their religious beliefs and being intolerant.

[Toasterlad]

34. I Totally Agree With You.

I would LOVE to see this plaza mobbed by kissing people of all orientations, and film just exactly how these religious jackoffs handle it.

[romantico]

35. DISAPPOINTED

I am pretty disappointed. I was on another message board that has mostly gay people and they seem to be defending the Mormons. They keep saying the 2 guys were trespassing and by kissing they were asking for trouble and they caused a scene and used profanity. I have asked why they are taking the word of the Mormons. Here are some of the responses I am getting:

"The entire square around the temple is private property. The couple was asked to stop kissing, which is something they would have also asked a straight couple.

The guys didn't leave and began to make a scene, which is why they were han cuffed.

All they had to do was leave the private property and they could have kissed all they wanted to"

"They were, indeed, on private property. They, themselves, said they've seen other couples holding hands and cuddling....but they didn't mention KISSING.

The issue SEEMS to be: they did not leave when asked to do so which becomes TRESPASSING and then CHOSE To cause a scene. One even mentions that the other tried to instigate them into SAYING it was because they were gay.

Just because they are gay, doesn't mean they are always going to be right.

I have a number of Mormon friends that have no issues with gay folk."

"I NEVER thought these words would come out of my mouth, but I'm on the Mormons side on this one.

The guys should have known better, and now they are making a bigger scene, which only embarrasses us all."

"What did they expect would happen making out in Temple Square! IMO I think if we want them to have respect for our beliefs we need to respect theirs".

Keep in mind, these response are coming from gay people. Couple more.

"They were kissing on private property owned by people who think what they are doing is immoral. If they were intentionally protesting, then admit to it and call it that. If they weren't thinking about it, it was an honest mistake, but still a mistake. If they refused to leave, then they were trespassing. I wouldn't walk into a Catholic church wearing a pentagram and devil horns. My girlfriend and I know where to have our PDAs and where not to. I agree with Jonny in that we have to respect their beliefs if we expect them to respect ours."

"I hate that they did this....but honestly, they were doing it in front of a Mormon church, so what did they expect? I know Church's here get huffy when couples kiss (unless it is a quick peck). I understand the bigotry and am disgusted by it, but it IS private property and if they were asked to leave and they started making a scene, well it is their fault for the police involvement, IMHO."

ANd my favorite:

"I understand your point of view but, just because the Mormons are not tolerant of us doesn't mean that we should be intolerant of them. 2 wrongs don't make a right! You may be the ones who need to be more open minded!We need to give everyone the "right" to make there own choices about what is right and what is wrong. I think it is obvious that many here don't agree with the decision the Mormon Church made, but isn't that to be expected? Using phrases like "The hateful Mormon's are at it again" and "The Mormon Church (all Churches Really) should be done away with" only condemns us in our own ignorance, because the instant they are said you immediately lose credibility."

I got all these comments because I simply asked why they were taking the word of the Mormons over the 2 gay guys?

[xchrom]

37. it's the internet -- can't know if they are gay.

and yes -- people pose all over the place -- including gay sites.