Is there anyone here who can tell me how anyone

[Eloriel]

could consider "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" to be homophobic?? Any argument, any evidence or documentation that could make that case??

I've heard that posited and it mystifies me. I've found it pretty darned pro-gay, myself. Have I missed something? Am I wrong?

Thanks in advance.

[ironman202]

1. i've heard peple liken it to a mintrel show

but I still watch. I think the show is great. But I can see how you could argue that the show reinforces stereotypes.

[BattyDem]

2. Homophobic? I never heard that one before ..

I think it's pro-gay. (I'm not gay, so maybe I'm missing something that's offensive.) Sure, some of the straight guys may be a bit uncomfortable at first, but they always come around by the end and they genuinely grow to like and respect the Fab Five. Many of them come right out and say that the FF changed their attitude towards homosexuals.

Earlier this season, there was one guy who was an obvious homophobe and stayed that way (I can't remember his name), but he was the exception. And ... Carson often says some very suggestive things and makes passes at the guys, but I've never seen anyone get angry at him. I think a diehard homophobe would beat the crap out of him, LOL!

[kweerwolf]

3. I don't think it's homophobic ...

... but it sure does turn my stomach to watch those brainless twits.

I watched the first two season, a few episodes from the third season, and then quit watching it all together. The characters are certainly the worst possible stereotypes and I could not summon up an ounce of caring about any of them. I've heard that later seasons got better. I guess that's possible since it couldn't have gotten any worse.

Maybe it's my long dormant Puritan genes kicking in, but frankly I was ashamed at the show. It certainly doesn't speak for my life and, while there are some in the gay community like the characters, I'd hate to be associated with them.

[Eloriel]

4. Okay, I can see "stereotypes," altho I have enjoyed the show

myself, having discovered it in last year sometime (I'm can be a little slow on the uptake on some things).

I think the men are warm, caring, fun, zany, creative, etc. and I have enjoyed seeing gay men presented as reasonably well-rounded human beings almost anyone (but the worst homophobe) could get to know and like.

Thanks for the responses.

[sst]

5. It's not that it's homophobic...

it just makes being gay more "pallatable" to the average breeder. Those non-offensive, "zany" gays on tv won't cause any problems right? As soon as any gay person wants to be more than a humorous sidekick on a sitcom or a stereotype on a makeover show, then those straight folk will be "offended". Things are easier to digest when they're watered-down and inoffensive.

I seem to remember a show Queer Eye did called "Queer Eye for the Gay Guy", it was a one-off special they did. That gay man in that show is what most gays are: normal. Doesn't have perfect skin, hair, body, fashion sense. He's just himself. And they turned him into a boring robotic clone of the Fab 5, except he's fat, which must have drove them fucking insane.

I think maybe he was the first and only fat gay guy shown on TV. That could be some sort of landmark.

[Maven]

7. I think the only word you left out is "asexual."

It's not that it's overtly homophobic, it's that it portrays gay men as asexual caricatures--the "fab five" (ugh) are homo but not sexual. They're non-threatening foppish clowns, not real people with their own lives. Their only purpose is to serve as handmaidens to hetero love--i.e., a cause "greater" than themselves. Each one even fills his own niche.

But they're so darn CUTE aren't they?

:eyes:

[sst]

8. Doormats is another good word for them.

Of all the Queer Eye shows I've watched, the one with the gay guy they tried to "makeover" is the one I remember most.

This guy was fat, shy, bitchy, and himself. You could totally tell he was depressed towards the end. Carson even forced him to "ask out" some impossibly perfect guy who worked at a store they were at. He didn't even SHOW UP at the end of the episode. If this was real life, the clerk wouldn'tve even have noticed him. They just aren't in the same worlds. Was Carson just setting that guy up for disappointment? Sheesh.

Maybe this is partly why I'm so adamant on being yourself. Hey I'm fat, hairy, and I feel great. So what. I know what group I belong to, I don't try to be someone I'm not. I'd rather be noticed than ignored, and feel good looking rather than some fat troll.

Plus, Carson's fashion sense sucks anyways. :yoiks: He's totally gonna need hairplugs in 5 years.

[best left blank]

12. Well put.

Kudos.

[foreigncorrespondent]

6. I can't answer your question...

...about Queer Eye (I don't watch it) but if it is anything like The L Word, then there will be cause for alarm.

I love The L Word, but what pisses me off about it is, it isn't exactly representative of the lesbian community.

They portray us as all being femme, pretty, skinny, and all in high powered jobs, or business owners, and that isn't the case. Yes there are lesbians in high powered positions or business owners, but not all of us are fortunate enough to look like Jennifer Beals or Kate Moennig. (And speaking of Kate, her character Shane is a perfect example of this. She went from being a hairdresser in a salon to being a hairdresser for the rich and famous.)

If they are going to create shows based on the gay community then they need to represent the gay community in a proper way. I say this because, it is their misrepresentation of our community that causes homophobia in the first place.

It is like the Bush* admin. They are very homophobic, it comes out in their words and actions, and all it does is cause more hatred for a community.

So if it is anything like that, it could very well be bordering on homophobia.

[dsc]

9. Several problems

First, the use of the word queer. Yes, I know it has become the new gay for people, but given that this show is geared toward straights I think using queer was a big mistake. I don't like straight people calling me queer. I had enough of that when I was in school.

Second, It is a little on the stereotypical side. Frankly the only person on the show who I could remotely come close to on knowledge of his craft is the guy who does food, and even there I am not all that close.

Third, I also don't like the approaching minstrel show quality.

That said it has some positive benefits. Seeing any gays on TV is good. Having them be sought after for advice is better. Having them treated well is better yet. So I wouldn't use homophobic but I would say they could do better.

[sst]

14. I suppose I'm the only one who uses "queer" as a positive.

Frankly even "queer" is a tad watered down for me. I called myself a faggot freely and I think it makes the word lose its negative meaning. It's the one positive that Queer Eye has.

Sure, who hasn't been called a "fag" or "faggot", but if you embrace it, then it can't get to you.

Words are words, and actions are what offends me.

Or at least that's how I see it.

[Solar]

10. For once I'd like to see

For once I'd like to see on TV a gay character that DOESN'T talk with a lisp. I agree with dsc, while the some of the 5 are less campy than the others, after a while it all just turns into a stereotype. I think the Showtime series 'Queer as Folk' avoided this well enough. There are people without lisps, without designer clothes, people who just look NORMAL.

We've come a long way in Hollywood, but its still going to be a long time until homosexuality can be discussed without stereotypes.

[BR_Parkway]

11. My problem with QAF was it reinforced the stereotypes that we're

all out a bars every night, picking up anyone and everyone, cause it's all about the sex you know?

My life is so boringly normal, I would hope that people watching that show didn't think we're all that way.

[Solar]

23. I'm not saying QAF was perfect

I'm not saying QAF was a perfect stereotype-free show, because its obviously not. I just using it for that one small example.

[davidinalameda]

13. I like the show

I have no problems with it

Carson is a big old queen and yes, we do have big old queens in the gay community

[jackelope72]

15. Yes, we do have big old queens in the gay community...

But we also have ordinary schlubs. We have genuinely masculine, semi-closeted blue-collar workers. We have fat hairy guys and pimply teenagers and regular, boring people who go out, do their regular, boring jobs, and come home to eat their regular, boring food and watch t.v. Or who come home to a loving, steady, monogamous relationship complete with children and/or pets. Shows like "Queer Eye" don't show the straight community that kind of spectrum. All they get to see are the flashy, bright-eyed, perky, insanely fashionable queens that some t.v. producers have decided they're comfortable putting out there in front of the world.

[davidinalameda]

16. you have 5 gay guys on the show

you're not going to get a cross section

it's entertainment--they want the flashy bright-eyed perky guys to draw in viewers

[Meldread]

17. I have to agree with the majority here.

The whole damn show is based on the premise of a stereotype. Not all gay people are fashion experts, interior decorators, or hygiene experts. The majority of us have ordinary lives and ordinary jobs. That doesn't even go into mentioning the personalities sought out to play the various roles.

Every time I watch the damn show (which is almost never) Carlson is hogging the camera, and at the end of a show I'm practically homophobic myself. Can Carlson make himself anymore gay? Can he possibly ooze anymore gayness -- doesn't he have anything outside of that? He is completely hollow and shallow and pathetic.

I mean, damn it. Does he HAVE to want to shove his tongue down the throat of everything with a penis? Seriously, the guy needs to learn some self control and tone it down a little bit. I think I'd end up strangling Carlson if I had to be stuck with him for a day. He'd annoy me to no end, he needs a life outside of gayness.

I want to see a show with the main character being a middle age, overweight and balding, police detective... who just happened to be gay. He'd live in a messy studio apartment and have a pet dog who is a golden retriever named "Old Joe". His love life would suck. He'd work himself to the bone and desperately want to find someone to settle down with but can't seem to find the time to even go out and date. He'd also suffer some discrimination from his fellow co-workers who know he is gay, get passed over for promotions because of it, have to put up with comments about him behind his back, etc. etc. Basically a REAL gay person.

[jackelope72]

19. They'd have to get good writers, though.

I remember a few years ago there was a show that featured John Goodman (one of my personal heroes) as a gay man - he may have been a cop, I don't remember - who had a grown-up son who had some problems with his gayness. I desperately wanted to like the show, but the writing was just not that good.

[Sapphocrat]

18. "Minstrel show"

ironman202 nailed it. It's not that the premise of the show is homophobic -- it's that I feel like I'm watching five gay Stepin Fetchits.

My visceral reaction to Carson Kressley, especially, is the same as my reaction to Jack of "Will & Grace": I want to slap him.

Positive portrayals of gay men and lesbians are few and far between (and with the demise of "Queer as Folk," "Six Feet Under," et al., gay folks are rapidly disappearing from the small screen again). So when we are visible, it galls me that shows like QEFTSG and W&G present such one-dimensional characters -- or, more accurately, caricatures -- presumably to make gay men more palatable and less threatening to the general public.

(There's a reason Will can't have a lasting, meaningful relationship -- but a discussion of that would go far afield of the original topic. Suffice to say, if Will -- the "normal" gay guy on W&G -- ever found true happiness, he wouldn't need Grace anymore, and his neurotic, practically infantile dependency on her would be replaced by a real, live, grown-up relationship with another man. And then how uncomfortable would straight audiences be? Very.)

With lesbians, it works in reverse. Apparently, real lesbians are so much more threatening than gay men, we're airbrushed into Penthouse-style unrecognizability (i.e., "The L Word").

The use of the word "queer" is also problematic. Remember the Simpsons episode where Homer was complaining about gay folks' use of the word? "That's OUR word for YOU!"

It's one thing when gay people use it, and another thing when straight people use it -- because, 90% of the time, when a straight person uses the word "queer," it's not meant as a term of endearment.

I use the word "queer" freely -- but I can. I'm not black, so I wouldn't dream of using the N word -- and I don't profess to even begin to understand the "proper" context of the N word among African-Americans. All I know is that the N word makes me very, very uncomfortable, no matter who says it, or in what context. So, I suppose that the word "queer" in the title of the show has the same effect on a lot of straight people.

That's what I gather, anyway, judging from the horrified reaction I've seen from time to time from straight DUers who don't know what to do with the word. My advice: If you have any doubt about a word, pick a different word. "Gay" works, and doesn't offend anyone (unless you're a 14-year-old using it as criticism; i.e., "That's SO gay!").

They could have just called it "Gay Eye for the Straight Guy."

In the end, maybe QEFTSG does have some positive purpose, even if it's only to reassure straight folks that five gay men plus one straight guy does not equal gang rape.

I wrote at the beginning of this post that it's not that the premise of the show is homophobic. I'm not sure I was correct. I think there's something inherently wrong with any show whose novelty appeal is based solely on the minority status of its stars.

Can you imagine the howls over "Christian Eye for the Jew Guy"?

[best left blank]

20. I think...

that Harvey Korman nailed it. The 'queer eye' is only good or valuable in its service to hetero relationships. Especially problematic when you consider the fact that queer expertise is limited to the realm of the superficial. While the hetero man is fully capable of capturing the heart of a woman, he is unable to impress her on her level (the superficial) until the queer eyes come along.

[Zhade]

21. Me, I just find it pretentious and boring.

My main problem with it is that it seems to address a narrow range of queerdom.

Of course, YMMV!

[hippiegranny]

22. I love it, myself.

I think there are those who think that any time a stereotype is highlighted it is some sort of slap. Personally, I don't see why anyone should be offended that gay men are considered very good at the things Queer Eye highlights. As a general rule, they are! OUt of my many men friends that are gay, there is only one who lives more like a straight guy!