Just another reason why homophobia makes me so angry.

[grace0418]

Someone very close to me (I'll call her Lisa) is cheating on her husband with a woman. Lisa is a wonderful person, so is her husband "Matt". They have two beautiful daughters. Lisa is cheating with the daughters' volleyball coach, which is going to devastate the girls when they find out. They live in a very red area in a very red state and I doubt the other kids are going to be very kind about the information when it gets around.

Matt is totally heart-broken but he loves her enough to let her go find happiness.

I support both of them no matter what but I can't help but think about Lisa parents. I know them very well and know that they are total homophobes. If her parents hadn't make it clear that they would disown any child of theirs who "decided" to be gay, maybe she wouldn't be breaking Matt's heart right now. She wouldn't have had to wait until her mid-40s to search for true happiness. She might have been free to live her life all this time. It makes me sad. And angry. The self-loathing they instilled in her from birth has created such a huge amount of fallout now. And they don't even know yet.

Homophobia fucking sucks.

[donheld]

1. Homophobia kills - we all know that

We must do all we can to end Homophobia where ever it is.

[daleanime]

2. That's true about all hate.

nt

[grace0418]

3. That's true. It's just when you can look across decades and see the damage

that can be done by it in one family to one daughter, it really underscores how two unassuming people, generally nice but with some bigoted views can change a generation without even knowing it. It's easy to see the big hate crimes and outward bigotry by the Fred Phelps of the world, but it's the subtle bigotry that sometimes goes unnoticed.

[pnwmom]

4. Right. People like those parents push the traditional gay marriage --

gay people marrying straight people.

And it rarely works for anyone in the family, least of all the children of the unhappy gay person and the spouse.

[grace0418]

11. I'm just really sad about it. I'm disappointed at some of the choices Lisa is making right

now but I'm not angry with her. I would love it if they could stay together and be happy but it doesn't look like that's possible. All I can do is send love and hope for what's best for everyone.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

5. When Will People Understand That?

homophobia does no one any good? I was in this situation over thirty years ago. I entered a straight marriage with a wonderful man, but six years later we divorced. My decision, not his. I had a couple of girlfriends on the side--the whole bit. My ex and I stayed good friends until he died sixteen years ago, but I could have saved him and myself a lot of trouble and unhappiness. I was honest with him when I married but I never "turned straight" or anything that was touted at the time. In my mid-fifties I finally met an incredible lady and we married legally in Canada in 2007. My mother who had been very homophobic when I was young (though I came out in college, she never disowned me like this woman's mum threatened to do. However towards the end, she changed her mind and totally accepted my hersband as a daughter-in-lawand attended our wedding.

My heart goes out to everyone in this situation. I was very lucky but I have seen many times the tragedies that homophobia can create. I do feel badly for her kids because once this gets out, these kids are not going to have an easy time of it. WHY can't these homophobes get it into their heads that homophobia helps no one? Most of the time it creates a lie that hurts and ruins innocent lives. I really wish this family all the best because healing is not going to be fast or easy. My hope is that both "Lisa" and her ex-husband go on to find happiness and that they will be their for their daughters, which it sounds as if they will. If only people would let their kids be who they are. Homosexuality hurts no one--the lies homophobia can create can destroy lives.

[grace0418]

12. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad you were able to find happiness and

acceptance. You know Matt is a fairly traditional guy but I've challenged his beliefs over the years (we've known each other for about 20 years) and I'm glad I did. He told me the other day that I've helped him accept who she is and not be so angry. If they can stay friends that's going to make life so much easier for those girls. I just hope school isn't hell for them from now on. Up until now they've been very popular and have tons of friends, but I know first-hand what being an outcast can do to your self-esteem as a teenager.

Her parents, I don't know if they can be swayed. I always have hope, even Dick Cheney loves his own daughter, but the whole extended family is pretty homophobic it's going to be tough.

"If only people would let their kids be who they are." You said it perfectly. :hug:

[pnwmom]

18. Please tell the kids about COLAGE, which is a group of other

kids, even adult kids, like them.

There are three online groups as well as opportunities for in-person get-togethers in some of the major cities. The online groups are divided into kids under 14, those 14-22, and those over 22.

It's a great group that has given support to many kids of gays, lesbians, and transgendered people through the coming out process and beyond.

www.colage.org

For the dad, there's also a group called the "Straight Spouse Network."

www.straightspouse.org

And there's a good book, "The Other Side of the Closet: The Coming Out Process . . . " by Amity Pierce Buxton.

[grace0418]

19. Thank you so much! Great info. I will pass it along

to them. :hi:

[pnwmom]

20. I can highly recommend the COLAGE group -- it's a wonderful resource

and I only wish it had been around when my father was coming out.

[grace0418]

21. It looks like there is even a chapter in the area they live, which surprises the hell

out of me. I can't thank you enough.

[pnwmom]

22. Great!!!! I'm so glad. n/t

[paulsby]

6. i don't get the assumption

you equate her affair with another woman with the search for true happiness. is she in fact a lesbian? iow, do you know she is, or are you suspecting it? having a same sex affair doesn't necesarily mean she has lesbian or even bisexual orientation? it's at best suggestive of same. just as being married to an opposite sex person doesn't necessarily mean you are a heterosexual.

many people have affairs (same sex or not) for any # of reasons besides a search for true happiness, after all.

[grace0418]

9. There are more details that I didn't reveal.

These details lead me (and "Matt") to believe that she's struggled with this for a long time and is, in fact a lesbian. Actually, I don't think this particular affair is an attempt to find happiness with someone. I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was equating the two. The other person is practically a child and doesn't sound at all interested in a long-term relationship. Lisa's behavior right now has all the classic signs of being a raging mid-life crisis (not just the affair but a bunch of other stuff too). But it's a crisis she may not have been facing with such painful consequences if she'd been encouraged to be who she was.

[paulsby]

24. fair enough

that makes sense

[WVRICK13]

7. This Outcome is More Common

than you know. Or worse yet those poor tortured souls who manage to hide the relationship and stay married. It results in the mental anguish of everyone involved. Stop the pain and protect marriage by allowing those who love each other to marry without fear.

[grace0418]

10. Actually, I know three people in my life who,

I am utterly convinced, are closeted homosexuals but are married with kids. Three of the unhappiest people I've ever met. Oddly enough, all three were raised Catholic and still practice, all three have careers and interests usually more associated with liberals but are staunch Republicans, all three have drinking problems.

And I'm not casually making this judgment because of one affectation or quirk. I work in a field where nearly everyone is liberal and many are openly gay. So when other people meet these three they automatically assume they are gay. Not as a negative judgment, just as something you notice about someone like red hair or a style of dress. And, without fail, when it is revealed that they are married with kids and staunch Republicans the universal reaction is "What?! NO!!! But how can...? What?! That makes no sense!" And it really doesn't. It makes me sad that they live such unhappy lives, and it makes me angry that their unhappiness affects everyone around them.

And if these people, living in a big city like Chicago, working in fields that are very liberal, still feel they can't be their true selves, what hope do people living in small, uber-conservative towns have? It breaks my heart.

[racaulk]

8. This is a perfect example of why homophobia (and all bigotry) is so toxic.

Homophobia is not just harmful to those of us that are gay, it's harmful to everyone. I think it's especially harmful when gay people internalize the homophobia of those around them to the extent that they build a wall around themselves and live a lie to prevent others finding out their true nature. Because when that wall comes crashing down around them and they realize they must be true to themselves to be truly happy, they are faced with a choice of continuing to harm themselves or to hurt the people they love that they had convinced of their lie. That must be an incredibly difficult choice to make.

There are so many innocent victims of homophobia in the case you describe, including Lisa. Homophobia sucks, and the harm it causes is so awful and totally unnecessary.

I'm so sorry about your friends. I hope they are all able to find happiness and make peace with this. :hug:

K&R

[grace0418]

13. Thanks recaulk.

I hope they find happiness too. They're both really great people.

It just kills me that, right now, her parents have NO IDEA of the damage they've caused. And even when they find out (if they find out), they'll never make the connection between their views and all the hurt Lisa, Matt and their two kids are experiencing. They'll probably just assume she's lost her mind and they'll pray for her.

Anyway, thanks for the hug. :hug: right back atcha.

[racaulk]

15. You're absolutely right about Lisa's parents.

They'll never fully realize the extent to which their views contributed to this awful situation. Another possibility: they may blame the volleyball coach for "converting" their daughter and will seek to scapegoat her. If so, they will no doubt demonize Lisa's new love in front of her children, which will only cause more hurt feelings and damage, hinder the healing process, and perpetuate the cycle of homophobia. Anything to keep themselves from realizing and taking ownership of their involvement in the situation. It's all so needless.

There are no easy solutions to this dilemma. My heart just goes out to Lisa. Sending positive vibes her way. :hi:

[grace0418]

17. Oh yeah, you're right. They'll probably demonize the girlfriend.

Honestly, I don't think that relationship is going to be healthy for Lisa. But my guess is that, if Lisa's parents *do* demonize her, Lisa will stay with her longer than she should just to prove them wrong.

Thanks again. I wish I could share this with Lisa, but she doesn't even know that I know yet. :(

[donco6]

14. I had a friend that had that happen too.

And it was just for that very reason.

[grace0418]

16. How did things turn out for your friend?

I'm hoping they are doing well now.

[donco6]

26. Well, he divorced his wife of many years.

It was HORRIFIC for her. I think he's actually doing a lot better. It's just sad all over the place.

[grace0418]

29. It is sad all over the place.

Was it the wife or the husband who turned out to be gay. I'm just trying to figure out who it was horrific for in that scenario.

Things just keep getting worse for Lisa and Matt. Everything that can get effed up and convoluted seems to be doing just that in the worst possible way. I spoke with Matt for an hour this morning and it broke my heart in two. I feel so bad for them.

[donco6]

30. Gay husband.

Very religious upbringing. Got married early, had not kids . . . had no SEX! Wife was late 40s when divorced, so no family for her. Very sad.

[grace0418]

31. Oh that is sad.

:(

[closeupready]

23. One of the reasons I left the Catholic Church - there is no common ground.

I can't even rationalize to myself why I can be a cafeteria Catholic. That's a bullshit argument, IMO.

If there is a God, I know he loves me and he understands my predicament, and I am at peace with that.

But I can't continue to be a member of that organization.

Best wishes for Lisa that she finds a good path forward. :hug:

[grace0418]

25. Some very liberal people I know and love (my brother included)

have found a way to reconcile their Catholic faith with their ideals. I am not one of those people. I actually get extremely agitated whenever I'm forced to sit through mass (at a wedding or something like that). I just can't handle it.

[OneBlueSky]

27. I don't think the word homophobia accurately describes what's happening . . .

on the far right, and even to some in the so-called middle . . . "phobia" means "fear of," but what virulent anti-gays are expressing has nothing to do with a fear of homosexuals or homosexuality . . . rather than fear, what they're experiencing and expressing is hatred, pure and simple . . . hatred grounded in religious beliefs, hatred grounded in ignorance, hatred grounded in listening to talk show hosts who ever so carefully explain why homosexuality is bad and, if accepted, will mean the end of civilization . . .

rather than homophobia, I prefer the hyphenated "homo-hatred," which more accurately describes the foundation of all this anti-gay stuff . . . with no more commies to rally around, the right has chosen me and others like me as the new targets for their blind hatred . . . to the extent that American politicians are actually supporting movements to execute gays in Africa, and in many cases even the judges trying hate crime perps seem to feel that their actions are somehow justified, often imposing lighter sentences than they do for jaywalkers . . .

scary shit brought to you by the troglodytes and pond scum of the far right, in all their shining glory . . .

[grace0418]

28. I agree in a general sense.

I do believe that, in the case of Lisa's parents, there is more fear than hatred. They are two people fearful of just about everything and they cling to their fundamentalist religious beliefs (they are beyond Catholic, like uber-superstitious-culty-Catholic). In some ways it's hard to blame them. What they endured in their home country during WWII would make anyone want to lock themselves in a room and never come out. But it just kills me that they fought so hard to bring their children here and give them a better life, yet their own fears and bigotry have cast such a long and terrible shadow over their family.

In the end I suppose it matters little whether such views and actions are based on fear or hatred, the end result is the same. I guess I just want to feel like there is hope that fear can be overcome, hatred is much more difficult.

But otherwise I agree with you. I feel like the divide between enlightened human beings and the nutjob-Fred-Phelps-hate-mongers is growing bigger and bigger, and that makes them even more vicious in their attacks. I can't even wrap my mind around what makes these idiots believe that gays are the cause of their problems. I utterly and truly do not understand.